Fire and Water's Whoniversary Special! On this edition of Siskoid's Mad Theories, he's joined by two even wackier professors - the Irredeemable Shagg and Nathaniel Wayne - to answer questions about Doctor Who on its 54th Anniversary, questions asked by listeners like YOU!
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Credits:
Theme: "Mad Science" by MK2.
Bonus clips: Doctor Who's "The Eleventh Hour" by Steven Moffat, starring Karen Gillen and Matt Smith; "Defending the Museum" starring Rob Shearman (from The Space Museum DVD); "E-Space Fact or Fiction?" presented by Sophie Aldred (from Full Circle DVD); "Making of The Ultimate Foe" featuring Clayton Hickman and Anthony Ainsley (The Ultimate Foe DVD); "Doctor Who Theme" (1996 version) and "Doctor Who Theme" (1974-1980 version) by Ron Grainer, arrangements by John Debney and Delia Derbyshire, respectively.
Peer review available through comments sections!
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I find it ironic that on a Dr who show my name gets used instead of my handle.
That’s because you’re only listening to the show after the D-Mat gun was fired.
LOL!
Great show, folks!
I love Shag’s Mad Theory, and I hope he gets the royalty cheque (or check) from Big Finish when they eventually borrow his Mad Theory to do a new Time War: Unbound series, featuring other actors as the Doctor as the Time Lords manipulate the timelines.
I’d totally listen to that.
From the doctor who website :
http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/article/happy-whoday-54-things-you-need-to-know-about-doctor-who
Another amazing episode of Mad Theories. Thanks so much for allowing my questions on. I just wish I had thought of more clever ones. I would honestly enjoy a spin-off of Mad Theories solely dedicated to Doctor Who questions, but I’m sure unless Siskoid can regenerate (and who says he can’t?) the show would just become too much of a strain.
So, when do we get Mad Transformers Theories with guest lecturer Prof Rob Kelly?
You can hear a lot of my mad Doctor Who theories on select episodes of Straight Outta Gallifrey, over at the Wright On Network.
Was Ultra Magnus originally Dion? Fans want to know!
Fun show fellas. I’m still a new Whovian, having come in on the tail end of Matt Smith’s run. I’ve dipped back into classic Who a bit, but not enough to really come up with any one specific question, or even a handful. Still nice to hear all of these theories to explain mysteries I’ve caught whispers of.
With this “Shada” special coming out, sounds like you guys could do a whole new Mad Theories on that!
Chris
There were already four distinct alternate versions of Shada. In addition to the 1992 VHS reconstruction with Tom Baker narrating the gaps, the last version released on DVD, the BBC relatively recently issued a novelization by Gareth Roberts, recent because Douglas Adams never wrote the Doctor Who novelizations he’d legally set aside for himself. Roberts includes a large number of references to stories that have appeared since then, up through and including The Doctor’s Wife. Until that point, the only novelization available was fan-produced and is still available online somewhere. That website describes differences between its various editions and revisions and the script itself, the current edition being the most faithful (small differences in previous editions included dropping the Roman numeral countdown and Skagra’s missing scars).
Then there’s the webcast of Shada that uses the original script as a basis for an 8th Doctor/President Romana adventure. Is is included as a DVD-ROM feature on the DVD release. The flash animation is simple, even primitive, but not unpleasant, though the re-casting of people and places can be a bit shocking. The characters look like their voice actors (presumably) who vary a great deal from the original cast. Clare is blond, Chris has a accent, Professor Chronotis has no beard, Skagra has no scar or pimp outfit, and the Think Tank is full of aliens. K9 is played by John Leeson. The Krargs have faces and the various ships and space stations have grandiose, organic sets. The Doctor and Romana are older (and in the former’s case, in a different incarnation) so some dialog has been tweaked, shared among them, etc. The biggest differences have the Doctor seek out Romana because of a memory fragment/dream he had regarding Chronotis and Cambridge, though a reason for it isn’t really given. As Gallifreyan president, Romana pardons Chronotis for his crimes at the end. The restored scenes also clarify a few things, such as the fact the Krargs are artificial creatures and how Skagra knew about Salyavin. Big Finish also issued an audio-only CD of this version, with a few more differences. Some scenes are longer, missing visuals are replaced with talkier scenes, and the Doctor’s memories include clips from Big Finish audios.
Shagg’s theory of Time War rewrites fits as well as any to explain the various Shadas, but yes, ff we look at the wider canon, how can the events of Shada have been experienced by the 4th Doctor and Romana (3 different ways) AND the 8th Doctor and President Romana (2)? The truth apparently lies in The Five Doctors, which may even provide an in-story explanation as to why the original Shada is so piecemeal. In the 20th Anniversary special, the time scoop tries to nab the Doctor and Romana off their punt at the very beginning of the story. They are trapped in a time eddy and do not get to Gallifrey like the other Doctors and companions. What if that interrupts the timeline? Events which SHOULD have happened, didn’t. Echoes have gotten back to us through the Matrix, but in fragments. Of course, history tries to mend itself and at some point these events MUST happen (or else Skagra would have spread his mind across the universe as he planned), so they intersect the Doctor’s life again during his 8th incarnation, where he MUST team up with Romana even if her circumstances have changed in order to fulfil history’s mandate. So they both happened, though the first time was wiped from existence by Borusa’s interference. The webcast/audio infers as much, though the former’s character and ship redesigns remain unexplainable. The new version of Shada could actually be a restored timeline, or the original timeline not, this time, in fragments.
I almost understood that!
You could do a Mad Theories on Old Tom Baker Doctor…and the Curator!
Chris
What is Chris talking about here? Well, I don’t know if you noticed, but the wall of the Undergallery has distinctive hexagons with circles in them… roundels? Are we perhaps in a TARDIS? In THE TARDIS? Is the curator, in fact, a future version of the Doctor who’s taken a familiar face from the first batch of regenerations, and come to give the 11th Doctor a cryptic message about his Trenzalorian destiny not being set in stone? (The other clue was the Capaldi Doctor’s participation in the climax, of course.) If so, there were four TARDISes in this scene, three of them inside another. After all, the Undergallery is a mystery. It’s a space Liz I obviously had access to, where dangerous artwork was stored, but we don’t know how she even got her hands on “Gallifrey Falls/No More”, do we? Did the Curator Doctor visit her to make sure these events happened? And if you need more evidence, there’s the fact that Liz’ letter names the Doctor as the new curator of the Undergallery. Maybe it’s a duty he didn’t take to right away, and maybe the Undergallery has been a room in the TARDIS all along (see The Invasion of Time for its first possible appearance).
Also, how will old Tom Baker fit into this version of Shada… and continuity? I’m assuming all you Whovians have seen the photo released of current Baker in the scarf and coat?
Chris
Drop in a line about the time differential, that usually gets a pass.
I recall seeing a truncated Shada presentation on Aussie TV in the 80’s somehow.
There are also two different versions of the Five Doctors. The broadcast version returns the Doctor and Romana to a later point in Shada. Where Romana shows “Doctor, come on!”” And the Doctor replies “Got it!” The special edition felt it was better continuity to return them to where they left, so we see the Doctor and Romana return to punting on the river in a scene without dialogue.
Also, the image on the Death Zone monitor is different. The broadcast has a nice hero shot of the Doctor and Romana, where as the Special Edition has a more continuity friendly shot of him on the punt, where you can’t see him very well.
The 1995 version manages to squeeze almost 10 minutes into the proceedings by restoring a few very short scenes, lines of stray dialog and decontracting the editing so that a second before and after many scenes are included. This turgid version doesn’t add very much and in exchange, saps the energy right out of it. Its new effects are a mixed bag. The new energy blasts are superior, of course, and I like how the phantoms fade away like smoke. The “black rectangle” timescoop was awful and needed replacement, but the 90s liquid metal tornado is only marginally better. I’m surprised they didn’t redo those shots for the most recent DVD release, frankly, and I hate how it now replaces the TARDIS separating in the farewell scene (even though it was nonsense). Adding sound and light distortion on Rassilon doesn’t really seem necessary, and there are a number redubs that mystify, like Doc1 suddenly getting pi’s value wrong and the change in harp music. The second Shada scene has been removed too, you’re right, which makes the slim Doc4 thread that much weaker. The better additions include the Castellan’s dialog dubbed over the bicycle bell/t-mat remote, Sarah Jane’s amusing bit where she throws a rock at Cybermen and misses, and clarifying dialog about why Susan can’t pilot the TARDIS straight to the Tower. The word I’d use to describe the “Special Edition” is “needless”.
Yeah I watched the special edition once and have tried to forget it existed
I prefer the Black Triangles to the grey swirly things, and more Tom Baker footage. In the commentary track, Terrance Dicks wonders why they think more shots of corridors make it special. I’m glad they reissued the DVD with the original version added.