JLI Podcast #32 – Justice League America #32 & Justice League Europe #8

It’s the conclusion to the JLA/JLE crossover – THE TEASDALE IMPERATIVE parts 3 & 4! Jeff Messer joins The Irredeemable Shag to discuss Justice League America #32, and then Tim Price stops by to chat about Justice League Europe #8! Can the combined might of the JLI stop this deadly virus from spreading across the world?!? We could really use these heroes right now! Plus YOUR listener feedback!

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33 responses to “JLI Podcast #32 – Justice League America #32 & Justice League Europe #8

  1. Great show, guys! I had forgotten the details of this crossover and you did a great job reminding me about an exciting arc. Jeff was an excellent guest and that Tom Prince kid has a bright future in podcasting.

    I’m sad to see JMD go as scripter. WMB wrote a really strong Flash run, but there is no magic like Giffin and JMD.

    Keep up the great work!

    Sean

    1. There’s definitely lots of magic with Giffen-DeMatteis, but the Loebs issues have some really great stuff. It’ll be interesting to see your take on them today.

      Thanks, Shawn. 😉

  2. Another great episode.

    I really enjoyed the crossover at the time and as you say it is better when you delve in. As you said it feels a little too close to home nowadays. Simon Stagg has a lot of potential parallels in the real world.

    Can’t believe I never saw Phil Collins in Teasdale but you’re so right. You pick out some of the best bits of Adam Hughes’s art. That Mr Miracle and Power Girl page is phenomenal. I think I mentioned before that Adam Hughes mentioned in an interview that Mr Miracle was his favourite JLA character and I’m sure that is why he put so much into it.

    You got the Bwah-ha-ha moment wrong on JLA. It should’ve been when Batman tells Metamorpho “You’re not being rational” and Metamorpho says “You’re standin’ there dressed in a bat-suit… An talkin’ t’me about what’s rational?” That is gold.

    You ask who is Adam Hughes’s regular inker and he really doesn’t have one on JLA. Joe Rubinstein, Art Nichols and Jose Marzan Jr pretty much rotate through his run. This is pretty unusual for the era when inkers would be pretty consistent although it’s not too jarring as both Nichols and Marzan had worked as assistants to Rubinstein.

    Whilst talking about inkers I was really disappointed that Bob Smith only did one issue of JLE as he was my favourite Sears inker although I really enjoyed the upcoming issues which were both pencilled and inked by Sears.

    The injury to Power Girl really got me in this issue. At the time I really thought they might kill her and I remember really worrying between issues. This was compounded by missing the next issue (I eventually saw issues 9&10 on sale together) so it was 2 months before I knew if she survived.

    Hearing you talking about being New to podcasts and about Dr Fate gives me a perfect opportunity to pimp my own podcast. It’s called “Should I Love This Comic?” and is me and my husband Yragael reviewing comics I love from my collection. Episode 1 is already released (link on my Twitter) and I am currently editing episode 2 and prepping episode 3 (featuring Dr Fate). It’s been a great creative outlet but I have to say Shag and pals make it look easy. I’m learning podcasting in public so I think anyone who listens will see us getting better episode by episode. It’s definitely a learning process but we’re having fun which is half the battle.

    Anyway thanks again for another distraction from the horrific hellscape that is 2020.

    1. Nearly forgot to say, you discuss connections between Spectre and JLI and I think the key one is that the last 16 issues of Spectre are edited by Andy Helfer. This is reflected in how many artists who worked on Spectre end up on JLI including Chris Wozniak, Tom Artis, Bart Sears and Tim Gula.

      1. Ooo, nice catch on the Helfer connection! I hadn’t thought about artistic links, except I did have a note that Bart Sears drew one issue of that series, but can’t remember if I mentioned it.

        How can that moment be “gold” when Booster wasn’t part of it? Just seems like science to me.

        2 months before reading issue #9? Oh man, that’s awful! I’m glad for your sake that you managed to catch it, but as I said, that was my biggest emotional moment to date in the era, so I totally sympathize.

        Good luck with your podcast! I’ll try to work it into my listening. (I’m so bad at that.)

  3. Fun show! I wonder if Teasdale’s “Nyah hah hah hah!!!” was inspired by Beany and Cecil’s stereotypical villain Dishonest John, who famously laughed “Nya-ah-ãhh!” constantly. A revival series had been aired in 1988, produced by John Kricfalusi of Ren and Stimpy fame. So the character and his laugh was back in the public consciousness for a bit.

    To me, Teasdale looks a bit like a younger Dr. Sivana with hair. Big nose, sloped brow, weak chin and an overbite. I had forgotten how this one ended. YIKES!!! It is funny, but geez, it’s gruesome.

    I miss the days when Super Heroes had space/containment suit versions of their own costumes, but Batman’s bent ears are hilarious.

    Do you think the scene with Wally in the hospital room is earned? By the Wally we’ve seen in these pages? Honestly, I wouldn’t want THAT Wally to be left alone in a room with an unconscious woman! Nice to hear he’s going to get a personality transplant beginning next issue. Even Mike Baron’s Wally wasn’t as reprehensible as the early JLE version. My only really problem with the book, then and now.

    Great guests, and great show. Nice to hear what Mr. Messer is doing to get legends like Grell back on the stands, and I’m so glad you gave poor Tim Price a chance to appear on a podcast. At least he got his one shot. Nyah hah hah hah!!!

    Chris

    1. I haven’t seen Beany and Cecil, so that’s certainly possible. I think the laugh was enough of a cartoon villain staple that it may not have a direct source. I can picture Dastardly or Snidely Whiplash or various Super-Friends villains whipping out a “Nyah-hah-hah!”

      I DO think Wally’s scene is earned. He and Kara had great chemistry in issue #3, and in his own series, he was not nearly the horndog that he’s been in JLE, so I totally believed it. But he really plays it as a Sam-and-Diane game. It’s only fun for Wally when he gets a reaction out of Kara. With her in a coma, it’s not fun anymore. I think his dialog sells this well.

      Thanks, Chris! Now that my shot is over, I guess that’s it for me and podcasting. … Wait, what?

  4. Irish embassy here, trying to promote social distancing in the various embassies. My big plan is to place Guy Gardner in the centre of the Embassy and have him pick his nose; that should keep the other JLI’ers from gathering in large groups!

    Really enjoyed the conclusion of the Teasdale Imperative – JLA 32 continued from the impressive debut of Adam Hughes and focussed both on the background to Irwin Teasdale and showed some nice character beats between members of the two teams. I wondered, when re-reading this, how Teasdale was able to walk with the zombie hordes without them turning on him, but there was a line of dialogue that said he had control over them (How he had control wasn’t elaborated on, but hey, comics!). I really enjoyed the little conversational pieces between the various teams and the Miracle/PG conversation was very well drawn and developed by both Hughes and deMatteis respectively.

    JLE8 had a great ending with the cliff-hanger as to the fate of Power Girl. I really enjoyed how the team battled with the Grey Man and while the use of both the Lords of Order and Chaos was a bit too much like the ending of Justice League 6-7, truly that was probably the only way you could end it. It was interesting to see that Spectre was the one urging some compassion in the final fate of the Grey Man at the end – nothing like what we would see from the Spectre in the later Ostrander/Mandrake run (or indeed the Fleischer/Aparo run). The offing of Irwin Teasdale was a bit of a shock – I felt he would have been a nice returning character to give Stagg trouble in the future. Indeed, the Grey Man was probably a bit too harsh in his judgement with Teasdale, who had served him well up to that point, and who was not at fault for Dmitri and J’onn snatching the serum away from the Grey Man.

    During the podcast, you mentioned how whiny Booster was in these issues. Maybe Giffen and deMatteis was seeding the discontent in Booster that would lead him to quit the team down the road? Food for thought, although other times they had seeded stuff did not go anywhere, like offering Spectre a place in the team.

    I don’t know if you had mentioned the house ad for the crossover in the podcast last time out? I remember seeing it once and really liking it – it looks like Giffen’s art in this (Unfortunately, I cannot post the picture on here but will send it to Shagg and hope he can add it in post!)

    Great podcast again with Jeff and Tim and I look forward to hearing about the Justice League movie next time out. Hope everyone is staying safe.

    1. Guy, don’t touch your face or eyes! Oh wait, they don’t say anything about your nose. Carry on.

      Very true that compassionate Spectre is rarely a thing. It might have been consistent with his current series. I’ll have to check into that.

      Hmmm, whiny Booster. I dunno, I didn’t see this as unusual enough behavior on his part to be noticeable, and JL Quarterly #1 is about 10 months away, but possible.

      I was about to say I don’t remember that house ad, but yes I do! It’s a picture of a village or something with just text describing the story. Yes, I’m remembering it as Giffen artwork. Maybe I’ll have time to look for it.

      Thanks for listening, Jimmy!

      1. I’ve just looked at that Spectre issue, #24, regarding the first appearance of Praxis, as a big Conglomerate fan, and there’s Oberon in there, but it says his name is Bug McGrew… did Doug Moench wish to use our JLI pal but was denied access, so came up with his own grey-haired dwarf?

  5. After this podcast i really like this crossover more. especially batman returning and taking control as if he were the leader (and he hadn’t dumped the group countless times, in addition to calling them idiots).
    furthermore the fact that the league is risking their lives to save a small village in europe is what makes me like it more than JLA by Grant Morrisson, they may not be gods but they care about people and risk themselves for them . isn’t that what heroes do?

  6. I have to confess that while this story sounds really good, I have a hard time taking it seriously because of the epically unimpressive name. For real, I found myself getting more and more irrationally angry every time you said “Teasdale Imperative” like that’s supposed to mean anything to anyone. Like, to the point where if I had been the editor on this book I would’ve required Giffen and DeMatteis to change the title or they wouldn’t get paid for these issues.

    Fun podcast as always, though.

    1. That’s an interesting reaction as I thought “The Teasdale Imperative” was like a James Bond title like, “Moonraker, “The Living Daylights”, or “Quantum of Solace”. I agree the title doesn’t mean anything, but it made me really interested what it DID mean and made me want to buy the issue. I’m not saying the payoff worked of who Teasdale was, but by that point, they already had my money…….

  7. Well done on another diverting episode, the boys done good.

    It’s hilarious to hear how much Shagg’s consciousness has been raised in terms of the male gays, sorry, gaze since St Jennifer Swartz-Levine took him in hand!

    Tim’s comment about the ending being a bit Monty Python sounds about right – didn’t the title sequence have a big foot squashing someone (sorry, never seen an episode)?

    You’re right Shagg, the JL was willing to die for a few hundred people. But the original Doom Patrol actually get knocked off for just a dozen or whatever, and anyway, should numbers come into it? If a hero can sacrifice themselves to save someone weaker, they should, it shouldn’t come down to ‘if I die now I won’t be able to save more people down the line’. Trust others to step up when needed.

    I’m very excited to hear that the next episode features the infamous JI TV movie and I hope you have at least one guest who enjoyed it, cos there was some fun stuff in there.

      1. No, we once had a couple of American pals of a housemate round to dinner and they went on and on about how ‘we lurve your Man-tee Py-thonnn’ and proceeded to act out favourite sketches. It was a very long evening.

        J have seen Spamalot on stage, that was great. I adore Spam fritters.

  8. Really, this crossover could have been a couple of issues. But it’s still great to see the two dysfunctional teams trying to function together.

    I never liked that PG got depowered to Golden Age Superman levels. I think she’d have been served better had she been given an entirely different power set. And to add insult to injury, her upcoming costume…yikes!!

    1. But if it had been 2 issues, I wouldn’t have had a chance to be on the podcast!

      Maybe they could’ve made PG able to turn invisible and change her appearance, maybe some mental blasts and fire wings. Wait, that sounds familiar somehow.

      I will not hear ill of PG’s next costume. No ill be heard, I say!

  9. On pg 3 of the JLE issue, Blue Beetle: “We seem to have lost our suits,” which I guess addresses what happened to the Leaguers’ PPE in the middle of the JLA book, and that’s fair. But is Beetle also quoting a line of dialogue from that movie that Guy took Tora to see, a few issues back?

  10. Impressive pod cast. Most Impressive. The cover to both these issues look great. But, HA!’s art defiantly changed as time went on. His Perez influence doesn’t over power his work., but it’s defiantly a lot more in this than his later work. That was kind of and Opps on PG and Cap lettings the gas get by them. Ah so this leads to the Super Man surgery and finding out she’;s not Krypton. Till that was fixed with a new Crissis. Glad that re set her. Should be cool to see Loeb on the comic. I liked his work on the Maxx and WW.

    Since he was helping Sam Keith on the eiler plotting of the Maxx till Sam Keth got into the grove. Should be cool to see him here. Yeah I’m trying not to laugh at Bats here. ow I see why he went back to the smaller Bat Ears. Waaait couldn’t Flash, Metamorpho, PG. Or some one create a wirld wind to get the gas away from the solders? I’ve seen people wiggle their noses all the time heck it was a big thing on Bee Witched. Not sure why it would bug Bettle. Also sad Ralf on the FLash TV show doesn’t do the nose wiggle thing. Also Their are Zombie people running around riping people in half and he’s worried about Ralph’s nose?

    I think Ralph’s nose would be the lest freeky thing right now. Also the gaint Man That looks like Richard O’Brien but, less happy would freak me out more as he runs around stomping on people. I wonder if he sings the time warp while doing that?

  11. Adam Hughes’ art is great in these issues, and IMHO, just gets better as we go.

    Regarding nose twitching, when Samantha does it: adorable. Ralph looks more like Uncle Arthur, so, creepy!

    Glad you enjoyed the show!

  12. You mentioned briefly how Flashs audience at the time did not always like his portrayal. It got me wondering, how was Guy Gardner portrayed in other books at this time? Did he have his own book? Was he less, well, difficult in other books?

    1. Good question. In the lead-up to Legends and Justice League #1, Guy regularly appeared in Green Lantern Corps, and IMHO, was even more reprehensible/almost villainous in that title, as he always fought the other GLs in his appearances there. JLI kept him as an uber-jerk, but made him part of the team.

      By this time, there was no monthly Green Lantern title, so Guy only appeared in this series with the rare guest appearance elsewhere, and they usually stayed pretty close to his characterization here. So yes, he was always difficult.

      A notable exception was Jim Starlin’s mini-series, The Weird, which came out around the time of JLI #7, where Guy was merely abrasive, and even compassionate once or twice. This was the rare exception to Guy’s portrayal in JLI/A/E. Almost out of character, but it worked for me.

      At least, that’s my recollection, FWIW.

      1. The Weird!!!!!! That hit me like a ton of bricks. I completely forgot about that series but as soon as I saw your comment, all those house ads came back to me. When does the F&W Network start The Weird podcast?

  13. Well done, everyone, on a great episode! Jeff Messer was great with his writing experience and I think this Tim might have future as podcast guest if anyone else would ever give him a chance. Perhaps they could get his personal bodyguard, Time Priest? The Canadian Embassy has been pretty empty these days so this was a great episode to lift the spirits. I hope everyone is staying safe and staying healthy!

    Adam Hughes is the reason why I kept on collecting JLA. The reason I loved the humour on this series, and why I thought it worked so well, is the the facial expressions of Maguire, Templeton, and Hughes. Like Shag pointed out, that panel of Blue Beetle squinting is just perfect. That’s not to say that JMDeM and Giffen couldn’t do some powerful, emotional beats like the PowerGirl/Flash scene at the end of JLE, but it’s the humour that brought me in to the book and so it helped to have an artist that could convey that humour.

    Also, Power Girl’s next costume is what I consider the “mom jeans” of costumes. Still better than her third costume!

    I really enjoyed the excitement and enjoyment you guys had in these 30-year-old(!) comics. I’m looking forward to, well, not the next episode, but the episode after. Island Life! Keep up the great work!

    1. “Get his personal bodyguard, Time Priest? The Canadian Embassy has been pretty empty these days.” ROFL! Thank you, MIke! I needed that!

  14. I liked seeing the two teams interacting and there are many fun moments throughout. As many have noted, the artwork is spectacular. I feel the story could’ve been better. For one thing, a lot of people die because Power Girl and Captain Atom float around like doofuses and watch the gas canister fly between them. It’s fine to have Teasdale launch his canister, but I’d have loved our heroes not to look stupid in the process. Captain Atom rightfully berates himself for it and Batman of all people assuages the guilt, which is pretty out of character. If anything, Bats should’ve been chewing him out for incompetence.

    You guys noticed that the ending is a complete deux ex machina and harkens back, not in a good way, to JLI #7. There seemed to be a tendency on the part of these writers….as much as I love their work…to write their heroes into a corner. It happened with the Apokolips story with Darkseid arriving to stop the battle and it happens again with the Extremists. I think this era would’ve been more fondly remembered if the characters got to use their own powers and ingenuity to save the day more often. Just my two cents. :)

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