Andy Kapellusch joins The Irredeemable Shag to chat about Justice League America #46! The General Glory saga begins! Guy Gardner attends a comic book convention and we find out exactly what he thinks of collectors! Then Dr. Jennifer Swartz-Levine stops by to discuss Justice League Europe #22! Power Girl's cat is kidnapped... feel sorry for the catnappers! Plus, we tackle the depiction of Power Girl as a feminist in the JLE. Finally, we wrap up with YOUR listener feedback!
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41 responses to “JLI Podcast #46 – Justice League America #46 & Justice League Europe #22”
Hi Shag, I managed to miss commenting on the last couple of episodes but I’m going to get in early on this episode so that I can’t forget.
Let’s start with the first part of the General Glory story – I love this one and it’s mainly down to Linda Medley’s phenomenal artwork. She really does the most fantastic facial expressions. She is up there with Kevin Maguire when it comes to characterisation. She can do a fantastic set piece like the bazooka scene at the old people’s home but is also great at giving life to the background characters. This is most pronounced in the comic convention scenes. There is a real truth to the geeks in the background. You know you could get a great episode of Once Upon a Geek out of interviewing each of them. They’re so real. There are so many great Easter Eggs throughout. I loved seeing a grinning JM DeMatteis looking through a longbox on page 12 and I’m pretty sure that same panel features Arthur Adams (before his hair left) sat behind a table with his portfolio open. Linda Medley was definitely a friend of Adams, he inked her pin-up in Action 600 and she coloured Monkeyman and O’Brien so he’s a face she’d know. At the auction I think the auctioneer could be intended to be Paul Levitz and the front row features Guy Gardner sat next to Bob Lappan (blond with glasses) and Linda herself is definitely the woman in the Metal Men t-shirt. The bearded guy next to Guy could be a mis-coloured Adam Hughes (his hair is more sandy than brown). I’m pretty sure we also see Kevin Maguire on page 17. I’m sure if I had met more JLI creators I would recognise more. I love it when comics’ artists put each other into their artwork. It’s so fun.
There is a surprising amount of deeper content in this issue. There is a true sadness to the depiction of Joe Jones having to move around to avoid his archenemy, never quite managing to settle anywhere. Maybe it’s just my arthritis talking, but a lonely old age seems like the saddest possible end. You dream of ending up surrounded by loved ones in your dotage and it seems so sad. The other emotional page for me is when Guy Gardner is thinking about comic collecting. The line “they made me happy when everything else was making me miserable” really resonates with me. JM has such a talent for getting to the heart of things. It’s so good.
The reason that I love the General Glory story so much is the true joy behind the parody. It is clear that both Giffen and DeMatteis truly love the Golden Age characters, creators and fans. In particular their love for the Simon/Kirby Cap and the original C.C. Beck Captain Marvel. There is no sneering at the source material. Which for me is too often a huge part of parodies.
Onto JLE I don’t think I could ever express how much I dislike the depiction of England in these issues. The accents are truly offensive. The overall story is fine (maybe a little too much fog but Americans seem to think that London is constantly blanketed in a layer of fog) but the dialogue is terrible. I know that my impression of the dialogue is probably inevitably coloured by how I feel about the writer but it is bad.
The discussion about the intersection between Kara and feminism was very interesting. In many ways I think you were incredibly kind to her portrayal. It doesn’t surprise me that an abuser was unable to write a fully engaged feminist as in order to abuse you must have a lack of empathy for anyone beyond yourself.
As ever, I love the podcast and am so grateful for the hard work you put into it.
YES! I can’t wait for someone – ANYone, even Let’s Roll opponent Andy Kapellusch – to figure out what humor mag/comic/movie poster JLA’s cover is referring to. Like Shagg, I’m convinced I’ve seen the image before.
Those British accents make my poor eyes bleed, though to be fair there is a portion of the population that talk like that. And I hope Selina doesn’t find out that Bruce refused to help find a missing cat!
Y’know I love me a Kara discussion, I can’t comment on the stuff between Crisis and her ’09 series, it’s a blind spot I’m slowly working my way through, but I do know a little about the earlier stuff. As I understand it her boob stayed more or less the same size, but the boob window got bigger till someone notices around All-Star’s #64 when it’s just gone. They also begin to soften Kara around her appearances in Showcase (#97-99) with her just feeling out of place not being from Earth-2 and all, so by the time of Inifnity Inc she playing the big Auntie type of role. The appearance of her life partner Huntress at this time helped tremendously on this as well. It could have been a nice call back what with her (*urgh*) sudden Atleanean origins but alas they didn’t choose to go for any of that 🙁
Though how could I not love an episode with Stinky? I recently discovered that according to DC Retroactive, which I’m sure is on the list, it’s revealed that the cat’s name is Theodore. Much to the assumement of the rest of the JLA that she’s called the cat “Ted”!
Oh and if you want a decent depiction of a competent Power Girl. The last run of World Finest (2012) at least starts with a suitably capable Kara!
I just read that WF series last year and enjoyed both Kara’s and Helena’s depictions in it.
That series was a highlight of the new 52 for me. *Loved* that World’s Finest Series.
Jenny was a keynote speaker at our BGSU Batman conference & she certainly knows her stuff. It was great to listen to your enlightening conversation on Power Girl. Bravo!
Thanks, Chuck! That conference was so much fun. And the Pop Culture Library at BGSU is a must see!
I’m a BGSU grad and I got to work in the pop culture library for a time. It is indeed an awesome place! I read many a comic book there in my undergrad days.
If we’re looking at a British show for this one definitely think it’s grabbing from Only Fools and Horses
One of the things that people forget is that Marshall Rogers had very recently worked on Batman when he did these issues of JLE. Rogers, along with an uncredited Max Allan Collins, launched the Batman newspaper strip in late 1989 and did the first arc before being replaced by William Messners-Loebs and Carmine Infantino in early 1990. Sadly, I don’t believe these strips have ever been reprinted in the US.
I always liked the character of General Glory but part of me always was resigned to the fact that he was a wildly obvious riff on Captain America and as such, he had a limited shelf life due to legal constraints (we’re never going to get a General Glory Movie) That being said, as a long time player of DC Universe Online, I have a number of characters who keep the Good General’s likeness in their bases as an homage to either his tenure in the Justice League, his role as a hero of the War years or even as simply the poster boy for the comic book /graphic novel section of a library!
Uhm…..Shagg…..not really loving what King has done in the latest issue of Human Target.
I packed in with #5, enough is enough. I have heard about #6. Ugh.
I think plugging the series was initially a good idea, but at this point it simply contains the likenesses of JLI characters, not our beloved heroes.
Actually Shagg, did you know we’re several months into a cracking Martian Manhunter serial in Action Comics? I’d mention that!
Impressive podcast most impresses. It’s probably from that Nintendo power magazine. I never they’re having a picture of some kids reading a magazine like this that I think said to do on it with his hair sticking out like that. Any rate it’s a good cover. I wonder if the photo that general glory is looking at is of Peggy Carter. Well this worlds version of her. The spy versus spy but it was kind of funny. Though I’m pretty sure this Nazi guy trying to kill him disappears pretty soon. Though I am pretty certain the character John Sina is playing in the peacemaker TV show is based somewhat on Guy Gardner from these years. And of course the Bea Smith run on Guy Gardner’s solo series. They don’t completely hide the oreo logo on the cookies that John is carrying. Since there is a second printing of that typography on the packet of cookie she’s carrying. This was followed before they were told to stop with me had to change the name of the cookies. That actually looks like a small line compared to someone Degen seems here. And those are just comic is not one that are three things in one. The art style that is decent enough. Deftly a very cartoony style compared to what it was used to. I think that’s probably what caused the floor. It’s a very good style, but going from one to the other extreme could be a bit jarring.
Joseph reading the words that transformed him back into general glory at the end is kind of cool. The expressions in this story are very well done. And deftly think the artist cartoony style. Guys saying holy moly is slightly shocking. Guys just wearing a black T-shirt and jeans. The where they fit him is well how they would send a comic book character. There is nothing my team about that particular outfit. Well since Joseph said he’ll reimburse guy for the price of the comic he doesn’t have to worry about having to repay the league funds. So it’s a win-win.
On to the next comic. I can understand our girls reaction in this comic. I would definitely be tested someone took my pet. I’m not sure why Rogers style doesn’t work in this issue. But if you are going through some stuff that makes sense. The architecture is still great. Not surprising since that’s where he got his start. I’m not so sure I would want to see the JLE. In a different country like Brazil on the likes. Look at how much trouble they are having pretraining British people. And how bad they were at writing French people. Do you really want to see them try to do a Brazilian accent? Or Spanish? They could get very bad very quickly. I love the creative team on this comic. But they’re not greedy capturing accents. Yet look again at the way that cats lifting his leg that’s not the pose an animal has thereabouts. He was almost cleaning himself. That’s kind of the pose a cat strikes with her doing that not when there urinating. He would get it all over his firm the way sitting. Completely removes the point of raising ones leg. It is slightly disappointing that the league don’t want to help more.
But, I guess they have people they have to save and what not. The people spying on her is kind of fun. The information broker bit does kind work here. I’m guessing Brad Meltzer read this comic. And may have been subconsciously influenced by it when doing what he did for the calculator. I am kind of surprised that doesn’t help. After all if you lost ace the bathhouse he probably put out a couple feet world map out for him. But, this is before ace return. So who knows? It is kind of fun that all of England that seems to be getting behind this whole cat napping thing. All except the heroes. It is a horrible cat but still he matters to power girl. I like crimson foxes outfit. But it does look a little old timey. Not sure to many people would avoid that 80s. Still it looks cool. And I like to point out that this was written in the 90s but it was the early 90s. The ending where power girl gets her Mac is kind of cool. And kind of funny that all the bad guys get to see is the Drinking out of the toilet. I am mainly a dog person but I’ve had a few pet cats. So I can relate to some of this. Dr. Levine is right. They definitely screwed up her character. I mean at least she’s not calling people boy chick anymore.
Which was something she did in her JSa run. But, yeah the characterization of her got worse after this creative team left. The diet soda thing sounds terrible. To be honest though I only picked up an issue here is there. One where fire was the leader of the team. I think or maybe wonder woman was. At any rate she was dating Adam smasher at the time. And they thought I should come back to life. It turned out to be the other Ice. I’m kind of glad they changed up Dr. light’s personality. Also are we sure that that’s the way Japanese culture treated women? Or is that the way we were told they treated women in Japan here in the US? I’ve met a few people when I was in college that have been from other countries. And some of the things we’ve been led to believe is not been exactly accurate. Though I can’t say for certain. At any rate I can understand her having to push to get herself noticed in business. It’s unfortunate but from time to time it does happen.
Though I am glad that her personality light. And some repair work was done to power girl’s personality. I liked the James Palmiotti, Gray and Amanda Conner run on her character. And when the earth 2 version of her was teamed up with that version of the huntress. For the miniseries. I guess the second earth 2. Since of this version was of the original continuities earth 2. Before that was destroyed by crisis and then re-created by infinity crisis as a new earth to with a new power girl. I am sure glad they made crisis to decrease the confusion. That was so much more streamlined wasn’t it? I to have a print of power girl. That I keep on my wall next to a print I have of batgirl, the Crow, andOld School She_Ra. (NOt the Net Flex thing. ew.) You are your guest or deftly right she was handled poorly. By a writer who didn’t seem to understand how to write her. Sadly this happened to a lots of different characters. See with that don’t run did to obsidian. Let’s just say there was a reason Graham Morris came in and saved it from what it had become. JSA classified stuff wasn’t too bad either.
When she returned to the JSA a lot of rebuilding her as a character had already happened. But, sadly as you both pointed out. In the JLE run as well as JLA for a while she was not treated as well as she could of been. Maybe if she had stayed with the infinity Inc. Roy Thomas would’ve been able to flesh her out better as a character. Then again who knows. When your secret ADHD at one point was Karen Starr rich computer entrepreneur. And people mostly remember you for a chip on your shoulder and your build. There is something definitely done wrong with the writing. Her, beetle and Obvron. Should have been discussing tech. She could’ve at least brought in people who knew about it from her job. To maybe fix certain GLA computers and whatnot. Instead of her doing the “feminist rhetoric “every second they got.
Too much potential of the character as a person was wasted upon just having her there to say hey I should be treated better. Which becomes a stereotype and completely destroys the character. That is the problem that doesn’t persist into modern-day SJW style writing. That hit heavily with power girl at this time. I’ll make a simple review. Who is Karen Starr? Let’s compare to others. Crimson foxes to sisters. They own a business. Their venting something. That a hero of their city. Everyone believes it to be one person. Huntress is either the daughter of Batman or the daughter of a mob boss. Who saw one or both of her parents brutally murdered. Who put herself to becoming perfection as a fighter. Learning great detective skills. Has a job either as a attorney or a teacher. Has an interesting love life with either Dick Grayson or Cat Man. Fire can use her sexuality to give get what she wants. Is smarter than she appears. His best friends with ice. Gets a good job as a government person first the global guardians and later for checkmate.
Catherine C. runs the European organization of the justice league. Is in love with Capt. Adam. Has a decent fashion sense. Can be best friends with Sue Gibney. Works well with the other members of this team. Can feel overwhelmed at her job but loves it and will do the best she can to make it work. I could go on but let’s just say Karen Starr is annoyed at the way men look at her and owns a…. cat. I think we got a point out here one of these people is not like the others one of these people doesn’t belong. In one miniseries of heroes for hire Palmiotti and Gray gave misty night and Colleen wing more personality than power girl has had her entire time here. I’d even though she owned a computer company until I looked it up online. The earth 2. Version of her uses her powers to get a bunch of diamonds to teach yourself would like to stuff to open a bunch of different companies to get a successful business career going. Falls in love with Mr. terrific. Is best friends with the huntress. Owns her sexuality and while probably not this version of Karen Star at all has a personality of her own. To the point where no one even calls her in this comic Karen they keep calling her Kara.
So the reason she’s not like by the fans is what you got? A stereotype. We don’t know anything about her personality except that she’s a “feminist” and shield the cat. What is the own a computer company? What is the reason she got an interest in that? Who were friends which is not power girl? I’m sure at this point all of that can be answered because people after this series of actually done things with her. Instead of what we need to help plan for the series. Who can be that part? I know. Or the straight man for everyone else’s comedy bits. Oh wait I forgot that oh so important bit of her personality she drinks diet sodas. This clearly can see her walking around them while John is walking around with his cookies. You can go one panel without seeing…oh wait. No mention of them anywhere no drawing of the many where does that later issue where the writer decides to jump on a soapbox. Which really does more harm than good for Kara. And now I see that she became a computer programmer because of the purple Ray. Not hanging out with her friend the huntress. And being around the back computer. Not the Fortress of solitude working with her Cuz. Nope she was hit by the purple Ray.
What a great deal of effort she put out there to make her career happen. She stood in front of her Ray. Feminist icon power girl. Stuff like this is why she is remembered for her personality issue and her build. Because till after the JSA and I’m talking the Geoff Johns run she was too like a stereotype. So yeah sorry. But this is the type of writing that happened in the past it happens now to where they forget to create an interesting character and just focus two in on one point. Which of course kills the character. At any rate cool podcast can’t wait to hear the next one. As sad as it is I am glad they did something with her here even if it is just showing that she wants her cat.
I’m one of those people who have always thought General Glory was a bridge too far. Still do. Is it funny? Yes. Is it a fun love letter to the Golden Age of comics? Yes? Does it belong in a Justice League comic, taking up five issues and leaving the character a member of the team? In my opinion, no. This is when JLA becomes a full on humor mag in my opinion, and maybe Linda Medley’s art is part of it. It looks great, but it’s kind of “bigfoot” you know? If Hughes or Maguire had drawn this, and at least partially grounded it in reality, I probably would have accepted it. The combination of the art and the concept are just too out there, even for this version of the League….again in my opinion. If this had been put out in a General Glory mini-series, or maybe an extra-sized one-shot, guest-starring Guy and the JLI, I probably would have accepted it. I probably would have even liked it! As it stands now, it reminds me a bit of Hero Hotline. It’s all about the packaging, and the book it’s taking place in for me.
I had no idea Marshall Rogers drew Batman in this issue of JLE, because I had dropped the book at this point. I need to find this now, just for those few panels!
I’m glad Jennifer brought up the “B” word in regards to how Power Girl was often portrayed. I was saying it in my head, but I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable saying it out loud. The discussion was fascinating. I’d argue no one has known what to do with Kara (I always say Care-Ah, myself) since the JSA run in All-Star Comics/Adventure folded, at least until Johns and Connor/Palmiotti series took control of the character. I was unaware of the horrid diet soda explanation, but then there’s that weird pregnancy bit that came and went too around Zero Hour, and I believe that’s all by the writer who shall remain nameless, so we can all blame it on him.
That weird pregnancy thing. UGH. Don’t remind me. I had forgotten about the diet soda issue, but I can never ever forget that weird pregnancy thing for Kara.
Count me in as someone who actually liked General Glory. His can-do attitude, his endless pontificating and speechifying, the sharing of anecdotes, calling J’onn “Skipper”…all of it was amusing. And the whole premise was very creative. I don’t really have a problem with GG being inserted into the golden age bc tons of characters have been inserted into the golden age (looking at you, Union Jack and Spitfire!). I think what was a little too far was this being a 5-month story, culminating in a double sized issue. I’m not sure this story, while fun, warranted that much real estate. And the General joining the team? A jokey character like the General should’ve been an occasional guest star only, especially when you consider how the letters pages were filled with requests for established characters to be added to the JLA.
On another note, it is occurring to me that I used to call one of my old bosses “Skipper” and though I didn’t realize it at the time, it was inspired by General Glory! Holy moley!
As for JLE, I wonder if Mr. Bigger and his data gathering organization were used anywhere else? The comparison to Oracle and Calculator is spot on.
For another variation on the National Lampoon cover, check out this Marvel house ad form the 1980s. I never read the comic and I have no idea what it’s about, but I immediately thought of it when I heard the podcast. https://house-ads.tumblr.com/page/2
You may have to scroll down to see it.
How far Jason, I scrolled down three pages?
He means at the top. Ware a guy is pointing a gun at a coyote saying buy this book. Or I shot this cayote. I think.
Oh that, yes, sorry. I was thinking I was looking for the blowing hair. Cheers Liz!
Cheers for another fine episode featuring three very personable and informed folks.
Regarding the JLA issue, count me as another General Glory fan, I love his throwback design, with the stocky physique and cheesy grin. And his personality is pure charm. I was fine with him joining the team, he was an entirely different flavour of hero, and looked amazing in group shots. Five issues was a bit much for his opening story, though, as several people have said.
I really like the art by Linda Medley, it’d have been good for her to have stuck around awhile. She did an especially great job making Joe look like a proper old gent, just look at his wrinkles and sunken mouth.
I think you missed the pun in the auction house name – Northbys = Sothebys.
I honestly don’t see what Andy sees sees as ‘Tom of Finland’ about Guy’s outfit, it just looks like what a lot of men wear, whatever their interests – leather jacket, jeans, tee shirt, but not with a particular gay spin (sadly). Once we get into the Nineties and the Age of Straps, we’re getting into Tom territory.
As for JLE, well done to Jennifer on knowing that here was a National Lampoon homage, I didn’t. I don’t even know who Bill the Cat is… well, I do know, I looked it up.
I like silly stories, but it’s probably bad that both comics this month were lighthearted issues without a supervillain battle in sight – remember the original idea behind Justice League Europe? This should be a mostly serious book with occasional gags, while JLA should have the opposite balance.
That atmospheric page with Metamorpho and Foxy in the fog is indeed wonderful, but again, as Damien agrees, we don’t have peasoupers in London. The US-set comics aren’t full of ancient cliches, why does the UK, France and Russia have to suffer so?
Now Shagg, you appealed to me to enlighten you as to who Jonny and Robin might be based on, sitcom wise. Sorry, I got nothing. Someone suggested Only Fools and Horses but the two chaps here are far too middle class, and Rodney and Del Boy weren’t outfight crooks, just dodgy.
I loved the Power Girl discussion led by Jenny, I remember that at the time the diet soda business came in it felt like the writer was trying to course correct Peege’s too-cranky personality with a quick fix, and if you accept that pop was causing the problem, bringing in the formerly bad-tempered Dr Light made sense. But why did the problem have to solely affect super-powered women? That’s the original sin here.
And please stay my pal, Shagg, I don’t hate plushes, just the fact that Woodstock brought nothing to the Peanuts strip. The cartoon peaked in 1968 with clever, personality-filled strip after clever, personality-filled strip, then Woodstock was named and began hogging the feature. Most Woodstock Peanuts strips are three silent panels of him floating in the air, followed by some comment from Snoopy that’s random and unfunny. Admit it, Woodstock is the Hostess Twinkies of comic strip ‘characters’.
Well done everyone! Another great show with great guests again! It was great to hear Jennifer’s amazing perspective on Power Girl. The Pacific Canadian Embassy transporter has thawed out but now is full of water so I’m a little behind on commenting, but here we go….
JLA – It’s amazing to see how far Linda Medley’s style has come along since the JLE issue, which wasn’t that long ago. I was on the fence when I first saw her artwork back in the day, but looking at it now, I really like it! I love her great expression work which harkens back to Maguire/Hughes/etc.. I love how she pictured Mr.Schmidt,…uh, I mean, Mr. Smith being blasted off his feet from the kickback of the Kirby Cannon ™.
Put me in the group that likes General Glory. Captain America never really spoke to me (maybe because I’m Canadian) so I enjoyed how General Glory gently poked fun at Cap and his “rah-rah” Americanism. Then again, I completely missed the allegory of the Extremists to the Marvel villains, so maybe I need my parodies to be incredibly explicit and in your face to “get” it. I wasn’t a smart kid! I do agree with other commentators, though, that the storyline probably didn’t need to be a 5-parter. But maybe it was just softening us up for 13-part Breakdowns!
JLE – As mentioned above, I really enjoyed your conversation about Kara. Both of you made me understand how Kara was being written negatively. I always feel like I learn something (and be a better person!) every time Jennifer is on the show! Thanks, Doc!
As for the issue, I wish I had picked this one up at the time because of the humour. As mentioned before, because Europe was more of the “serious” comic, I drifted away from it. But if I this was becoming more of Bwa-ha-ha? I would have rushed to the drugstore to get it! Kara’s cat is great and I am really getting a Bill the Cat vibe from it.
Well done again, everyone! Keep up the great work!
I’m divided by the art of JLAmerica Joe Jones and Schimidt looks really good, also L-ron and Max, but the white eyes on Martian Manhuntter don’t work for me, when General Glory arises, the trace does not please me either. Despite everything I love General Glory this is the perfect character to appear in Legends of Tomorrow, with the same origin story.
re: General Glory-I’m rather disappointed no one has pointed the connection to MarvelMan, nee MiracleMan. When the character was revived in the 1980s, the starting premise was an aging ex-hero who had forgotten his magic word!
re: Power Girl – thanks for the great discussion. I think that the underlying problem of Power Girl in this series is: her “Power” is undefined! What can Power Girl do? When was the last time she DID anything? Over the course of the series, DC has de-Kryptoned her, and de-powered her. Is she still strong? How strong? Can she fly? Can she leap over buildings? DOes she have X-ray vision? What the hell is her “power?” Where JLA-I-E writers were able to craft distinct personalities, even if they differed from their solo books, for Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Flash, Manhunter, etc., no one at DC knew what to do with Power Girl or what she could or could not do. They all went the easy route and simply wrote her as “angry woman.”
Power Girl, pre-Crisis, certainly showed her anger often. Mostly out of frustration. Power Girl is a good teammate, but not a leader. She was never one to have solutions, or encourage others, etc. She would not have been a good boss! There were many characters in the JSA like that, though. Not everyone is Helena Wayne. She’s been in Europe since the start of the book, has no other identity, and has done very little to show her power. What a waste of potential.
To be fair that happened to Power Girl a lot even in the pre-Crisis age. I guess the original idea was for her to grow into her powers, like OG Supes, hence her jumping around rather than flying. But writers tended to forget and she would just be the sassy muscle for the team!
Ooops, looks like I listened and forgot to come here and comment (I know you missed me).
First, kudos to Dr Jen, who never fails to elevate the podcast. Loved her insights and I was wondering if there is a parallel between the “angry female/feminist” and the “angry black young man/woman” tropes. Both seem to point that any minority expressing their needs is necessarily angry and unacceptable.
Something I’d would like to see explored in some form (maybe to explore myself?) is the attraction that PG has to gay men. There is the ‘strong female character’ thing, of course, but I believe it goes even further with Kara. Oh, and BTW, Dr Jen’s chosen One Punch deserved the win.
Regarding the move to England and the overabundance of (bad) English accents and slang, I wonder how much of it was a comment on the then concurrent British Invasion at DC. We are talking Morrison and Gaiman taking the spotlight alongside the established Moore…
And finally, the General Glory thing, yeah, for me it was the last straw. I mean, cute idea, but a five-issue saga? and then keeping him recurrent? Nope. Unfortunately, for me, this is where the title jumps the shark. Breakdowns had some moments, but the art was usually ugh and there was no need for it to run 13 issues. I still bought and read, but nope.
Fortunately we still have the Starro saga in JLE, with some of the best Sears art on this title.
Thanks, Gus! I think you’re absolutely right about the parallels you raise.
Another great discussion! It was a fun listen as always. Let’s see, do I have thoughts? Why yes.
JLA #46: When I first read this story, I was all in with General Glory, to the point of being a Glory-apologist. I do wonder if that point of view will hold up. But for this issue, I found myself thinking, “it would be hilarious to have a superhero that talked like old Joe Jones all the time.” His dialog was some of the best in this story. I know it’s over, but gosh, can you picture Joe giving the ol’ codger talk to Orion?
While the arc is 5 issues, I do believe there’s lengthy side stories as well, so it’s not all-glory-all-the-time. Like that name drop of Mr Miracle in this issue. Hey wait, didn’t Oberon just leave last issue? Heh-heh!
JLE #22: Any story featuring Stinky the cat was flea-bitten gold. The creative team really enjoyed this tiny terror.
But, I have not enjoyed Roger’s artwork for the Leaguers. I’ve liked his other work, and shortly after this, he does an amazing stint on Silver Surfer. But in these issues, I just do not like it. But that’s been amply covered, so enough about that.
I’ve stated before how I never bought the “serious story” mission statement for JLE, any more than JLA was the “funny book”. They both had stories across the spectrum as the mood struck, and I went along for the ride.
Great to hear Andy, and of course, our superstar Dr Jenny!
Ha! You all are so good for my ego! I swear I’m going to link to this discussion thread for my next review! Seriously, though, thanks gang. This is such a warm and welcoming place.
There could be a whole podcast line here: Jenny and Water, Gimme That Star Jenny, and of course, Who’s Jenny.
You forgot the best one – the J(enny)LI Bwah-Ha-Ha podcast!
Don’t we already have that?
Dare I say…Bwah-Ha-Ha to all of these suggestions? I think I’m going to get t-shirts made!
Total stab in the dark, but could our two catnappers, Robin and Johnny, be a nod to Robin Hood and Little John, two of England’s most famous thieves?
Regardless, thank you for another incredible episode. It was great to hear from Andy and the good doctor.
I was thinking the same thing Brian. As soon as I heard “Robin and Johnny” must be referring to something English, I immediately went to Robin Hood and Little John.
Before I read anyone else’s comments, I’d like to leave my own…
So, this was the first time I’ve actually read through an issue prior to listening to the episode. 45+ issues, never picked one up. But with the hype you’ve given to this episode, I couldn’t pass up the idea of reading this without any recap or opinions.
It was…okay? It was fine. I don’t recall being super excited or hooked by the end reveal 30 years ago, and I’m not necessarily hooked now. But, I am interested to see where this goes, and how it plays out. I have almost no memory of the storyline, so let’s just see where it takes us.
As for the JLE issue – when is the “Jenny talks Power Girl” podcast happening? Because her insights on Kara are amazing. I’m a lifelong fan of Kara – since pre-Crisis. One of my very first DC Comics ever was Crisis on Earth-Prime off the stands, and immediately fell for Kara. Not in a sexualized way, despite being twelve. It was her whole concept – as you said this episode Shag, this is an older version of Supergirl. I loved the concept of her arriving much later on Earth-2 than Kal-L.
I thought Jenny’s views were spot on. I remember really enjoying that Paul Kupperberg mini series, and was excited when she joined the JLE. I was always interested in how she and our new Superman interacted, while she believed she was Kryptonian, and was sad that it was really never addressed in a story. I wasn’t happy with the Atlantean retcon of her origin, but I still was a fan of the character regardless.
I was always disappointed with how Kara was written in these later issues of JLE. The writer of this issue, is also the writer of those other issues Jenny mentioned. I think we’ve got a clear picture of his taken on women in comics, and that’s all I’ll say about that.
Let me end by saying I love the feedback part of the show, and always listen, so if you’re not listening, then you’re not going to hear me say “boo to you!” Thanks for another great episode.
Irish Embassy calling – sorry for the absence in commenting but when the JLE Embassy in Paris exploded, I immediately set about preparing the Irish Embassy for the arrival of the JLE, because I thought, in my wisdom, that of course Maxwell Lord would insist that they come here. I spent ages decorating the Embassy, getting Jack O’Lantern to buy loads of Three Stooges videos for Rex and importing tons of food for the Flash’s needs…..
….only to discover they moved to London! Gahhh!
JLA 46 was a very fun read. I am very much in the General Glory camp and think he is a great addition to the team and was able to counteract Guy’s actions for a time thereafter. A few years after the Bwa-ha-ha run of JLI, the JL Quarterly did a General Glory centric issue (written entirely by Paul Kupperberg) where Glory’s stories are told in the Golden Age, Silver Age story (drawn by Curt Swan!), a Dark Knight pastiche, and an Image parody which was very entertaining.
JLE 22 was a cute story as well. As you and Dr. Jennifer were talking about it, I had a sudden brainwave that Stinky the Cat was now the second iconic cat Marshall Rodgers has drawn, after the Jokerfied cat from the Laughing Fish story. He must have loved doing Stinky as there is a number of one page tales of Stinky in a future version of Justice League Quarterly (issue 3 or 4 I believe).
The Power Girl discussion was very entertaining and Dr. Jennifer led a great discussion into the character. You were asking was Power Girl turning up in the comics and she is appearing in the One Star Squadron mini-series which is not a great vehicle for her in my opinion.
Looking forward to hearing the next episode.
Woo look at that I’m only 6 months behind now. So exciting to almost catch up since the new episode drops on ….. TODAY? I had it all planned out for Sunday One episode a day till then… Damn it Shag!
Anyway back to this excellent episode and indeed the ongoing discussion over Power Girl. I’m of the opinion that DC completely screwed up Power Girl after the Crisis. I love Kara (one of my daughters is called Kara) and I’ve been a PG not a SG fan over the years because I always felt PG was trying to fill in for an aging Superman of Earth 2 and felt the responsibility more than Supergirl did as she was technically older than Superman. Also because the heroes of the JSA were older (and exclusively men when the JSA formed) I always felt they were a bit more old fashioned in their attitudes towards women and that perhaps influenced Kara’s personality. At least thats what I thought, but it turns out it was “Diet Soda?” look I get additives in Soda can impact mood swings, food in general can influence mood – but in this case only superpowered women get affected and it’s ALL THE TIME?
I hate to point this out but I’ve always felt the scripter of this issue never had a good handle on women and often projected what he thought women could be like rather than observing and trying to write realistic women. I seem to recall a whole arc in later JLA (I think it was JLA by that time) over the death of Ice and then Ice Maiden coming back and how that impacted Fire… that didn’t sit well with me at the time, not because of the concepts it was introducing but in the way it was handled – it read like a projected fantasy of a man about how two attractive women might interact. And then there is the whole Power Girl pregnancy which ….. I can’t actually stomach at all. I honestly don’t recall if I still have those later issues of JLA or if they went in the purge – but unlike the Bwah-ha-ha-ha Era or the Jurgen’s era I have ZERO interest in returning to read that period.
Indeed looking back to the 90s and there is a lot of the extreme era that I am glad has been retconned out. I’m still frustrated with Armageddon 2001 which effectively was tried to be retconned by Zero Hour which of course was then retconned by Countdown…. Man the 90s and that ONE 1-800 line with Comic “secrets” spoiling Armageddon 2001 has had SUCH a butterfly effect on DC it’s crazy.
So in summary Power Girl in the 90s was bad.