The premier episode of JSA IN THE 90s — a podcast dedicated to exploring the Justice Society comics published during the extreme 1990s! This episode your host, The Irredeemable Shag, kicks things off discussing the mission of the podcast, his own personal history with the JSA, and why the 90s was a great decade for the team!
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Much love for you Shag. Never hate! But without Roy Thomas, there is no Wolverine. Imagine how difficult pop culture and comics would be! He said, “Make a Canadian superhero named Wolverine who is short and incredibly fierce.” Without that starting point, you don’t have the world we live in today. And a Firebrand series form the 90s?! How did I ever miss that?! Oh, never mind. I just looked it up. There’s a dodged bullet. Can’t wait for Episode 1. Keep ‘Em Flying!
Shag great start of the episode!
I decided to drop the sign to give my own secret origin regarding my phantom of the JSA
Back in 1990 I was moving from Connecticut to Long Island. I was a Junior in High School and as well known comic book geek, I was not very popular.
I was really dreading moving to the new school as I was firml;y convinced that my popularity would not improve and that I was trading known adversaries for unknown ones.
The only good news about this move (at the time) was that there was a comic shop right there in Port Jefferson..
Around the time of my move a book had come out from DC called the Greatest Golden Age stories ever told.
Now I was already a fan of the World War II era through films and television (the Indiana Jones films and Tales of the Gold Monkey being two examples as well as older films from the period like Casablanca)
So as I was already starting to slowly re-immerse myself, in Superhero comics already, adding another layer was easy.
Less than a year later, I was reading the Justice Society Miniseries as well as seeing them referenced in various older comics. Plus I was wearing out my Greatest Golden Age stories book. A year later we got the return of the JSA in Armageddon: Inferno and the new (but sadly too short lived) Justice Society Ongoing series
I look forward to listening to this series and your spotlight Episodes.
Thanks for the JSA in the 90’s #0 however, it felt more like a JSA in the 90’s .101 I hope there won’t be a pop quiz at the end as I might not have taken proper notes!
This sounded very similar to another (excellent) show that I only started listening to a few years ago and furiously caught up 6 years worth of episodes in a matter of months. Why it’s even got some of the same music for the sections …. More to the point it’s got a very familiar voice! So I am excited to be in on the ground floor for this podcast series and the journey it will cover (and beyond).
I’ve been a fan of the JSA from well… that’s a good question. I think I either first encountered them in JLA #193 because I seem to remember the pull out story Or All-Star Squadron #1 . But it’s a hazy time as that would have been probably about Spring of 1982 by the time they reached UK shores. I DO remember buying the Black and White UK Reprint of the Origin of the JSA (originally in DC Special 27) in “The Super Heroes Monthly” in the summer of 1992 – so depending on how things shipped to the UK it could likely have been any of those or roughly all at the same time. I don’t know if Martin Gray was working for the UK publishers back then but it maybe could have been his input that helped introduce the team to me – and also the Spear of Destiny etc. I also recall maybe seeing Dr Fate and certainly Huntress in backs ups in Flash and Wonder Woman – but I don’t remember if those screamed JSA to me at the time or not – Was there a Brave and Bold with Dr Fate maybe that I’m remembering as well?
Anyway it matters not the correct origin – much like the Joker – it’s all about the point that when I did encounter them I thought they were amazing and I followed them via All Star Squadron from the start up until they went away in Crisis and that “Last Days of the JSA” book – I did read Young All Stars and I thought it was good at the time… Not sure I’m going to go back now to check… But then of course I missed the JSA and when DC finally brought them back properly in the 90s I WAS THERE rooting for them to return just as much as I’m going to root for the success of this podcast series!
Oh and I’d love to know what would have happened on Earth “Society and Water Network” where you did launch your JSA blog. Actually when I think about it – this network would have been called “Yellow Gloved Network” over there wouldn’t it?
Hiya Doug, thanks for the shout-out. DC The Super-Heroes Monthly was before my time with Egmont, I joined at the end of 1989… your memory is a wee bit out as to when the Secret Origin of the JSA was reprinted… it wasn’t 1992, it was 1982. Back then I was at journalism college in Darlington, so all credit to editor Vanessa Morgan (gone far too soon) not only for publishing the story, but for putting up with all my letters! I’m probably in that issue…
Batman and Dr Fate did indeed have a teaming, in 1979’s The Brave and the Bold #156.
Hey Martin, whoops that was a typo on the 1992/1982 I knew it was 82 as it was not long after JLA 200 landed in my hands!
I am not sure where my copy went but those painted covers were fantastic!
Great first episode.
You made the point that the 90s were a better time for the JSA than the eighties and I agree and I’ll go one further.
I love All-Star Squadron. I love Infinity Inc. I even love Young All-Stars. They’re foundational in my love of the Golden Age characters from DC.
But…those teams aren’t the JSA.
The Squadron had members of the JSA on the team, but that was unavoidable because FDR drafted all of the mystery men into the team. Infinity Inc. are the sons, daughters, and godchildren, but they are specifically not the JSA. To put it in SAT terms, Infinity Inc. is to the JSA what the Teen Titans were to the JLA. Connected by blood and found family, but not the same teams. The Young All-Stars were just the junior team of the All-Star Squadron.
Roy Thomas did fantastic work with all three teams, but they weren’t the according to Hoyle JSA.
So, yeah, the JSA had a much better time of it in the 90s because they actually had several series and mini-series at the dawn and end of the decade, whereas in the 80s they were relegated back to the yearly team-up in Justice League and then shown the door after the Crisis.
“But, Mike, weren’t they shown the door during Zero Hour?”
Yes, but unlike after the Crisis where they were taken off the board entirely the surviving members went and hid out in other titles. Starman and Wonder Woman in particular had JSA stories, albeit in flashback form, that kept the fires burning and, as you mentioned, Jay got to hang out in Waid’s Flash run (and in Wonder Woman) and Alan Scott was in Green Lantern Quarterly, a special during Underworld Unleashed, and his appearances in Green Lantern.
The powers that be may have thought that having those characters around stretch credibility, but other writers kept the home fires burning until 1999 when the team came back and a new generation of the JSA started.
So…yes, Shag, you were right about that.
(I’m never going to hear the end of this.)
And it’s hello from me. Thank you and congratulations for an excellent opening show, Shagg. I am so looking forward to this series getting going, you have so many great comics to cover and characters to discuss.
You said several times that you thought your opinions were controversial… I’m not sure that’s the case! JSA fandom has never felt particularly cranky, I doubt anyone would have taken offence at you noting you enjoyed one run more than another. I’ve enjoyed every run to a greater or lesser extent, it’s all good fun!
My own JSA origin story isn’t very exciting. I first came across them on inheriting #21 and #22 of Justice League of America and found the idea of a previous Justice team very exciting. The characters with shared names but very different looks and powers were my faves. And that Crisis on Earth One/Two story – wow. Soon afterwards I read their latest appearance when Justice League of America #100 came out. Great times.
You’re introductory issue to the JSA was the same as mine and like you it took me years to find the second part of that story. My other early exposure to the JSA (or at least some of its members) was All-Star Squadron.
In terms of the 90’s, I bought the “Demise of Justice” hardcover when it came out as I only had 4 issues of the series when it was originally published. About 3 months ago I finally found the issues I was missing from the 10 issue monthly series. Still hoping DC will collect it in hardcover at some point though.
That was a very touching origin story from our host. Thank you for sharing it.
As someone who has been podcasting with Shag for (ye gods) over a decade, I can say with firsthand knowledge how much Shag loves the JSA as a set of characters, a concept, and comics. And truly having a passion for your subject is, IMO, the most important ingredient to producing a good podcast. So I am sure this will be a fun listen, even if Shag shared some opinions about the JSA that are just completely wrong. But he does that a lot.
I have no idea if I will ever be invited on the show (if I was Shag, I wouldn’t), so in case I don’t get to say this on air–if you’re a JSA fan, or even a superhero comics fan in general, this will be great listen, and a great addition to the network.
Loved the intro, loved the opinions, loved the heart-warming Origin Story. Can’t wait to listen to this show every month!
My own JSA origin is not quite so memorable. I came across JLA #112 (one of the 100 Pagers for 60c issues) and fell in love with the JLA. That issue did NOT have a JSA reprint. However, I immediately subscribed to JLA and the first issue I got in the mail was JLA #114, which reprints one of the greatest JLA-JSA team-ups, the introduction of the Crime Syndicate. From that story, I was hooked, and those members (especially Dr. Fate, Dr. Mid-Nite, and Starman) remain three of my favorites to this day. Ironically, it was years before I tracked down JLA #113, which was an actual JLA-JSA team-up!!
Really enjoyed this first episode and can’t wait to dive in on the series again (probably haven’t read it in almost 30 years).
My JSA origin is the “Crisis on Earth-Prime” story in JLA and All-Star Squadron. I started JLA with #204 and A-SS with #13, so that story came almost immediately. I was hooked by the idea of the JSA, Earth-2, and multiple earths.
Man, have I been waiting for this podcast! My history w/ the JSA begins when I was 6 1/2 years old. One of the first comics I remember having was All-Star Comics #72 featuring the “Super Squad”. (Incidentally, I just picked up an old copy of this issue and had Joe Staton sign it.) Immediately, I was hooked on this group of characters, some almost familiar (Green Lantern, Flash, etc.) and some brand new to me (Wildcat, Star-Spangled Kid, etc.). I followed them over to Adventure Comics for their run in that book. And, of course, I waited each year for the annual JLA/JSA team-up, starting with JLA #160 “Crisis from Tomorrow”.
I was a dedicated fan of All-Star Squadron in the 1980s and still consider it one of my favorite series. For a while, I subscribed to Infinity Inc. which I also enjoyed very much. And Shagg, while I adore both of these series, I agree with Michael Bailey that they are not technically the JSA so you will receive no scorn for your opinion from me.
The newsstand where I bought comics in my small Appalachian town closed around 1987 or 1988. That, combined with reaching my older teens, took me away from comics for a few years at college.
In the mid-1990s, I jumped back into comics picking up Marvel’s mutant titles. At some point, though, I did pick up the TPB of James Robinson’s Golden Age miniseries and the spark of interest in the JSA began to re-ignite. Toward the end of the 90s, Robinson, David Goyer, and Geoff Johns brought the band back together and I was ready. For me, that run is up there with the best of super-team books. And I think I have read all the iterations of the team since then, liking some more than others as is always the case.
I think what I love most about the JSA is the idea of legacy and generations. Having older heroes mentoring new younger heroes who are NOT sidekicks and younger heroes taking up the mantles of older characters makes it special, especially now that I am growing older myself. Aren’t we all?
All that is to say thank you, Shagg, for this podcast. I have read some of the Parobeck JSA, but not all of it. I look forward to learning more and listening in the months to come.
Great primer episode! The story about your sister is so loving and sweet and chokes me up every time. Thank you so much for sharing.
I’m really excited to hear the show. The Parobeck series has a special place in my heart and I can’t wait to read along with the show.
If folks do want to hear more about the JSA in the 80s, I recommend listening to the A World on Fire: An All-Star Squadron Podcast show by our buddies Billy D and Herman Loew. It’s a great show.
Bring on Jessie Quick!
Sean
My JSA origin actually begins close to the origins of the network — that period when I had just started seriously collecting comic books and specific titles in the 80s brought me to the DC universe and consequently Crisis on Infinite Earths & Who’s Who!
I knew about the Earth 01 / Earth 02 stuff from individual comics, but the idea of the JSA = Earth 02 & JLA = Earth 01 both blew my young mind and made total sense for me. I soon began collecting any issues I could find of the All-Star Squadron and tried to find the older “Crisis” crossovers between Earth 01 & Earth 02. I’ve always wanted to see how the generational stuff would’ve worked out for Power Girl and Huntress, being very major next gen heroes and hoped they’d figure into some Infinity Inc. stuff like Supes & Bats in the JLA (as occasional heavyweights, but major influences on the team). But it was not to be.
My origin would be the JLA/JSA/Wild West heroes, a little before I started comic collecting at all, got them. In Whitman samplers.
Somewhere, right now, the world’s only Armageddon:Inferno fan is shedding a single tear. “Firebrand?”
But seriously, it’s not that bad. John Ostrander at his worst is okay. (And this is Ostrander at his worst. ) it’s no The Alien Agenda. And I expect it will get it’s due as place-setter for.better stories and laying some threads Johns will eventually take up.
I was so excited for this episode and it did not disappoint! I love that you went over the plan for the show, so I know what to expect.
My origin with the Justice Society of America comes from a mix of Armageddon: Inferno, older comics my aunt sent me from her collection growing up and the DC Cosmic Cards series. I’d go to the comic store near me and pick up whatever I could afford with my allowance that looked interesting. I got the final issue of Armageddon: Inferno because the cover showed different versions of characters I knew. I recognized some from a batch of comics my aunt had sent me from when she was a kid and from the DC Cosmic cards I had. I’d go through the pages to try and identify as many characters as I could. This is where I learned of the Golden Age and they’re importance to comics. Through grab bags at my local comic shop, I had an issue of the 1991 mini-series, the one with Hawkman. I also had New Teen Titans #19 with Carter Hall’s Hawkman and a couple Green Lantern Quarterly issues with Alan Scott, including when he became Sentinel. So the team was always in the back of my mind as a kid.
When I was a teenager getting back into comics and DC specifically, there was something of a golden age boom. The team showed up in Grant Morrison’s JLA (which I was reading at the time), there were the DC Direct PVC figures, the All-Star Comics mini-series, and posters for the upcoming JSA series. I’d read the Crisis Times Five story in JLA and loved it, but what really made the Justice Society click for me was, of course, Starman by James Robinson and Tony Harris. Specifically it was the Sand and Stars arc. There was something about Jack going to meet Wesley Dodds and Dian Belmont that made me wistful for the classic heroes. I dunno, it was something about the way DC was spotlighting the legacy and the team that made me want to really explore this section of the DC Universe. They were important and they were finally being treated with some respect after what happened in Zero Hour, and I wanted to be there on the ground floor when it happened.
To say I adore that late 90’s JSA series is an understatement. I think it was one of the first books I HAD to get monthly. From the first issue (I’d get the Secret Files and Origins issue much later) to right about issue fifty-five, I was there EVERY month. It was my first exposure to Geoff Johns who, at that time, was doing retcons that made sense. He took characters who hadn’t been seen in a while like Sand, the Michael Holt Mr. Terrific, the Rival and weaved them into the story. Things that most people would ignore or throwaway were used to wonderful effect. He took concepts only mentioned in Starman like Johnny Sorry and the King of Tears and brought them into the book. Forgotten plot threads like what happened to Wildcat’s son in that issue of Wanted or Johnny Thunder’s senility became plot threads he wove in naturally. And, the Justice Society felt like a family as opposed to the JLA who felt more like a team. The only reason I stopped after issue fifty-five was because I was starting community college around this time and comics had to take a back seat to transportation and book costs, but I never stopped loving the team.
When you get to both the 1991 and 1992 series, I’ll chime in with my thoughts and memories, but for now I just wanted to say congratulations on launching this, Shagg. I can’t wait to hear what you have in store for us.
I think the first time I met a member of the JSA was in an Adam story I think it was in a collection of dc showcase presents the Adam . They had a story in one of the volumes. Where young woman are turning old and the two Adam’s team up to stop it .
Also I have an idea shag since JSA is about celebrating hero’s of golden . How about adding segment where either the some in the comments or one guests nominates a golden age hero from a different comic to be a honorary member of the JSa and by the end of 90’s we will see if have a nuff honorary members to form a sub team .
I’ll start it and maybe if you like the idea your guest for episode 2 can choose next guy or maybe that guy Frank will show up .
I hear by nominate from Nedor comics
Miss Masquerade.
Yay! It’s finally here! I’ve been looking forward to this show since you announced it.
I was introduced to the JSA in the pages of Justice League of America as well. I became a fan due to All-Star Squadron. Earth-2 was the place ANYTHING could happen. They killed off the Earth-2 Batman fer cryn out loud! Then Mr Terrific. Although at the time I read the murder of Mr Terrific I thought he was a character who had been created just for that story. When the cover of Infinity Inc. #4 told us most of the JSA had died, I totally believed it. Heck it made sense. The characters could still be used in All-Star Squadron which was set in the 1940s, and Infinity Inc could essentially replace them in the 80s. I remember searching comic shops in my area Poast-Crisis to find a copy of The Last Days of the JSA. The comic that was to send my beloved JSA off to the great beyond. The book that was intended to be the final adventure. Little did the higher ups know how much love we had for these characters. How much fans would want them back. That it was a huge mistake to take them away. A lesson that they NEVER seemed to learn!
No matter what the future holds for the JSA I’ll be here waiting for their next adventure while I continue to enjoy their classic tales. Looking forward to more episodes of the show.
Hi Shagg, congratulations on the beginning of the JSA in the 90s podcast. Really looking forward to hearing about the main series and other appearances of the JSA during the last decade of the 20th century.
I first came across the JSA when I found a copy of All-Star Squadron Number 4. I was only started reading comics and I knew Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman but the other characters were unknown to me, as was the idea that this story was taking place in World War 2. When I started collecting full time with the JLI in the start of the 1990s, the Justice Society of America miniseries was just commencing and I started to pick that up, although spotty delivery of the books at my local comic shop meant it was a while before I read the full story. Soon after came Armageddon 2001 and the follow up series Armageddon: Inferno which directly lead to the new Justice Society of America series and I was collecting JSA from that point onwards.
Looking forward to hearing more JSA talk in the future.
Where does my love of the JSA come from? Well, it all starts with a man named Ian Karkull …
I was kidding! You can put that ax down now.
The JSA were always tangentially out there with my DC reading, but I never really drawn to them too much. I’m not sure why. I enjoyed when they were mentioned or shown in stories, but they weren’t my thing. (Keep in mind that I was a Marvel Zombie until around 1989.) Once the Geoff Johns JSA series came out and I read the first issue, I was all in on this version. The Legacy + Mentor idea of the team was solidified here and that was right in my wheelhouse.
A great first episode, Shag! I’ve been looking forward to this one. I’ve loved the JSA a long time — the Legion JLA/JSA crossover from 1977 with the first JSA team-up issue I had, but I also got some of the All-Star issues, including some of Huntress’s first appearances. I was a sometime reader of the All-Star Squadron. I’m not sure why I didn’t the Mike Parobeck series in the 1990s, because I love the characters and the art is great.
I like the Earth-Two concept a lot, but I also love all the legacy opportunities that Post-Crisis allowed (particularly with the Flash, of course). Since Batman and Superman were such minor “honorary” players in the Golden Age, their removal from JSA history is really only an issue when it comes to Power Girl and the Huntress. Taking Wonder Woman out of the JSA was a big problem. And while I prefer Diana with the team, the “Polly” retcon was much better than the interim solutions that Roy Thomas (co-creator of everything) came up with.
Looking forward to a lengthy run of this and the 2000s spinoff show.
Allen
P.S.: Having just taught a course on the history of female superheroes, I’ll say the biggest regret with the callbacks to the Golden Age Wonder Woman is that they tend to go with the evil version of Baroness Paula von Gunther when actually she reformed fairly quickly and became a staunch Wonder Woman ally for decades.
I’m a relative newcomer what with me only being aware of the JSA for just over five years, picking up with All-Star’s #58. Which is something inexplicably tied to this network, a story I’ll save for another time (though it’s on my blog for the curious). Quickly I’ve become a fan of the team and was pretty excited to be able to follow a new iteration of the group, which alas has become not unlike what you mentioned about Roy back in the long ago.
Whilst I have no hot takes I look forward to shows to come, and y’know I’m available if none of the decent guests are available! 😀
My JSA origin, as best as I can recall off the cuff, was seeing either the ads for or an actual copy of the treasury edition reprint of All Star Comics #3. I definitely remember that cover, with the team sitting at a modern round table emblazoned with “Justice Society of America,” and thinking “who are these creeps?” The Gimp, Mr. Mustard Gas, Naked Albino, Tin Pan Ollie, Chickenhead, Metal Health, Blonde Dracula, and Peeper Tom? What a freak show. I was still struggling with reconciling that the Super Friends went by a different name in the comics without these sound-a-like/look-a-dorks. And the art! I’m reading (or having read to me by Power Records) comics by the likes of Neal Adams, and these guys are serving Tijuana Bible-caliber woodcarvings? Like, I had the Superman treasury, and this stuff was crude compared to Joe Shuster. Which of you want a “no,” because I’ve got enough “no” for you and all your friends– a whole society worth of “no?” Then from there it was probably the first DC Sampler promo before buying All-Star Squadron #24… for that sick new Tarantula costume, as drawn by Jerry Ordway. But I get it home to read, and… it’s on a second Earth that’s still experiencing World War II with an old-timey Batman and Robin fighting little green men? And just a whole mess of unfamiliar heroes with too familiar powers but worse costumes? And speaking of, a chunk of the story is about how Tarantula’s a lame Spider-Man wannabe in a terrible get-up who gets a better one after he helps a guy who looks like flea market Cyclops with Jean Grey’s powers have a lie down on his couch? There was just so much going on, and I didn’t know why I should care, because it’s not even the “real” Earth? So I never bought another issue new, and then they all perished into Ragnarok in the Last Days of the Justice Society Special that my buddy had in his 1988 grocery sack o’ comics. All of this was before I found out about the JLA/JSA team-ups that were more or less set in Earth-Two’s 1960s, so the A-SS stories were all flashbacks, or how the Infinitors were operating during an alternate version of the 1980s that forced an explanation of how the JSA were still active in their 60s, and just pitch it all in the bin, would you? I did eventually come around, but that’s a story for another time.
I liked Roy Thomas somewhat in the Bronze Age, mostly on Conan and Dr. Strange, but he became progressively less readable. I’ve endured a fair few A-SS, and that’s how they read, to this day. Infinity Incorporated is also painful, and I wanted to like it so much going in. I just re-listened to the Wolverine episode of The Marvel Super-Heroes Podcast, and I credited Roy Thomas first (with Wein and Romita, no Trimpe.) I did think Thomas deserved some credit for the creations, as an editor who by tradition and policy would never receive it. But then he did, and now I’ll spit on his name and never give him credit for anything ever again. Iron Munro? Created by Philip Wylie with Siegel & Shuster. And if Wolverine never existed? They invented an anti-hero, not the concept itself. Thunderbird was already Wolverine before they killed him and transferred all the traits to Logan. Maybe the world would be better for the greater Native American representation? And then Thomas could claim to have co-created (with top-billing) him too, and sooner, since Cockrum’s done been gone. I 100% agree that the ’90s were better for the JSA than the ’80s, because again, I tried to read that crud, which is why I know it’s crud.
I’m not going to sit here and string board it, but the JSA podcast is overtly succeeding the JLI one, and I wonder how many patrons moved directly from one to the other. I’m sure there’s a lot of fan overlap, but it has me thinking how different of an animal we’re dealing with. As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t have any particular passion for the individual members of the JLI or for the team’s “legacy.” The books made me a big fan of Guy Gardner and Oberon, while contributing to my affection for Martian Manhunter, but that’s about it. I’m actually looking at weeding out the lesser JLI material from my collection, although that’s part of a larger DC purge in the works. I don’t like how the JLI was treated under Didio, and I’m very fond of many of the stories, but especially with Keith gone, I have no interest in having more JLI material produced. Heck, I’m not even partial at all to JLE, since DeMatteis didn’t script most of it, and the Bart Sears art was better suited to a more serious property than the European branch ever managed to manifest. But issue for issue, JLI was a very good book that held my interest enough to listen to (I believe) every episode of the podcast. Meanwhile, I have great respect for the JSA as an institution, and more of an interest in the individual members outside of the confines of the team. The concept is all about tradition and legacy, so that even as my separation from the DC Universe grows more distant, I’ll always have an opinion on their representation in comics and other media. But as for the comics that they appear in? Man– I’m not sure how much of that I’m willing to listen to in full episode depth. I liked the Parobeck run enough to stick with that, but I’m not half as invested in it as the parallel numbered issues of JLI. The Tom Lyle maxi-series? Woof. That’s going to owe more to Shag & friends than the material.
Okay, even my intentionally abbreviated comment is already too long, though I think you asked questions/made proposals in the episode that none of the other commenters picked up on to remind me to address. I will say that if you can’t find anybody with a genuine affection for Jared Stevens, I actually read most of both volumes of his book, and liked one of them.
Find your joy, eh?
I don’t get it? Just because I’m a meanie? But that is my joy!
Chris reminded me of another question: Who else but Roy Thomas? I love these! Okay, so definitely throw out all of Shag’s suggestions. Wolfman is the Titans guy, Conway is the JLA guy, Barr is the Outsiders guy, Stern is the Avengers guy, and Levitz is the Legion guy. Could be fun to mix them up and ponder what that looks like, but they’re too associated with specific ’80s teams to take ownership of the JSA in my imagination (even if several have actual JSA writing history.) My goal is to look at comics released on the same month as Infinity Inc. #1, and use reasonably available talent to staff both that title and a new JSA spin-off (assuming that Thomas/Ordway/Hoberg stick with All-Star Squadron.) I don’t want any artists well associated with those properties, either. So who do I pick?
Earth-F Justice Society
Writer: Cary Bates. Artist: Jerry Bingham.
I’d already solved half my staffing considerations by going to Mike’s Amazing World of Comics newsstand feature and working backwards from the end of the alphabet. First Comics’ Warp series had less than a year left, couldn’t have been paying well, and the whole team would be in the majors in short order. I love Jerry Bingham in this period– a classy variation on the Neal Adams template with a heavy dose of Joe Kubert grit that suits veteran heroes. I was so excited for Malibu’s Protectors books because of his design work, until they came out and… weren’t that. Like Steve Lightle, Bingham is going to struggle with a monthly schedule, but with lead time, we can get enough early issues out of him to set the bar for those who follow. Also, inker Mike Gustovich can help with finishes and fill-in issues. I think Geoff Isherwood would be a good successor or rotating pinch hitter. As for the writing, I’ve always thought Bates was highly underrated. He’s the only person who ever made me like Flash comics, and I’m a big fan of his Captain Atom run, plus he can handle convivial teams with lots of personality.
Earth-F Infinity Incorporated
Writer: Peter B. Gillis. Artist: Kerry Gammill.
This is pre-Defenders and Strikeforce: Morituri, and those teams were so niche that I don’t think Gillis is as typecast as the other ’80s writers. He’s also prone to being morose, where these young all-stars should be more hopeful, so a lighter artistic touch would be beneficial. Kerry Gammill is the best known, fastest, and most competitive against Ordway of the various schedule-challenged pretty pencillers that I could have picked. Alternates include Jerome K. Moore, Frank Cirocco, or even Bob Layton between Marvel gigs. Any of these guys could give the Infinitors a glossy ’80s sheen, while Gillis could explore the psychology of the often misbegotten children of the World Warriors, and the dark legacy of evil that they will be tasked at fighting against.
And hey, while we’re dreaming, lets link the books visually with Brian Bolland covers.
Hi Shag! Jumping aboard the JSA Star- Rocket Racer. I came across the JSA also during the JLA crossovers during the Bronze Age (with lots of back issue access to the Silver as well) and fell in love with the concept of Earth 2 without knowing too much about the Golden Age itself.
Interesting story: in 1979 my parents took me on my first US trip to Orlando to go to Disneyland. July 1979. Guess what was on the stand? JLA 171. But I did not feel confident enough in my English at the time to buy it and did not get a Spanish translation until a couple of years later. That cover never left my mind, though, and becoming a Power Girl fan kind of ensued.
I skipped most of the eighties cause I was “too cool for comics” so when I got back the Crisis had passed, the JSA was in Ragnarok and so on, so the 90s series, specially the Parobeck one were my immediate re-entry point. Never left since. Eagerly awaiting the new podcast!
Great first episode Shag! Really looking forward to the upcoming coverage, but I really enjoyed your “DC Sampler”-style episode here. And I hate to say it…but I agree with you! I think based on how you stated your case, the JSA had a better decade in the 90s. Look, Roy Thomas is easy pickings nowadays, but I still love most of what he did back then. I will agree he kind of ran of steam, but so did Marv Wolfman, and he stayed on Titans WAY too long. Despite my overall appreciation, Roy’s take on the characters was practically myopic. He was unofficially/semi-officially known as the “Earth-Two Editor”, so anyone who wanted to do anything with any character JSA-related had to run it past him first.
All the different series and creators you mentioned of the 90s explored different aspects of the team and the characters that one creator just couldn’t bring us, no matter their love for and deep connection to the team. Yes, in the 90s, Zero Hour happened to the JSA (UGH), but Last Days in the 80s totally took them off the table for years. At least there was enough left for 90s creators like Robinson and Waid to say “eff this” and make some sweet lemonade out of those rotten ZH lemons.
Can’t wait for you to get in on the wonderful, and gone-way-too-soon Strawzeski/Paroebck/Machlan series!
Oh, I almost forgot! My origin story with the JSA? All-Star Comics #74, the FINAL issue of the 70s revivial series. I was three (cue Michael Bailey groaning). I was confused, but intrigued as my Mom tried to grasp and explain why Flash looked so different, and why Robin had such a cool costume. I was hooked.
Nice first episode, Shag. And I agree with you, Roy Thomas sucks.
Not sure if you can say Roy Thomas sucked. By that time he was already starting to get into teaching English and literature and trying to force his love of the classics onto the fans. That was the whole deal with all the Wold-Newton stuff in Young All-Stars.
He still had some interesting ideas. Hls obsession with forcing his dogma on the fans just wasn’t what they wanted in a comic.
Shag, just curious, why do you like the JSA?
Hi Shag, thanks for a great episode! Having listened to a few prior episodes of JSP, I really appreciate your passion for all things JSA, the deep knowledge you bring to the discussion, and your “accentuate the positive” philosophy. And I really liked your “what if” ideas about how the 80’s era could have been different. That had never crossed my mind, but you have some very good points and it is intriguing to consider! And yes, even as much as I love the 80’s era, the 90’s was a huge bounty of great writers and artists bringing new life to our favorite characters and the era they come from. Looking forward to this podcast, thanks so much.
Nice kickoff, Shag. I haven’t read the Strazewski JSA material in years, and I look forward to revisiting those books alongside your show in the months ahead.
Like you, I can trace my exposure to super-heroes to 1970s Saturday morning cartoons (though I never missed Super Friends if I could help it, my fave was Blue Falcon and Dyno-Mutt). My extended family figured this out and would gift me with comics from time to time. And that’s how I wound up with a copy of Best of DC Digest #21, which introduced me to the JSA. I read that little book over and over, and especially loved the “untold origin” reprint. Later, I saw them again with the All-Star Squadron when I picked up a copy of JLA # 208 during my own adolescent relocation. Even though that was the middle of “Crisis on Earth-Prime” and it took me a couple of years to track down the other issues, I was intrigued by the Golden Age characters. It wasn’t until Crisis led me to pick up the All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc. that I really dove in, but I eventually hunted down and read all the back issues of those series, and I still think the first couple years of each are some of DC’s best from the 80s. By the end, though, they were hard to love.
Perhaps you’re right that those books would have had longer lives if Thomas had stepped aside. It’s hard to see another writer on All-Star Squadron, though, as none come to mind that shared Roy’s passion for the 40s. Maybe Gerry Conway could have picked up the torch, if he had still been hanging around DC at that time. Infinity Inc. faced a different challenge. Even though the JSA had largely a cameo presence in that book, they were still a big part of what made it stand out from the crowd of super-hero teams of the day. When DC editorially shelved the old-timers, Infinity lost part of its identity. I don’t agree that Wolfman would have been the right guy to save it. Maybe Steve Englehart’s deft touch with teams could have given it new life. And hey, if he had been working on that book in 1987-88 along with Green Lantern Corps, he might have been too busy to dream up Millennium….
My JSA origin story is much like my comics origin story in general – my father was in the US Army, and we lived in West Germany for 3 years in the early 1970s. Shortly before Christmas 1975 we moved back to the States. When my TV choices increased from the lone Armed Forces channel to three networks plus a few scattered other channels, I discovered “Super Friends” and reruns of the Batman and Superman TV shows. I also noticed that little blurb at the end “based on characters appearing in ___ Comics”.
Soon, my comics reading material changed from mainly Gold Keys, Harvey’s, and Marvel westerns to DC superhero comics, and I never looked back.
This was 1976. As I looked for comics with Batman, Superman, or that DC logo, among those that caught my eye were the JLA/JSA team-up for that year and the revived All-Star Comics.
I still don’t get the whole “streamline the continuity because the multiple Earths are too confusing”, because I wasn’t confused. Maybe it was because I had an early introduction to the multiverse concept. The JLA/JSA annual team-ups were favorites every summer, and I loved All-Star Squadron in the 1980s. I read the 90s and 2000s JSA titles, and after not buying comics for several years, I’ve been picking up the recent JSA-related series.
Needless to say, I’ve always had an affection for the JSA. I don’t know what it is about them that appeal to me. Maybe it’s because these were the characters in the comics that my father said he read as a kid. At the time, I was the age he was when the Justice Society first formed. Maybe it’s a way to keep connecting with him even after he’s long passed.
Ah, well. Enough self-psycho-analyzing. Definitely looking forward to future episodes, Shag.
Good morning,
What a great love letter to the Justice Society, and introduction to a new podcast series. It has me reflecting back on all of the generations of those characters from the 40s to the present and it warms my heart while I’m traveling. I don’t remember whether it was the resurrection of All-Star Comics introducing the Super Squad or one of the JLA/JSA crossover events that was my first introduction to those characters, but the nostalgia is quite strong! I remember seeing the cover to All Star Comics #58 with the Star-Spangled Kid, Robin and Power Girl bursting onto the scene! And just as vividly, I remember the mind blowing JLA #171 and the death of Mr. Terrific! I enjoyed this episode so much I am relistening, and I’m on board for the whole series! Can’t wait!
I’m looking forward to this series! As a mostly Marvel kid who didn’t know anything about the JSA, my earliest encounter with them was a digest sized reprint JLA comic in our local library in the 1980s. Thanks to Super Friends and pop culture osmosis I knew who Superman, Batman, etc were but I remember asking my dad who the other superheroes were and him
naming Dr Fate and Sandman.
It wasn’t until the 90s surge of JSA stuff (very good point and nicely outlined by you, Shagg!) that I really became aware of who the JSA are. In my early 20s in the 2000s and on a tight budget, trade paperbacks from the library of the Johns JSA, Star and Stripe, the new Dr Mid-Nite, was how I read about them, and much later filling in the gaps via DC Infinite. This was a sector of superhero comics with tons of depth and richness that I knew little about and was eager to explore.
Which, didn’t extend to All-Star Squadron, Young All-Stars, and Infinity Inc. Shagg, you nailed it. Just way too verbose. I think in all 3 series I’d make it to number 12 or so and just admit I wasn’t enjoying it and stop reading.
Episode Zero? Who the heck does a….oh, wait we did one of those (on the Weird Warriors Podcast, a show that focuses on the Weird War Tales comic book series published by DC Comics from 1971 to 1983!). My origin with the JSA begins with JLA #195, with Killer Frost and the Injustice Society on the cover. For me, that moment when Barry corrects Jay’s “spelling” of JSA that Jay made with the bullets he bounced out of his kick-ass Mercury-style helmet is the moment that the very concept of the Justice Society entered my life. I immediately fell for their costume designs, especially those of the “non-counterpart” members like Hourman and Wildcat. From there, I became a diehard Earth-2 fan, and while I certainly enjoyed all of the 80s Roy Thomas-helmed books, I can absolutely see your point about the 90s having an edge of overall as far as propelling the JSA into the present/future. I am looking VERY much forward to this show, sir!
Soo this comment is a wee bit late, but may as well add in my two cents . One Awesome firstish podcast. And can’t wait till Shagg does his first review of these comics of the JSA. I didn’t read these tips Goeff John’s run, but looking forward to your coverage of these. Comics.
Second I must respectfully disagree with you Mr. Shagg Helana Wayne is Awsome as The Huntress. Those comics were gold. As was when a new version of her appeared in the new 52 time line. Hey that was not my fave line of comics the new 52 that is, but these comics were fun. The WW back ups were great too. I know the right on podcasting networks does a podcast of Both forms of the Huntress. Hey her first run is what brought her into the line light to story with.
3. Yeah I respect Roy Thomas as much as the next person…. But, no he didn’t create Wolverine that was othe comic pros. Anyway can’t wait for the bext podcast
Hey Shag,
I found your Bwahaha podcast via a recommendation of Gus Casals (my favourite Youtuber) on his YouTube channel about a year and a half ago. Today I just finished listening to all the podcast episodes and reading all the corresponding comic books! I want to say a big thank you! I learnt so much about comics and had so much fun reading the books together. I am very excited to start listening to this new podcast about the JSA as the issue by issue reading starts.
I am also now listening to your new 52 issue by issue analysis on Firestorm and Aquaman (as well as the once upon a geek podcast,) and I am having a blast! I agree with your mission: “Find your joy!”
Thank you again,
G
Hi, I’ve been catching up on previous episodes of the podcast as my own comics reading is finally close to catching up to the present, having just started Stargirl The Lost Children. It seems that you have not covered the newest Justice Society of America series. Sorry if I missed you mentioning it elsewhere, but have you or do you plan to spend any podcast time on it?