oHOTmu or NOT Ep.76: Mirage to Mr. Hyde

A Native American Valkyrie. The stretch of the imagination. Daredevil's boogeyman. A Victorian monster. Which are hot, which are not? The Girls of the Hot Squad will tell you as they continue reading the eighth issue of Marvel Universe Deluxe.

Featuring permanent panelists Elyse, Isabel, Nathalie, Josée, Shotgun, and Amélie

Listen to Episode 76 below (the usual mature language warnings apply), or subscribe to oHOTmu OR NOT? on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

Relevant images and further credits at: oHOTmu or NOT ep.76 Supplemental

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21 responses to “oHOTmu or NOT Ep.76: Mirage to Mr. Hyde

  1. Mirage’s headband with feather, braids and moccasins seem pretty stereotypical too, at least by 2021 eyes. But despite this, and the overly red skin, they were trying back then to give more represenation, so that should be applauded.

    Other than the main hero shot, every single image of Mister Fantastic was by John Byrne. I think there are enough panels there they could have included some shots by co-creator Jack Kirby and perhaps other signifcant artists like George Perez. I would like to see the girl’s reaction to Kirby’s early lankly Reed, and his later, buff action hero version, from the same artist.

    Mister Fear does have a pretty cool look, but Marvel seemed to be full of these “just a costume” characters, as Siskoid put it. I think it’s ultimately why their rogues in general aren’t as memorable as DC’s in many ways. FF and Spider-Man foes aside. Sorry, F4.

    If the girls don’t like the image of Mister Hyde, maybe you should steer them away from any comics drawn by Sal Buscema. Ol’ Sal LOVES to draw people screaming with gallons of saliva running like Niagra Falls. If a character asks someone to pass the mustard at dinner? Screaming mouthful of spit!


    1. Somebody on OHOTMU’s staff had a big boner for John Byrne. He’s overly represented whenever possible.

      And as for Sal Buscema, what I find disturbing about his work is the beady eyes.

      1. Well, he was THE Marvel artist of the time, which was why it was so jarring when he jumped ship to DC to do Superman. And Kirby’s relationship with Marvel was litigious at the time. So those factors probably are part of it…in addition to the Mister Fantastic-like boner. Just watch Mallrats. And you should point the girls to that scene.

        I love Sal’s stuff, but yeah, the beady eyes are a bit frightening, as is all the angsty screaming.


  2. Interestingly enough, Mister Fear was the big bad in the module I ran in the Class 1000 Podcast (https://class1000pod.podbean.com/). 🙂

    On another note, and you just knew that I had to comment on this, Mirage becoming an honorary Valkyrie was an interesting development for her character. As there’s no origin for the Valkyries in the Lore, this doesn’t contradict anything. In fact, it made me think of how it could work. (I hope you’re comfortable, because this is going to be a bit long.)

    You see, there are 4 destinations for the dead in the Norse Worldview. Two of which, Hel (where most souls go) and Nifelheim (the realm of the dishonored dead), have no bearing on this discussion. The honored dead go to one of two places, Valhalla and Fólkvangr (pronounced Folk-Van-Geer). Most are familiar with Valhalla, Odin’s hall where half of the heroic dead are taken to fight and feast until Ragnarok. Fólkvangr, ruled over by Freya, is where the other half of those dead go, but also where the other honored dead, including the women, go.

    As we know, there were Norse women who fought, to defend the home if not in actual battles. If the Valkyries are made up of some of those women, chosen mutually by Freya and Odin, then having Mirage join them makes sense. She’s already a warrior and it could be that the horses act like Green Lantern rings and chose a worthy person. Brightwind* would have seen her potential and acted to bring her into the fold.

    Where “kid scary content” is concerned, I have a funny story. The first time we took my daughter to Walt Disney World she was 5 years old. We went on quite a few attractions, but one of the ones she took to early was “The Haunted Mansion”. On our second (or possibly third) time in the queue, there was a group of cheerleaders from (I think) Brazil who were in Orlando for a competition. They were right behind us and talking (in very good English) about how they were nervous to go on the ride. My daughter turns around, looks directly at them, and says, “Don’t worry. It’s scary, but only Disney scary.”

    – Goosebumps Hendricks

    * I wonder if Brightwind and Swift Wind are related. Mr. Franklin will know what I’m talking about 😀

    1. Hey Gene, in regards to the horses, I was thinking the same thing! And for a good “kid scary” movie, might I suggest to everyone the film version of Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, from a few years back? A surprisingly good film, with real scares, and a compelling story and strong cast.


  3. Another fun episode!

    Interesting that this episode featured two fear-generating characters, with Mirage using her powers for good and Mr. Fear for evil. A nice bit of alphabetical serendipity…

    One detail of Mr. Fear’s origin that the ladies might appreciate: Not only did he discover his fear-gas by accident while working on a completely different villainous scheme…he discovered it when his CAT knocked over the chemicals, and the fumes made him temporarily terrified of his cat! In his origin story, there are these great panels (beautifully drawn by Wally Wood) showing him cowering from this adorable cat and crying out “Stay back, kitty! Don’t hurt me!” Amazing to think that a series of villains owe their start to a cat knocking stuff over!

    Regarding the “melting” panels in the Mr. Fantastic story, if they need context: Reed had been trapped in an “escape-proof” glass tube, but he figured out that there was an air vent at the bottom, and rather than waste time searching for the opening, he decided that the quickest way to find it was to go completely rubbery and let himself flow through it.

  4. Impressive podcast most impressive. I always liked Mirage. She kind of looks like my cousin Christie did when she was alive. And since we are both part Cherokee and Choctaw. She also looks like Christie’s sister my other cousin of this change the names and she still alive Mindy. Not her real name but, good enough. Though she is half Hispanic. As for the skintone I’m sure it’s just a color separation error. Color separation was a good as it is now. You’ll note there’s still using dotmatrix. Yes the beer came from her fear. A legend within her tribes folk lore. The hellfire club was the reason her grandfather died. Which happened in her first appearance. Oh looking at the file it seems the bear is her parents. Which is just weird.

    It is strange that the bear would be monster. Since in most Native American cultures. And since she’s from US that’s what she would be called. First nation isn’t used in the United States. It’s probably accurate, but it’s not used. At any rate generally the bear is a good creature. That represents power within most Native American mythology. Hence my bear tattoo. My aunt and given me the tribal name of running bear. It’s normally the coyote that is seen as evil. Or at least a trickster God along the lines of Loki in Norse myth. Or Anansi the African spider God. Whom was also a trickster. So this just appears to be fiction that was made up. Like if Marvel made Thor the villain of their comic book. Or Hercules. Since in the few Native American mythology is I’m aware of. The bear represents strength not a benevolent spirit. As for her wearing moccasins it was a thing in the 80s. Again my cousin Christie used to wear them.

    And though our Native American bloodline is from generations back. It was still there. And people just wore them. Along with certain beads. These single feather and a headband may be a bit much. But, whatever. The X isn’t on her costume because she’s not wearing the traditional school belt. And wearing whatever that thing is around her waist. I don’t know the Cheyenne tribe so it could be a thing. Then again this is a comic from the 80s. And had they decided to put her in the Dakota tribe they probably would’ve written it down as Soux. I’m pretty sure no one has ever called themselves Soux. And most people from that tribe referred to themselves as Dakota. From my understanding Soux means enemy . While Dakota means the people.

    But, I’m not from that tribe so I don’t know. And again my bloodline comes from generations way back. Centuries ago as it were. Like ancestors and all that. Back to the character at least she’s not drawn how she was drawn in her first appearance. In that issue she was made to have over exaggerated features. As for wolfsbane I think this was a training exercise where the two girls were competing against each other. Not sure why a woman from Ireland have a fear of snow. But, who knows. Since wolfsbane is a mutant with the form to transform into a werewolf. And fully into a wolf. So she could probably laugh in wolf form. One day you realize how cool Cyclops is. She did end up joining the Valkyries in that issue where the new mutants along with the X-Men ended up in Asgard. When Loki was trying to manipulate things to wear storm became the new thunder God Thor was either dead at the time or had been turned into a frog.

    Or it may have been when he was falling apart in only his armor was able to keep them together. I can’t remember which one. Any rate Loki realized his brother would be back. So he tried to put storm in charge as the new thunder God. And he tried to take over Asgard while Oden was in the old sleep. At any rate moonstar became one of the Valkyries. Not sure if that’s a job you’d actually want. Since you’re basically there to pick up the dead that are to go to Valhalla. So basically a well-dressed Grim Reaper. Still, she did become one of them. Which is better than what they did later. Where they made her powers work from a bow and arrow. The Native American character needed a bow and arrow to use her powers. I’ll just leave it at that. And her costume became more central casting.

    On to Mr. fantastic. Glad to hear you all all liked him. I think he’s based on the professor from Gilligan’s Island. So for a cobbler drawing this is probably wouldn’t be built. Poor professor Alan is probably in disbelief right now. Since he is after all the doom bot. I kid. I like listening to the quarter bins. I think most of the drawings they used in this are from John Byrne. Except for the main image so that might be why the build is different. I also have no idea who inked this. And yes yes he can make every part of his body grow and get thicker. Including his joystick. And can literally make it work for her pleasure. “Brings Susan a glass of water while they’re in bed. Then his shoulder to her comfortable. While stretching into the next room to go for his next scientific break through. While stretching his other arm all the way to Latvera to give Dr. doom notes on how to make his next experiment better. Pour Alan. As for the weird panel changes features that was when he was turning himself into a giant rubber ball. To take out some enemies.

    As for his inability to handle interpersonal relationships. I think he has as burgers syndrome. The writers just haven’t put this detail into the stories yet. As someone who goes through it. I can tell you it becomes difficult to handle chitchat and to express oneself to those you care about. He understands scientific things better. Then trying to navigate the difficult minefield that is human interactions. So he doesn’t mean to treat Sue are Franklin badly. He just has no idea how to express emotion. R when it is required. So he will be generally confused when people think he is being cold to them. See data from Star Trek. So glad to see that Mr. fantastic made the hot list.

    Mr. fear time to move on to him. I’ll look an editor for the BBC. The name sounds like someone who would have posted that weird looking at peace that was mainly trans-phobia. Okay back to the topic at hand. The blue and violet custom is an interesting choice. But it’s not really pointing to his nipples. Though if you wanted to confuse people he, skeletal or and Dr. destiny should hang out. People have a time figuring out which is which. Not sure why he picked a blue skull. Though I guess it blends well enough with the light blue custom and the violet accents including the violet Cape. Go from someone who will probably have to run for the cops a lot. He picked a weird custom. With the long Cape the high collar. And a hoodie. For whatever reason I just don’t feel fear induced. By a guy of average height and weight dressed in a sky blue spandex outfit with violet accents. Are the big violet Cape. With the Elvis like caller. The gun is fine. But it doesn’t look like a real gun. Just like the fear God that it is. I can see dead pool having a field day with this guy.

    Onto Mr. Hyde. He’s just a man who is happy to be a life. Not sure why that old men at work song came to mind. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jive. But, whatever I’m old. The main image looks like he got to work late after waiting too long to get his cup of coffee at the local coffee shop. Not much else to say about him. He was probably based on the movie. Granted that was also part of the basis for the whole. That movie and of course the Frankenstein movie with Boris . Any rate can’t wait to hear the next podcast.

    1. Interesting insight on Native American stuff. In Canada, the appropriate term for the cultures is First Nations, though an individual is still a “Native”. As Canadians, we will continue to use those terms even when discussing American characters/cultures.

      Gilligan’s Island is 4 years later than the FF, but I wonder if anyone’s ever done an art piece where the Islanders are dressed as the FF and their supporting cast.

      1. Alex Ross depicted Mr. Fantastic with the likeness of actor Russell Johnson in “Marvels,” so a retroactive casting, I guess?

  5. Great show, as ever. Mirage isn’t hot, in the sense that she’s a wee girl, but definitely is hot in the personality and power stakes. She was the standout character in the original New Mutants. Sadly, as Siskoid made clear, her co-creator Chris Claremont liked her too much, and overloaded her with nonsense, such as the Valkyrie business – utter mince.

    Mister Fantastic is hot as drawn by Jerry Ordway here, but he stinks of tobacco, unless his pipe is filled with unstable molecules. As regards the daft name, writer Mark Waid came up with an explanation for that (50 years after the fact). He posited that Reed realised that after his loved ones became freaks because of him, they’d need purpose, and a big, flashy superhero team could give them that, so he led by example, taking on the silly name. Sadly, the character was ruined forever by his involvement in the Illuminati.

    Where are the ladies seeing Mr Fear’s nipples? Unless he’s an Atlantean, he doesn’t have light blue skin. Cold. So, so cold.

    Mr Hyde is a horrible brute who has nothing going for him beyond moderately decent tailoring.

    1. They’re not seeing nipples (they’ve all been erased by the inker anyway), it’s just that the cut of the shirt kind of attracts attention to where nipples would be.

  6. You guys were wondering why Mirage doesn’t wear the standard X-Men uniform belt with the ‘X’ belt buckle. I’m her very first appearance, when she dons the school uniform for the first time, Prof X asks her why she’s not fully in uniform. Mirage defends the changes she made to the uniform (the belt and her boots) as being from her heritage, that she’s expressing who she is, and if he doesn’t like it, she will leave. He relents. A very proud and strong personality, Mirage has. I always thought she was cool.

  7. I’m loving that. Namor topless no nipple mention. Hulk topless no nipple mention. Herc has on a toga no talk of his nipple. I wonder if No Mad will get a nipple mention cause of his low cut costume. The Cat a Shang Chi hero is Topless no nipple mention. But, the gals go on about Mr. Fears nipples. about his lack of joy stick… unless that what that weird line above his leg in his shorts is supposed to be. To low to be a hip line. And to have it turned up like that not looking comfy. .if he moves wrong could be an ouch moment. to deep of a duck and oy. …… any way. The biggest talking point is Mr. Fear’s nipples. Now I get the love of x shaped bandoleers. In the 80s. They bring the eye to men’s nipples.

    Hmm, wonder if Spider Man will get the nipple talk? He 2 has an x shaped peace of cloth that almost touches his nipples and it’s red. This is why Cyclopes gets no love. his costume is solid. If he had a big x on his costume and it pointed at his nipples he might get more fan rec. Who knew? Mr. Fear bringing the sexy back with the nipple accenting costume. I may have been wrong in my not liking the costume since it brings so much talk. Fear the power of Mr. Fear’s nipples.

  8. The New Mutants were definately a platform for Chris Claremont’s writing idosyncrasies, including his penchant for ethnic and international diversity, and MIRAGE is no exception.

    Her ability to manifest a target’s greatest desire seems ideal for romanctic drama, which leaves me wondering how much that avenue has been explored in the comics. Suppose she throws the power at someone she fancies, only to see her powers conjure another woman, or she uses the power on someone who fancies her, and the resulting mirage is Dani herself? It’s not a showdown with the Shadow King, but the X-books were always soap operas at their heart.

    Dani’s power reminds me a little of BLACK MAMBA, who is a far more sexualized character than Mirage, which goes to show how personality can affect the manifestation of one’s powers.

    Like Chris Franklin, I noticed the abundance of John Byrne shots of MR. FANTASTIC. Did Byrne display greater creativity with Reed’s flexibility than previous artists had? I don’t recall seeing him sail like a flying squirrel before Byrne did it.

    Since a cat knocked over MR. FEAR’S compounds, I suppose we should be grateful he chose the costume and moniker that he did. Given how silly the Silver Age could get, he could have just as easilly taken the name “Scaredy-Cat”.

    As always, a fun listen, and I’m looking forward to the ladies’ reaction to MOONDRAGON, which should be coming up soon!

  9. This was lots of fun, everyone! I’m a little behind on listening so this was a breath of fresh air while working. All of you consistently brighten up my day every time I listen. Good job!

    Mister Fantastic – I was …… shocked? No, that’s not right. Disturbed (that’s better) by where this discussion went and now I can’t get the image of a MCU/Human Centipede crossover out of my head.

    Mister Fear – I love villains that were just about the costume! Jack O’Lantern and Hobgoblin (sometimes the same person!) were a couple of my favourites. I think it’s my tendency of liking variations on a theme. So, of course, I like Mister Fear. It’s all about branding, for villains. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Hobgoblin start a business where he “sold” costume identities to thugs in Spider-Woman not long ago? So you could pay to become Mister Fear (or the Eel or Grizzly, etc.) and get all the gear plus costume!

    Mr.Hyde – Sal Buscema is one of my favourite artists BECAUSE of the beady eyes and the mouth goop. But I find it only works on certain characters. I think Sal was perfect for the Hulk and he was just okay on Spectacular Spider-Man. I think it works pretty good for Mr.Hyde, specially because of the ladies reactions.

    Thanks for the great compliment, Elyse! I know for sure if you (and the rest of the oHOTmu) crew weren’t in my life, I would definitely be sad as well as a lesser man for it! You rock! Keep up the great work!

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