You’re not dreaming! THE SANDMAN SLEPT HERE is back with another exciting episode. Max Romero, Ryan Daly, and Paul Kien as they discuss Sandman Mystery Theatre issues #5-8. Writer Matt Wagner is joined by artist John Watkiss for a pulpy tale of racism, identity, and star-crossed love. Who is the man from Dian’s past, and how is he connected to a string of brutal murders in Chinatown? What nefarious force seeks to put rival Chinese factions against each other? And how will the mysterious Sandman thwart the chameleonic killer known as “The Face”? Plus, the hosts respond to last episode’s listener feedback and play another round of “The Dream Sequence”. Get out of bed already and tune in!
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I’m gonna with an old three stooges short heavenly daze . In which shemp goes to heaven and prove to his uncle that he reform his two cousins the whole thing turns out to be shemp having a dream .
Another great show gents! The Face looks like a twisted Mr. Potato Head on that last cover. Yeesh! Just from these sample pages, I like the art style better than Davis (I know, I know). But I remember Watkiss drawing an arc of Legends of the Dark Knight about werewolves that was kind of hard to follow, so I get the complaints. His style reminds me a bit of Cliff Chiang or Steve Yeowell who did some Starman work a bit after this.
Favorite dream movie? Hmmm…well, Ryan jokingly mentioned Nightmare On Elm Street 3. Any of the Nightmare films that creator Wes Craven was involved with are tops in my book (like 3 and New Nightmare), but I’m going to go with the original. Despite Freddy becoming a joke later, the original is still a horror masterpiece, and legitimately unnerving and scary at times.
I was not a fan of John Watkiss’ art the first time I read these four issues. And I still wasn’t impressed my second time. But the third , when I binged the whole series, I started to come around and realize it’s not that bad. Now after listening to your podcast covering “The Face” issues of Sandman Mystery Theatre, I realize there is a bit more to appreciate about Watkiss’ style and I am going to start reading along with you all… even though the wait between episodes is interminably long!
You guys are killing it so much with this podcast that Lt Burke is going to be assigned to investigate.
Another fine episode. Count me among those who think that Guy Davis’s art is perfect for the series, despite appearing “ugly” at first blush. But it added a great deal to my enjoyment of SMT during its initial run—its unconventionality seemed well suited the gritty, realistic subject matter. I loved how Wagner made Wes and Dian wholly sensual, sexual people, without the need for the art to depict them as the type of marble-carved deities that seemed to dominate comics from the ‘90s (or really any other decade).
I’d forgotten that Davis did only some of the series—my memory was that he’d drawn if not every issue, certainly the vast majority. Seeing your scans, Watkiss’s work rings a bell, and I think it strikes that same off-kilter chord as Davis’s. (Though I think I’d have to reread this whole arc to determine whether I’d find it as hard to follow as you all did—alas, I’m too much of a cheapskate to spring for DC Ultra right now.)
Favorite dream movie? Total Recall has to be up there—a favorite action film, despite usually having little use for either Schwarzenegger or Paul Verhoeven. Honorable mention to Rosemary’s Baby, which I consider a nearly perfect film that hinges on a stunning sequence that may or may not be a dream (eh, you find out the answer at the end).
Enjoyed the episode. Vanilla Sky is OK, but go with the original, Open Your Eyes (Abre los ojos.) Yeah, you’ve got to read it, but surely all the comic books have prepared you.
As for dream movies, there was a weird movie starring Jason Robards, Piper Laurie, Cory Haim, and Cory Feldman called Dream a little dream. Almost a Freaky Friday setup where Robards as an old grouch trades places with Feldman as a highschooler. Feldman is only around in Robards’ dreams for the rest of the movie.
I don’t think I knew that different story arcs were drawn by different artists; I really like the work of Wagner and Watkis’ in the pages you posted.
Regarding favorite movie involving dreams: I’d probably say Richard Linklater’s 2001 animated film WAKING LIFE. The story glides from character to character and uses animation to visualize floating from dream to dream. Also, more specific to me: it features Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy (in animated form) reprising their BEFORE SUNRISE characters, years before BEFORE SUNSET. At the time, the first film felt like a private discovery, so seeing the characters together again–even for just a scene–got me to see the movie in the theater during its original run.
Not sure how I missed answering last month’s question, but my favorite “dream” song is, of course, Bob Dylan’s “Series of Dreams.” Not only does the song (IMO) achieve a wonderfully vague, dreamlike state, but over the years its become my favorite Dylan song OF ALL TIME. Which basically means it’s my favorite song of all time, period.
Great episode, guys!
I didn’t enjoy “The Face” quite as much as the first story arc, but I completely agree with the highlights you mentioned. The relationship between Dian and Jimmy is easily the most compelling aspect. Shifting the focus from Wesley to Dian really lets her shine as the protagonist and detective. And if the reader doesn’t pick up on that shift, Wagner drives it home with those great lines you quoted, “Like some… vigilante debutante!!” and “You make it sound like I am the ‘Sandwoman.’” He sets them up beautifully to be a dynamic team in future arcs.
The rest of the story feels like it has all the right elements for something great, but the execution falls a little flat. It seems Wagner was aiming for a theme around identity—both literal “faces” and the immigrant experience—but as you pointed out, the ending muddies that message.
As for the art, John Watkis was still early in his career here. It looks like he may have been working from Guy Davis’s style as a guide, but you can tell he struggled to make Wesley and Dian resemble their previous portrayals while developing his own voice. If you check out his work years later on the 2009 “Deadman” series from Vertigo, you’ll see a big improvement in how he renders distinct, recognizable characters. But at this point, it’s often hard to tell who’s who—which doesn’t help, especially in a story involving characters wearing multiple faces.
Also, while The Wizard of Oz isn’t my favorite dream movie, it did debut in 1939, right around the time of these Sandman adventures.
I am reading these as you put these shows out and also was struck by the lack of Guy Davis’ art in this arc. Your comments about difficulty telling people apart is so true. Even in the sample pages, all the blond girls that are talking with Dian are nearly identical.
I do like learning more about Dian this story. As you say, she is pretty liberal and free-spirited for the time. That makes her pairing with Wesley so interesting – the timid, quiet guy would seem ‘not her type’ if you didn’t know about his Sandman.
The ultimate bad guy is too much out of nowhere and his plot does seem to a bit too complex for what he was trying to do. But his weapon … The Face … is terrifying, especially when in full Gollum mode, talking in the third person and being bananas.
As for dream movies – a bit hard. So many Total Recall nods and I considered it – but is it a dream or a tech induced vision or reality?
If ‘Jacob’s Ladder’ counts as a dream movie, that.
If Ladder doesn’t count, I’ll say Dreamscape – silly fun, evil snakeman by the ‘Warriors come out and play guy’, and Kate Capshaw! Woo hoo!
I remembered Jacob’s Ladder while I was editing the episode and thought thought I should’ve picked that one.
Without a doubt, my favorite dream movie has to be “City Of Lost Children”. Ron (Hellboy) Perlman speaking French is just a plus. The premise is that a scientist with an off-shore facility creates several forms of artificial life, one of which overthrows him and commands the others to engage in a scheme to enable him to gain the one thing he believes will make him fully human– the ability to dream. Their method is to kidnap children from a nearby seaside town and, using the scientist’s technology, distill the children’s dream into liquid form. They are undetected until they kidnap the baby brother of a traveling circus strongman (Perlman) who tracks them down with the help of a gang a thieving children. And Marianne Faithful provides the English language credits song which is also a good candidate for your previous episode’s question.
I loved that movie. I discovered it while in college and I think I watched it five times in a month. But it’s probably been twenty years since I saw it; I should probably revisit it sometime soon.
Speaking as a first-time reader, I actually liked the art by Watkiss, it felt consistent with the era and set the mood nicely throughout the story. And, it was hard to follow at times from some characters looking too much alike or being deliberately obscured during the specific scene. Very much a mixed bag. Since I have the benefit of not being on the podcast, I don’t *have* to re-read the story to try to get things straight, and say my honest take is confusion knocks this story down a lot. If it’s not clear on a first read, that’s a serious problem, because that costs you future readers.
Whew, this is clearly a Vertigo book with this kind of violence and subject matter. You know, I was going to write a whole thing about “is there a quota of swearing and extreme violence required to justify the Mature Readers Only label.” But it’s a silly line of thought, since I know Matt Wagner as a creator has done ample similar stories for Grendel under other publishers, so this is simply his wheelhouse. But also, thanks for the heads up on the next storyline so I won’t be completely blindsided.
So another line of thought, again as a new reader: Is Wesley or Dian the protagonist of this series? They’re both lead characters, so I wonder how you all feel about it. Wes is assuredly the hero so far. But there’s more narration by Dian, so we readers see more of the story from her perspective. So in spite of the title, is this actually Dian’s series?
Loving this show, Sleepyheads!
I liked the art style in this storyline, as it seemed to fit the story. There was an alarming yellowface coloration throughout the first issue (that I found in my friend’s collection) that corrected itself at the end of the first issue, and was fine for the rest of the storyline.
The story reminded me of the stories of Green Hornet dealing with Kato’s ties to the Chinese community, but (obviously) so much grittier and reflecting that hardboiled tone that this crimefighting series seems to favor instead of the more sanitized stories we normally get in ‘superhero stories’. The tropes of both pulp hero and pulp hard-boiled detectives are very well mixed and very satisfying in this story.
I only know what I hear on the podcast. The explorations of narrative and motivation and violence are, and I expect, will continue to be major themes of this book. While I can appreciate leaving a reader wondering about an antagonist’s origins and history, and leaving us on equal footing with the protagonist, I start to overthink when there are scenes given to the reader that the protagonist can’t know. You described some scenes of The Face where The Sandman wasn’t present, and I understand that this is deliberately an unconventional comic book, but it still feels unsatisfying to know so little about The Face. Clearly The Face has been around for some time. He has established a reputation and relationships in the criminal underworld, even including the insular gangs of Chinatown. His fate at the end of the story felt like a cheat. The other aspect that I am sure will be explored, as you have already been discussing it, is the level and depiction of violence. These kinds of stories, whether in comics or films or prose almost always make me question the creator(s) intent. Some seem to want to shock with the “gross out” factor. Some seem to want to indulge in their own (perverse?) fascinations. I anticipate the discussions you three will have with this title! I don’t try to deny that the crimes The Sandman faced in New York in the 1930s, or that any kind of police anywhere any time for that matter, are not heinous and disgusting. Even non-crimes like casual racism can be heinous and disgusting. That does not mean I want the story-teller to show graphically and gratuitously those things. There are entire genres of films, books, etc. for that, and I do not care for them. What will your analyses of these stories be like? I am eager to hear!
Even though the original story is NOT a dream, the movie of The Wizard of Oz is tops! Does The secret Life of Walter Mitty count? Are daydreams dreams?
I know it’s too late for the first two arcs, but would anyone like me to send scans of the letters’ pages (“Curtain Call”) from the rest of the series? Many of the letters deal with the same questions about racial imagery, atmosphere and art styles that are still cropping up in contemporary discussions of this series. [Although not specific to SMT, one of the best books on how language about race and attitudes about race transform one another over time would be Randall Kenndy’s “N__ : The Strange Career Of A Troublesome Word”]
About the artists themselves, Guy Davis was most likely taken on because of his work on BAKER STREET for Caliber, not for anything he did on HELLBOY. I’m not as familiar with Watkiss, but the artist in the next arc, R.G. Taylor was almost certainly asked because of his work on WORDSMITH for Renegade.