On this episode of Peace Bound and Down: A Wonder Woman Podcast, Sean is joined by Fire and Water Network all-star The Irredeemable Shag to discuss issue 8 of volume two of Wonder Woman. This is an unusual issue that demands an unusual format. Join in on the fun as Sean and Shag both review the issue and recommend a whole batch of awesome comics, books, TV shows, and movies. It’s the premiere (and possibly only appearance) of “Shag and Sean Recommend!”.
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- Promos:
- Marvel’s Star Wars: From Empire to Jedi
Bringing a little to man’s world each month.
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Enjoyed the episode .
Here’s my secret question: who in Wonder Woman’s cast do think read an either a Star Trek book or Doctor who novel I ask this because shag is your guess .
Secret question 2 : if Wonder Woman and her cast watched the classic Doctor who story Delta and banner men what do you think they would think about it and who would be a doctor who fan ?
Bucky – Thanks for listening! I think Julia Kapatelis is the secret Dr. Who fan. She loves the stories of Ancient Greece, so Dr. Who’s epic adventures woukd be fun for her.
The amount of interrupting Shag did on this episode took me back to the days of the original FIRE & WATER PODCAST. Sean, I find breaking several panes of glass helps relieve the tension.
Thanks for the Pod Dylan and MASHCast shout outs! Although your memory of the former is, let’s say, faulty.
Rob – In listening back to the episode, I got SO MUCH wrong about my appearance on Pod Dylan. To misquote Rick James,”Age is a hell of a drug.”
MASH really did the “letter home” format better than anyone.
Great episode covering such an interesting issue. But most importantly, so many good questions and tidbits. I can’t help myself but respond!
First off, if anything would have the sheer power to alter someone’s orientation, it would be that Heather Thomas poster. That image is burned into my brain. But throwing in a Tanya Roberts poster as a power-up is an amazing move. Let’s not forget, a lot of us watched Beastmaster for one reason alone.
Now the questions.
Favorite Legends crossover – Superman #3 by Byrne. I like what Byrne was doing with Darkseid who was just as devious manipulating minds and breaking down psyches as he was punching and shooting omega beams. This idea that he might best Superman by bending the Man of Steel to his will was a new wrinkle for me.
Favorite Military crossovers – in comics, I don’t think you can get better than Enemy Ace stories by Kubert. I was lucky enough to find the Enemy Ace Archive book at a dirt cheap price at a bookstore and I am so happy I have it in my possession. Great story and art. Outside of comics, I’d say the movie Paths of Glory. It is one of my favorite movies of all time, a wonderful anti-war story and an early Kubrick film.
Favorite Letter Home – yes MASH does it best in media. In comics, Supergirl #75 was the last Peter David issue on the book and the end of the Matrix/Linda Danvers SG as the Loeb/Turner Kara was about to return. That PAD Supergirl is brilliant and the character is always struggling with hubris, wondering about her worth, and trying to prove herself. She finally get some happiness in her life only to have it taken away. The last issue is a gut-wrenching story of how she simply can’t go on as Supergirl any more, so upset with what has happened. It is told in a letter filled with self-loathing she has sent to Clark, filled with basically telling him not to look for her. Just the perfect capstone to that series.
Favorite prose – 5YL LSH #38. Brilliant. (And thanks for shoutout. I have been writing about comics for a long time. I consider my 5YL reviews my personal high water mark).
Coming of Age story – in comics, I think the journey of Wally West, first in Crisis becoming the Flash, then with Waid really growing up and fully claiming the mantle.
Silent issue – definitely that New X-men one.
Religious issue – that PAD Supergirl was dripping with religion. But as a sort of cross-promotion, I’ll say that Phantom Stranger Secret Origins issue – one story has him as ‘The Wandering Jew’. Another has him as an unnamed angel who couldn’t pick a side in the war Lucifer brought against Heaven and as a result cannot belong to either camp.
This was a great episode with such a fun conversation between you two!
Dr. Anj,
Thanks for listening! Wally’s journey from Kid Flash to the best Flash is a great long-form coming of age story. So many of us grew up right along with him.
I’m in the midst of a full read through of PAD’s Supergirl run. I like the earth Angel angle, but I also wasn’t sad wend it ended.
As always, terrific issue, Sean. And as 50% of the time, Shag was a terrific guest.
Fascinating discussion about things that really spoke to me as well as things that went well over my head. You kinda lost me on elephant pants. As for some secret answers…
I’m always shocked to hear someone other than me or my brother, Neil, mention Billy Corgan and/or Smashing Pumpkins on a podcast. Great to hear that shoutout, and even greater to hear Shag’s Precocious Princess likes the band. As for other renowned singers who would never win The Voice or some other talent show based on their vocalizations, my second favorite artist after prince is Tom Waits who often receives the same criticisms as Bob Dylan. And as for a female singer who doesn’t have the more typical voice, I’d go with Patti Smith.
For one semester I taught the first chapter of THE THINGS THEY CARRIED, “On the Rainy River” where O’Brien talks about draft-dodging, The students generally liked that and some of them continued to read the entire book.
Probably my favorite example of the letter-to-home technique in television is in SPORTS NIGHT. They actually use it twice in the first season; the first time in the episode “Dear Louise” we find out that Jeremy writes a letter to his sister every week because she’s deaf, so the format is used to recap and flashback to events throughout the week in the show. The second time, later in the season, in the episode “How Are Things in Glocca Morra” features one of my favorite lines in the series, when Jeremy, again writing to his sister, comments on Dana’s strained relationship with Gordon and says, “I understand what makes a woman think any man is better than nothing. I’ll just never understand what makes a woman think she’s got nothing.”
Favorite coming of age story… the movie STAND BY ME is in my Top 5 all time favorite films.
Best silent issues, both of my favorites got mentioned, “Pizza is My Business” from HAWKEYE, and “Silent Interlude” from G.I. Joe #21. I’m glad you were brave enough, Sean, to point out that “Silent Interlude” is not a favorite issue–in fact, it’s not even among my Top 10 favorite issues of G.I. Joe–but I have to point out that Steve Leialoha finished the issue, proving more than just the inks over Hama’s pencils to make it a lot more presentable. The reason I always remember that is because my favorite G.I. Joe, Torpedo, was named Edward Leialoha on his file card in homage to Steve Leialoha.
Ryan,
Thanks for listening! You are right that Steve Leialoha’s inks make all the difference in the art on G.I. Joe 21.
“On the Rainy River” is such a powerful story and sets the emotional tone for the rest of the book. His realization that not running to Canada was the cowardly act (for him) is so powerful.
Yet another great entry. Shagg and Sean are a great pairing! So far, Sean has enlisted a murderer’s row of guests. Thanks for that, Sean.
Okay, since everyone else is playing.
Favorite military crossovers: Suicide Squad and the post-Legends era Justice League. Batman vs. “The Wall” was perfect.
Letters from home: The final issue of CODEFLESH. It deserves some mention here.
Favorite coming of age story: Probably STAR WARS. It’s a little indie film. Look it up.
Best silent issue: Probably that X-Men issue. Spoiler alert: there’s some dialogue in the closing panels!
DAG,
Thanks for listening! I’ll have to look up this “Star Wars”, though it sounds like a shameless rip-off of The Black Hole.
The Suicide Squad – JLI crossover was so good! I loved Nemesis, so I loved that the Squad risked everything to get him back.
Thanks for another terrific episode, I enjoyed the way you split the show into sections to match the issue’s chapters. That big shot of the JLI on the cover, though, was so misleading. They should have replaced it with a big pic of everybody’s favourite, Miss Vanessa Kapatelis.
Shagg and Sean Recommend sounds like a good section, but Shagg and Shaun Suggest sounds even better!
As regards what Sean was saying about kids today not being able to read cursive, tell the time, or appreciate history, it’s all very sad; did you see that recent piece of research which revealed that kids are losing the ability to even hold a pen or pencil? And so many bairns are starting school unable even to use a potty… when did parents get so rubbish?
I never did get through that text-and-spot illoes issue of Batman, #663, ‘The Clown at Midnight’. It’s great looking but not what I’m after in a comic. And while that Pizza Dog issue of Hawkeye was impressive, I haven’t the kind of brain that can easily translate emojis and the like in order to find the narrative – to me, it was just lots of pics of dogs sniffing and heads in circles and so on. I want a comic to be a comic, I can read short stories with illustrations in books thank you. At the other extreme to Grant Morrison and his Joker, I dislike all silent issues – I know both writer and artist have put the work in – while the reader doesn’t see it on the page, the script for the artist may have to be extra precise so they can convey exactly the nuances needed for the story – but they’re super quick reads, and I love words.
I’m with Sean, Tom Strong and Promethea are just really good. Lots of words.
Ugh Hallelujah, I hate Leonard Cohen’s voice and this dirge so much; for about a decade it accompanied the cheesey montage at the end of every other episode of every US TV drama. The only song named Hallelujah anyone needs is the197i Eurovision winner by Milk and Honey.
Those Marvel comics with the Saturday Night Live and David Letterman people were just totally lost on this British kid – it was Cringe before Cringe was a thing, Marvel creators crawling up the backsides of TV people.
Sean, Terry Long wasn’t Len Wein, he was Marv Wolfman.
Anyway, Time Passages isn’t my favourite issue of the Perez Wonder Woman, but I commend the experiment.
I am all in for the inaugural episode of Shag and Sean Recommend! This hour and 45 minutes flew by. So much content here that touches on so many of my favorite things.
First of all, I really like this issue. IMHO, it’s one of the great single-issue breaks between story arcs. The four perspectives on Diana is an interesting device and Perez and Wein give all four their own voice. You not only learn more about Diana, but also more about Julia, Etta, Vanessa, and Myndi Mayer. When you mentioned “favorite panels”, my wife immediately said, “the one where Wonder Woman is lifting the car like Action Comics #1”. If I wasn’t in love with her before, that would have cinched it.
She might say that a musical artist that I like with a rather “unique voice” is Crash Test Dummies. I can only listen to them if she’s not around.
As far as favorite coming of age stories, it’s hard to top Sean’s recommendation of New Mutants and Shag’s mention of The Wonder Years and the Harry Potter books. However, this is one of my favorite genres so I will mention three others in particular. The film Lucas is an absolute delight as is the 90s movie Angus. Then, there is the late, lamented Freaks and Geeks. (Darn you, NBC!) I am also a big fan of the John Hughes catalog from the 80s as well as Say Anything.
Given my vocation (card-carrying pastor), I am also quite interested in religious themes in comics/fantasy/sci-fi. Shag is absolutely correct about the Doctor Who episode “Demons of the Punjab”. I would also nominate my favorite First Doctor story “The Romans” in which we discover that Tavius, a member of Nero’s household who provided assistance to the Doctor and his companions, is a closet Christian. Also, I’m a fan of the original Twilight Zone tv series and the episode “The Obsolete Man” starring Burgess Meredith deals powerfully w/ issues of faith. I actually developed and used a Bible study using several Twilight Zone episodes.
And finally, Shag, it is hilarious that your parents gave you that Heather Thomas poster to put up in your room. Every guy who was a certain age in the 80s knows exactly what poster you are talking about.
A trip to our local library reminds me that I completely forgot to mention the novels A Canticle for Leibowitz and The Sparrow in terms of religion and scifi/fantasy. Also, Stan Sakai’s Usagi Yojimbo has incorporated a couple of interesting stories about the “kirishitans” of Japan.
Gene Luen Yang’s graphic novel Lunar New Year Love Story is a nice coming of age story that also has some religious aspects
Great episode, Sean. I really like how you structured the episode and the debut of Shag and Sean Recommend. I too had forgotten it was the prose issue, but I like how each section was broken up by moving the Barbara Minerva plot along. I also like how the different letters/journal entries filled in some gaps with each other, like when Julia mentions that Diana disappeared and then Etta’s section tells us what happened.
I like a lot of singers who have voices that others don’t – Dylan, Neil Young, J Mascis from Dinosaur Jr come immediately to mind. If the voice works with the music and the lyrics, I am all in.
In the Harry Potter “coming of age” vein is the Magicians series by Lev Grossman. Quentin Coldwater is attending college as it starts, but he definitely needs to grow up and turn into a character you root for rather than dislike by the end of the third novel.
Also, that was a great Lasso of Truth from Shag. I knew the exact poster once he said it.
Super Captain,
I LOVED The Magicians! Such a dark, fun series.
And Crash Test Dummies might be the best example of a group with a lead singer with a unique voice.
Sean
Great show, Sean and I already forgot the guest’s name. Inadvertent motorboating and Dixie Cup bracelets are a terrific way to start!
Oh, man, I remember getting this issue at the time and feeling Tomahawked. Superman, Batman, and the League on the cover and I open it up to read a bunch of journal entries. Of course, Julia goes first. I guarantee by the time this Wonder Woman tour was over, Miss “Oh, I’m just a humble professor helping this naive woman navigate this world” ended up with a summer home on the Cape to match the winter one she already had. That grifter always conveniently had her hand out when it was time to line the pockets of her mom jeans. I bet all her books are props.
By the way, Sean, it sounds like your fellow concert-goer really Kickstarted Your Heart. But your Primal Scream must have been Louder Than Hell. She wanted to Go On With The Show, but could tell you’re a real Live Wire. That’s why she bought you a Coke so you Don’t Go Away Mad. Thank you, I’ll show myself out.
Brett, the Kapatelis “summer home” is not on either Cape Cod or Cape Ann, the 19th century destination for “summer homes” for wealthy Bostonians. The caption states that the house is in Wakefield, a “streetcar suburb” about 20-25 miles north of Boston. So where does Vanessa go to school? Probably a private day school. She wasn’t going to one of Boston Public schools High schools when they were living on Beacon Hill, that’s for certain. Wherever it is, it’s a significant commute from Wakefield every morning! Sean, you should have tried to keep a calendar based on this series. It was April or May when Diana first showed up in Massachusetts. Has the whole summer passed, or is it the end of term for Vanessa and Julia? Julia married VERY well.
I am surprised that neither Sean, Shag, nor any of the above correspondents used the term “epistolary” to describe this issue! Or mentioned a most famous epistolary novel: Dracula.
Favorite coming-of-age story: I think its still S.E. Hinton’s “The Outsiders.”
Favorite odd voice: Tom Waits
Silent comic story: Journey: The Adventures of Wolverine McAllister by William Messner-Loebs. The first story is the title character being chased by a bear through the forest.
As a former English teacher, I am hanging my head in shame for not using the term “epistolary” for the issue. Dracula is one of my favorite novels of all time exactly because it so brilliantly uses that format.
Sean
Fun episode! Such a great issue to cover. I enjoyed the different pov’s. I’m reading allot of these issues for the first time and I really don’t like Mindy mayer.
I think this is a great, different approach to a comic. That being said, these prose issues are always so rough for me to get thru tho. It took me a minute. Same for Swamp Thing #60 from back around this same time.
I agree with both of your guys Bringing Peace To Mans World. The extent of my clothes matching abilities is making sure my hat and t shirt are the same sports team. Or my GL hat with JLA shirt. And YES YES YES to Shags recommendation of less politics! Everything from books to movies, to shows to commercials and yes, unfortunately, even comics has a political/social message now. Can we please just get a good story about people in tights bashing bad guys in the face?
Thanks for the great listen, I’m looking forward to more great Wonder Woman talk and remember #MortsAreBadasses
Chris,
I’m so glad that my Garanimals idea resonated. I truly need this level of support in building outfits that match!
Great, great episode covering such a unique issue! I also thought it was funny that Shag mentioned Partition and Ender’s Game, because I learned about Partition from the Ender’s Game sequel Shadow of the Hegemon. 🙂
Thanks for listening!