It’s the eleventh electrifying episode of WHO’S WHO REVIEW! Shag and Rob take a fresh look at classic entries from Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe, featuring Bizarro World, Deadman, Green Arrow from Earth-1, Speedy from Earth-2, Kanjar Ro, The Trigger Twins, and more! Plus we cover YOUR feedback!
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Another fun show, gentlemen. No turkey tryptophan in my system, for I had an almost completely vegan Thanksgiving (the mac and cheese doesn’t count). There may have been tryptophan in some in those nuts I ate though…
BIZARRO WORLD: I believe the Bizarro “Yellow Candle” name was used post-Crisis. He had been referred to as “Bizarro Yellow Lantern” in his few pre-Crisis appearances (starting with SUPERMAN #379, covered in DONE-IN-ONE WONDERS episode #11 by the *Bizarro Xum Crew* — which frustrated Terra-Man, and no doubt Uncle Martin Gray, to no end). His origin was shown in DC COMICS PRESENTS #71. Because he was very cowardly (opposite of “born without fear” Hal Jordan) and had no powers, he was considered to be the Bizarro World’s greatest super-hero. He even refused Bizarro No. 1’s offer to create a Bizarro Power Battery with the duplicator ray because he didn’t want to give up the title.
The Bizarro World was originally round when it first appeared in ACTION COMICS #263, where Superman came upon this world and started fixing the askew buildings and objects, thinking they were dangerous. He was promptly arrested and put on trial for making things “perfect,” which is the biggest crime on Bizarro World. The story continued into the next issue, where Superman was found guilty and was sentenced to be changed into a Bizarro. When Superman proved to the Bizarro court that the world itself is a perfect sphere, they gave Superman an acquittal and literally tore up the anti-perfect law, otherwise all of the Bizarros would have to go to jail for living on a perfectly round world. Before he left, Superman made the Bizarros happy by reshaping Bizarro world into a cube, which was “no longer round and perfect” (except it was shaped into a *perfect* cube, so the joke was on them. What a SuperDickery move…).
COLONEL COMPUTRON: Cary Bates wanted to make Computron’s identity a mystery for readers in his Flash stories, planting hints that the Colonel could be either Basil, his wife, or his daughter. Mr. Bates never had the chance to reveal the answer, which was eventually uncovered in issue #37 of the Will Payton STARMAN series. Though I am not sure if Len Strazewski’s story used Mr. Bates’ planned answer or not.
Captain Boomerang offered to protect Wiggins from Computron (for pay, of course) in THE FLASH #310, but he eventually teamed up with Computron against the Flash (and was betrayed by Computron) in the following issue…
Speaking of, while Carmine Infantino never posed Colonel Computron with hands on hips, the villain did manage to stand with arms folded in THE FLASH #311.
On the CW THE FLASH television show, Basil Nurblin was an arms dealer that stole the cold gun and heat gun Cisco Ramon created from S.T.A.R. Labs. He tried to sell them to Leonard Snart, who killed Basil with the cold gun and took the weapons for himself.
DEADMAN: An amazing entry — praised be his name indeed. José Luis García-López (praised be his name) did draw a few Deadman stories in Adventure Comics before he illustrated the 1986 mini-series, which was just beautiful…
The League of Assassins connection was indeed a retcon. In the Neal Adams stories, Deadman’s killer was auditioning to join a “Society of Assassins” lead by a mysterious Asian master called The Sensei (see STRANGE ADVENTURES #215). After the “League of Assassins” debuted in DETECTIVE COMICS #405, writer Mike Friedrich made them the same organization in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #94, where Merlyn’s comment to the Sensei referred to their “League” of assassins…
Dad planned to have Deadman appear in Season 3 of the DONE-IN-ONE WONDERS PODCAST WONDER SHOW. He was going to cover one of the Adventure Comics stories and planned to ask Ryan Daly to voice Boston Brand. He also had a clever idea for the voice effects when Boston possessed various members of the Xum Crew to interject in their review. Deadman was going to unwittingly provide an additional variable in the Anti-Life equation that DeSaad (see DeSaad) was putting together that season, and Dad wanted to have Deadman show up in the finale, where it would be revealed that him possessing either Terra-Man or “Professor Xum” would protect them from the Anti-Life Equation’s effects. Sadly, he had to cut the Deadman episode and one other planned episode from the final season when he realized he didn’t have enough time…
DESAAD: DeSaad’s logo was first created for the 1985 edition of the DC COMICS STYLE GUIDE, which was unfortunately not included in the Standards Manual hardcover edition. (In fact, the original GUIDE had an entire 10-page section on Darkseid and his minions that was completely missing…)
DeSaad can also be found in season 3 of the DONE-IN-ONE WONDERS PODCAST WONDER SHOW, with a brilliant over-the-top performance by Uncle Siskoid.
GREEN ARROW II: I suspect ADVENTURE COMICS #250 was decided as the Earth One version’s first appearance because the Silver Age origin story in ADVENTURE COMICS #256 was drawn by Jack Kirby, so the researcher and editors went back to when Green Arrow first had that distinctive Kirby look…
PRIVATEER: I recently reread the Steve Englehart run of JLA and the revelation of Mark Shaw being one of the Star-Tsars working for the Key seemed to come completely out of nowhere. Given Mr. Englehart’s Marvel Comics background, I would have expected there to be some underlying hints at Shaw being a turncoat when he reappeared as the Privateer in JLA #143, which makes me wonder if Shaw’s betrayal in JLA #150 was a last-minute decision or perhaps an editorial edict…
I believe Dad had referred to that gymnastic move done by the Privateer in the surprint as a “speed vault” and a “Captain America move” (though the Batman did it as well in an often swiped Neal Adams pose in BATMAN #251)…
STALKER: The Stalker from BATMAN BEYOND was indeed a completely different iteration, who was more of a Kraven the Hunter type of character. He was voiced by Carl Lumbly, years before he had the role of the Martian Manhunter on JUSTICE LEAGUE.
Say, wasn’t the Stalker involved in the “JSA Returns” event in the 1990s…?
TRIGGER TWINS: Amazing that the whole town never knew the Trigger Twins’ secret. Wouldn’t some people notice that the Sheriff was buying twice as much food as he would need at the general store…?
The reference in CW’s THE FLASH was in the “Elseworlds” crossover event that involved John Dee (Dr. Destiny) using the power of the Book of Destiny to rewrite reality. In one instance, he rewrote Oliver Queen and Barry Allen’s history so they were a team of notorious, and powerless, crooks called the Trigger Twins, so they would not get any help from the other heroes when Dee transformed himself into a dark version of Superman to take the duo down…
THE TERRIFIC WHATZIT: Dad did indeed write this entry. I don’t suppose it’s a spoiler to reveal that Mom will be drawing the entry for Hoppy the Marvel Bunny (a funny animal version of Captain Marvel who predated the Terrific Whatzit by almost two years) in XUM’S WHO VOLUME III…?
McSnurtle the Turtle was Iris West’s childhood stuffed animal in CW’s THE FLASH television series.
I can’t wait to hear “Whooooooooooo’s next”…
In defense of Brenda Pope, 1) checking information is an editor’s job, not hers. And 2) the info is up to date. He was Yellow Lantern in DC Comics Presents #71 (June 1984).
Stalker was indeed the main antagonist in the JSA Returns event in the late 1990s. He was either completely possessed by the demon Dgrth or had taken on more and more of his characteristics.
Hang on, young Isamu, what would I be irked by?
Also, am Zen Master of Comments, nothing irks me.
Was that Bizarro-speak just now, Uncle Martin…?
No, I honestly missed the gag!
I suppose I was reading too much into your comments about the “Bizarro narration” in DONE-IN-ONE WONDERS #11, Uncle Martin. My apologies…
No apology necessary, that was 2019… I’m old,
you know!
Great recap and info as always Isamu. Thank you.
I was going to mention Hoppy showing up a couple of years prior to McSnurtle, so thanks for dropping that information. I can’t wait to see your mom’s drawing for Hoppy’s entry! I love Hoppy so much.
Well, color me impressed: Shag has enough digits, and, I’m assuming, other appendages, on his body to count to over 800 (!). That’s worth it’s own Who’s Who entry…
Great show as usual. Another interesting set of entries, and I agree with everyone’s picks for favorites. And yes, the Terrific Whatzit entry is gorgeous!
On Col. Computron, I have to note that I have absolutely no memory of this character, despite having had back then the issue in which he first appeared, i.e., Flash #304. The reason he didn’t make an impression is probably something mentioned by Shag, that it was the last issue in which the Firestorm back-up appeared. At the time, I was pretty much only picking up Flash for those back-ups (and would continue to do so for the Dr. Fate back-ups that began soon afterward) while just skimming through the main story. I really wasn’t a big fan of Infantino’s second tenure on that title.
By the way, for a split second I also pictured the Trigger Twins working the counter in Blockbuster Video.
Listeners of Cheers Cast may be surprised to learn I once had an interest in Black Canary. So much so, in fact, that I blogged about her. I covered the Green Arrow backup strips in DETECTIVE COMICS that featured Onyx. I always thought she was a really cool-looking character with a ton of potential. At least, I think that’s what I thought. Honestly, I barely remember that story, or those comics, or that blog, or that time in my life.
Anyway, here’s a link to it: https://blackcanaryfan.blogspot.com/2014/07/pretty-bird-green-lantern-194-and.html
Alas, the casting of Sydney Sweeney as Power Girl will live only in our dreams; there’s no way it’ll happen. Given a certain controversy around Sydney and the idea of white supremacy, ain’t no chance DC will ever attach her to the name “Power” anything. Them ti**ies, tho.
Wasn’t the Terrific Whatzit also established as the uncle (or grand-uncle) of Fastback from the Zoo Crew? I remember a time-traveling story in the Zoo Crew where Fastback is thrown back into the WWII-era of Earth-C and briefly fights alongside his uncle.
At the Baltimore Comic Con back in October, I was lucky enough to get both JLGL and Mike Grell to sign the Deadman and Green Arrow entries in my Who’s Who omnibus. Both are standouts in the whole series, so I knew I had to get them signed by their respective artists.
The Fastback connection was mentioned on the podcast, Steve… maybe Shag said it very quickly.
Of all the entries to say something quickly….
How bizarro of Shag.
Bizarro World – I love that we live in a world where we have not only gotten multiple versions of Bizarro but also, thanks to Superman and Lois, a CGI version of Bizarro World as well. It’s just amazing. And spectacular. And web of.
The League of Challenger Haters give off the same energy as someone that picks an obscure character to blog or podcast about. No, that’s not meant as an insult. I just see something similar between not going up against the JLA and picking a lesser known character to explore. Maybe that’s just me.
Green Arrow – There is now a generation of DC fans that think that Oliver Queen is one of the most important characters in the pantheon. The CW was not always perfect…or good…but it had a great batting average and swung for the fences in a way that the movie series running at the same time didn’t. Part of me will always be amused at the fact that Arrow started as this Nolan-esque version of Oliver Queen with no flight, no tights, and no super powers and by the end Oliver Queen is the Spectre. It was quite the arc. Wild even.
Shag: Don’t give me a long, drawn out explanantion about the things I missed in explaining where Jon Kent came from.
Also Shag: (reads comments from a feedback section that is full of people adding to the conversation.)
I kid.
So, I’ll leave it be. I think I have filled my Fire and Water quota on explaining years of Superman continuity to one of the hosts. And the whole thing behind the merging of Superman was…weird. And I’m tired at the moment.
Finally…given the “controversy” around Sydney Sweeny and a certain commercial about jeans, maybe she should play Overgirl.
Until next time…
Alright fanfic for a character I know nothing about I’ll give it a try .
It was midnight in Star city and Onyx found her self injured and surrounded by gangsters they had ambushed her .
She was bleeding and need help .
The gangsters where closing in on here and she heard a shout “I ‘‘em the gun !” And man dressed as cowboy started charging in to the gangsters and he wasn’t alone. He had the original red tornado with him and they cleaning house along with some strange creatures
Dresses like golden age flash . They finally beat the goons and the original red tornado says “don’t worry miss will get you patched up “
For the first and only time in her life onyx fainted .
When Onyx came to she bandaged and laying bed as large turtle was laying on the floor looking like something out of cartoon .
Then in came Brian savage carrying a tray with a chicken fried steak sandwich and fries . Brian says her ma hunckle thought you might
Be hungry miss…
She said “Onyx “ and then (any one else can continue the story from here and even add characters but you have to use
Onyx , whatzit , original red tornado, and Brian savage.)
Hope people will add more to this story and enjoy my part remember and then means your done
Fun episode as always.
Onyx – this image lives in my dreams. She looks so boss. Moore could do no wrong. Never read a single issue she is in.
Stalker – Loved this book so much I did deep dive reviews of all four issues on Frank’s Bloodlines blog. The Ditko/Wood art is awesome. And no surprise you mix him up with Claw. This was a time of an explosion of Sword/Sorcery people for DC – Stalker, Beowulf, Claw, and even (the other) Starfire sort of fit the bill. Gail Simone brought Claw/Stalker/Beowulf back in a Wonder Woman arc called The Ends of the Earth that is 100% fantastic and out there in trade form.
And now the downside …
Privateer – how lucky the Randomizer picked Mark Shaw this time, perhaps hoping you would rectify your skipping over Event Leviathan when discussing the Manhunters. Universal second chances should not be ignored. And so as you are discussing the entry I am thinking ‘here it is here it is here it is … Event Leviathan’ only to have it dismissed as ‘blah blah blah Event Leviathan’. I know, I should be happy it was even mentioned.
All joking aside, great episode as always. Can’t wait to hear the Hyathis entry when it comes around.
Thanks for another great episode gentlemen. While the Challenge of the Superfriends Bizzaro didn’t make me think he was a “redneck”. He did give me the impression that Bizzaro was outright evil as opposed to a goofball that causes destruction just trying to be the worst he can be.
Does anyone else think Onyx “wants to lead, a glamorous life”? I can totally see her hanging out with Sheila E, Apollonia and Prince. Taking shelter under the Graffiti Bridge to avoid The Purple Rain.
Why am I the expert on whether someone sounds like a redneck? Wait, don’t answer that.
Bizarro on Challenge of the Super Friends oddly was voiced by Bill Callaway, the voice of Aquaman starting with that series. I never got redneck, but I agree with Matt Sirois, he did seem more threatening and just evil on Challenge. Later episodes, like the Super Powers appearance, played him goofy, and he was more appropriately voiced by Superman voice actor Danny Dark. But as Rob said, Solomon Grundy had that great exagerrated southern/Cajun voice, which I try to mimic on House of Franklin-Stein…but some folks think I sound like Mr. T.
I kind of wondered if Kilg%re (or however you spell that mess) from the Baron/Guice Wally West Flash run wasn’t somewhat of a loose update of Colonel Computron. But maybe not.
I love the Deadman entry, but it wasn’t until today that I noticed the figure of Boston Brand in the background ran down to the bottom of the page, and all the other suprint elements were placed overtop of it, with Boston dressed all in black with his hands in his pants’ pockets!
That’s definitely Sarifan in the surprint of Desadd’s entry. I think Theakston’s inks on Kirby are often too stiff, but I like this piece too. Desadd kind of has a Barnabas Collins like hairdo.
Is it wrong that it used to gripe me when artists WOULDN’T acknowledge that Green Arrow of Earth-One ALSO wore the original green/red uniform? I feel like Grell should have drawn it here. Folks leaving out Batman’s oval-less chest emblem bothered me too. But it’s a great piece, of course.
No mention of Murphy Anderson’s sock feet on the Kanjar Ro entry? You guys are slipping…
I think Multi-Man raided Doll Man’s wardrobe, myself.
Miss Onyx if ya nasty! Jerome K. Moore may be the most underrated comic artist of all time. Why wasn’t he a SUPER STAR?
I loved the 80s Manhunter series, but his backstory is headache-inducing. Yikes.
The ending of the Earth-Two Speedy’s entry seemed like a plant for a potential storyline. Maybe something Roy Thomas wanted to add in? “The original Green Arrow died in the so-called crisis on infinite earths, but it is not yet known how the Crisis may have affected Speedy’s own fate.” For some reason, GA and Speedy were iniitially spared being wiped out by the Crisis wave in All-Star Squadron. They’re still in the retconned group shot in issue #60. Not sure why the weren’t considered just as problematic as duplicates of Superman, Batman, etc. But a few issues later Roy copped that they were out too. BUT, could Speedy still have shown up in the present, as a man without a past? I kept waiting for him to appear SOMEWHERE.
Stalker looks like the Hyborian Age Aquaman!
I liked the 90s version of the Trigger Twins. It was a fun update.
Obviously I’m a big fan of Namiko, Xum and Isamu’s Terrific Whatzit entry! Namiko blew me away with this. Just perfect!
Chris, when Kilg%re showed up the character I thought he was an update of was the Construct; I think they eventually teamed up.
Ever since All-Stat Squadron #60 was published, and GA and Speedy are in that group shot, I’ve that same “isn’t this problematic” thought that you’ve had.
Earth-Two Speedy is interesting. Shag is right – chronologically speaking, he wasn’t seen after JLA #102. Publication wise, he appeared in some Seven Soldiers stories that took place in WWII in the 70s, and then in All-Star Squadron a few times. Earth-Two GA is in Crisis, but my research (e.g., Mike’s Amazing World and me not reading through every page of Crisis this month), says that Speedy didn’t show up during Crisis (other than in All-Star Squadron / WWII era).
So odd.
Cheers for another top episode, Bat Cousins Rob and Shag.
My favourite entries this time were the Bizarro World, the Privateer and Deadman.
As regards the Bizzaro World, Htrae, would it have especially different physics to regular Earth, given its only been artificially squared off by Supes?
That Green Arrow logo is awful, it has no impact and looks amateurish, which is some going as it was designed by the great Gaspar Saladino. The angles of the italics on the G(reen) and A(rrow) don’t match, and the W isn’t italicised at all.
I would say the Green Arrow back-ups in Detective are worth reading, there was an especially well-regarded two-parter, Night Olympics, by Alan Moore and Klaus Janson. As for Onyx, she’s yet another one who trained in a monastery – are all monasteries in the DC Universe actually fight clubs? Are they situated next door to Wildcat’s gym?
Why does Speedy have a tache?
Excellent work from Xum, Namiko and Isamu on the Terrific Whatzit. I never realised his origin was so grim.
Psst Rob, Doug Adamson lives in Scotland, with me. Same house and everything.
I love that Green Arrow logo. A massive improvement over the weird, lopsided half of Green Lantern/Green Arrow they’d use on the Mego packaging and elsewhere.
Another delightful episode, gents! The Randomizer never makes for a boring lineup.
Kanjar Ro: One of his stories was in the JLA Treasury Edition, and it was a mind-bender of creating duplicate Leaguers, and even a dupe of planet Earth. Man, the ’60s. Maybe I missed a mention that Kanjar was a recurring character in Hawkworld, but as a toady government administrative type. It’s not a bad use for the character, but undercuts how ridiculously powerful he’d been.
Onyx: I had the pleasure of covering a Katana story drawn by J K Moore, and it’s exquisite. It’s interesting to see that he portrays 3 gorgeous women, none of whom wore skin-tight costumes at the time: Onyx, Katana, and Black Canary. I read those Detective Comics in conjunction with my podcast for the Bat-connection, and am an even bigger fan after that. I need to keep up with his Facebook postings better. And yes, this image of Onyx burned into my brain rent-free that she’s instantly recognizable. Her appearance has changed a lot since then, with the shaved head deal, giving her an Okoye from Black Panther feel. It’s not bad, but so different. She even popped up this year in Birds of Prey.
I’ll sign off saying I would be incensed if my listing didn’t give my height as 6′ 1¼”. You don’t short a man by ¼! That’s just manners! (Insert off color joke here.)
Tim, I honestly thought you were even taller. Either I’m losing what little height I had, or that quarter inch makes a world of difference.
Why would DC turn down any Alan Moore pitch? I was mad when I found out about the Martian Manhunter story that he wanted to write & now I learn about the Bizarro World idea he had & I’m mad again!
Multi-Man’s base of operations is Allovahdeplaze? Really?
This guy was a joke even before JLI, wasn’t he?
🙂
Another great episode.
I agree that the Bizarro in Challenge of the Superfriends was far more menacing than the one goofing around on the square planet. He actually frightened me somewhat when I was a kid. For a similar take in the comics, read DC Special #6, from 1977; he joins Grodd’s incarnation of the Secret Society of Super-Villains, and he’s pretty badass. As someone who thought the joke of the goofy Bizarro got old really fast, I prefer him more threatening.
Colonel Computron has been in live-action? What is this world we live in?
Yes, Kanjar Ro was reinterpreted as a sleazy politician in Hawkword, which I think fits him much better; we already have a plenty of all-powerful alien conquerors, and it’s hard to take this guy seriously when he looks and dresses like that.
The League of Challenger-Haters has to be the worst name for a villain group ever—where did these guys meet, in a backyard treehouse? And the idea of superheroes having private prisons has always struck me as wonky—it was one of my major criticisms of the CW Flash series, before I gave up on it. Who feeds these people? How can they just sit there all day without going crazy? You can’t even give them a magazine?
Yes, War Games wasn’t great, but I remember enjoying the inclusion of the new-look Onyx. And Matt Sirois is 100% right—she looks like she raided Sheila E.’s closet.
I could be wrong, but I think I read that in current or recent DC continuity, we sort of got more Golden Age Speedy, with the present day archer duo traveling back in time to join the Seven Soldiers of Victory. Or am I fanficking in my dreams again?
Stalker was indeed the primary villain the return-of-the-JSA story from the late ’90s that led into Robinson’s new JSA monthly. I assumed he was (essentially) the same dude, but maybe I’m mistaken.
I’m sure a lot of us pictured the Trigger Twins working at Blockbuster Video. That was probably the high school job of a solid 25% of Gen Xers. BTW, Shagg, the twin-themed TV series you’re trying to remember…was it The Patty Duke Show (where they were actually identical cousins)? Or The Suite Life of Zack & Cody?
Another DC writer who drew a Who’s Who entry was Len Wein, who handled Despero. It was well done, but there was virtually no surprint (It was just a bunch of floating eyes, as I recall).
I probably wrote this last month, but count me as a no vote on Sydney Sweeney playing Power Girl. Putting aside the idiotic political controversy, I think PG should be tall, muscular, and Amazonian (certainly more Amazonian than Gal Gadot, ironically).
I’ve discovered something great about the Who’s Who theme song: It’s perfect to sing along to with new, made-up lyrics about your pet(s). Even if you have only one animal, you can list all the reasons they’re so damn cute.
Noah, the CW Flash show’s online presence had a running blog online about Cisco caring for the prisoners, trying to get them to agree on a movie for movie night, etc. I think it was more consistently entertaining than the show.
You’re right. Green Arrow and Speedy did travel back in time and spent quite a while in the “Golden Age”. That was courtesy of Geoff Johns. I’m not sure if he was picking up on that photograph from All-Star Squadron, but it wouldn’t surprise me, since he was a bit of a continuity buff. But not to the same extent as Roy Thomas.
Yay! Another episode of Who’s Who Review!
I love Kanjar Ro. There is something about those bug eyes, the Gamma Metal Gong, the Space Boat, the energi-rod. You just don’t get villains like that nowadays. And they never ruined him by trying to make him more menacing and threatening a la Despero.
The Onyx entry is quite good. And yes, she does have a very Sheila E./Vanity/Apollonia Prince-adjacent vibe.
The Terrific Whatzit Zoom’s Who entry is fantastic! I always appreciated the decision to make him Fastback’s uncle. If Roy Thomas couldn’t connect everything in the DC Universe, it wasn’t for lack of trying.
Finally, I found the “powers and weapons” section of The Privateer entry funny. “As Manhunter, Mark Shaw was given extensive physical training that made him a formidable hand-to-hand combatant. He carries a baton that fires powerful energy blasts. As the Star Tsar, Shaw uses weaponry that fires stellar energy. As the Privateer … Shaw wields a sword.”
Great episode! My day always brightens when I see that there is a new episode of who’s who. Just a few thoughts on some of the art…
1 Bizarro World is amazing! I live this silly take on all the characters. The precursor to Geoff Johns sinestro corps!
2 Col. Computron seems like a natural partner in crime of Toyman or maybe Killg%re
3 Deadman is my favorite piece of the selections this month. I live the character so I might be biased. Besides not being able to see around his collar, does that thing just collect water in the rain or what?
4 DeSaad looks like he’s practicing for his Olympic speed skating trials. Because this is who’s who, you know he’s probably at near Olympian levels in abilities.
5 Green Arrow is too cool for any fancy action pose.
6 Kanjar Ro looks like he’s hitting the final step of a well choreographed dance routine.
7 Speedy is so young in this pic. With his dirty Sanchez mustache, who would enter think he’d turn it to be a 1 armed heroine addict?
Finally, thank you, thank you, thank you! I’m a world where it feels like no one ever listens to one another, you guys truly listened to me! I started my No more Morts crusade in jest and never expected anything. But to hear Rob try so hard not to use the word, really filled my heart with glee. I even told my 80 year old father about the while things and he thought it was great! His comment was “Score one for the Morts!” Just another reason you guys on Fire and Water Network are the absolute best community in the podcast world. You guys actually care about your listeners. Again thank you for your courtesy and keep up the great work.
Talked about Bizarro recently with Chuck Coletta on DC Secret Files. As a kid, I found all that Bizarro World stuff annoying, but I loosened up, and better creators tackled the concept over time. Now I’ve got a copy of Bizarro Comics with a Matt Groening cover on my bookshelf. The Super Friends Bizarro was more like the Byrne Flying Frankenstein take, which is “scarier” I guess, but not terribly unique. There’s already a deep bench of dark mirror Men of Steel.
I think Colonel Computron’s unrevealed Alter Ego was “Recency Bias”. Reminds me of how the Updates were defined by Revision banners and characters that only matter to you if you were 11 at some point between 1987-1988. To Rob, the entirety of Update 1993 is Colonel Computron. If only he’d fought the TRS-80 Whiz Kids instead!
Deadman was in the only issue of Who’s Who that I bought new, when I wasn’t much of a DC fan. He was so well drawn over the years, and looked so cool, that I repeatedly sought out Deadman material. It took a long time to realize that he wasn’t much of a character, and didn’t have much relevancy in the DCU, so I developed an indifference toward even nice profile art from JLGL.
I definitely knew of DeSaad first, and spent years associating references to The Marquis with a Super Powers action figure. Now the reverse is more true, where I have to remind myself that the New Gods guy was probably a low key psychosexual sadist like the dude from Quills, instead of just a Darkseid toady. Greg Theakston crystalize the most default qualities of late life Kirby. Yep, that sure meets my minimum expectations, bringing that Secret City Saga vibe.
Martin having a go at this Green Arrow logo just shows how spoiled we were. Most logos in the 21st Century have been lame ass fonts with some vector tweaks. The rollout of the New 52 title fonts felt positively Orwellian, and I’ve passed on many a DC reprint volume that used fonts instead of the original hand-drawn logos. More specifically though, Green Arrow has historically had limp logos, so this one from the 1983 mini-series is the best he ever got. There’s a damned arrow hitting a bullseye “O” in the word “ArrOw”. The “A” even kinda forms a bow. Is there no pleasing you?
Joe Kelly and Doug Mahnke making Kanjar Ro pound protein shakes was just another way they caused the juggernaut that was JLA to crash into the rocks. Lucky me, Steroid-Ro is the version I’ll have to cover relatively soon on DC Secret Files, via his JLA-Z entry. I know that he’s got a bad case of Silver Age silly, but if you read his early stories, he’s pretty impressive when getting the better of other alien conquerors and the JLofA.
Have you ever heard the Dorothy Parker quote, “You can lead a horticulture, but you can’t make her think”? The Kung entry reminded me of the time I sent Shag all four volumes of the non-powered Diana Prince trades that featured Doctor Cyber’s earliest appearances nearly a decade ago, and yet the Wonder Woman/rogues gallery slander remains a Who’s Who constant. I just left a proper Who’s Who screed in The Monitor Tapes comments in hopes of having better luck correcting their faulty impression of the Amazing Amazon than with you old dogs (or would “Jane, you ignorant slut” be more appropo to this analogy?) Admittedly, it was Rob bringing the heat, and the less said about the Aquaman rogues gallery… is two less things said. There’s just the two rogues. Is there a minimum number of rogues to form a gallery, because I’m pretty sure it’s more than two? Cheetah and Giganta were on Super Friends, which is twice as many villains as Aquaman got there, or anywhere actually. The Human Flying Fish Shrine guy might want to sit this argument out.
The problem with the Multi-Man entry is that he just can’t hold your interest when his own entry pivots to concepts like The League of Challenger-Haters, who would rightly protest extrajudicial incarceration on Challenger Mountain. There was a short-lived creator-owned DC series in the ’90s called Chain Gang War that was centered on that premise. I get why DC wouldn’t want to negotiate the reprinting of a failed series, but David Johnson drew most/all of it, and it’s probably the most sequential art that he ever produced for a series. Dude couldn’t even finish Superman: Red Son.
Jerome K. Moore is more or less the only reason I ever knew who Onyx was, or wished more for her. I think Matt Sirois was in the right ballpark, but I also think her look skews a bit more Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam, with a touch of The Jets. All of the Prince ingenues were tarted up (an observation, not a criticism) in lingerie or skintight/bearing Lycra. When I caught the limited re-release of Sign o’ the Times earlier this year, I think I could make out Cat Glover’s cervix on the silver screen. Onyx looks like she may have been modeled after Ola Ray, dressed like she co-starred in Captain Eo instead of Thriller. What a weirdly Green Arrow-centric episode.
Continuing on that theme, you know who would have been a good foe for the Emerald Archer? Privateer, or really any Mark Shaw identity. He makes a lot more sense in that capacity than as a Superman villain who unseats Talia in the Shadow Society of Assassins League LLC, or whatever the hell Event Leviathan was supposed to be. Again, cursed knowledge from Who’s Editing research.
I fretted a bit when I saw that we were both going to cover Green Arrow and Speedy on podcasts a few days apart, and there was even some overlap regarding the “nobody knows the Golden Age origin/doesn’t have anything to do with an island” angle. Luckily, I think they mostly compliment each other. We went deeper into the Golden Age stuff as part of a Golden-Silver bridge perspective on Ollie, and I don’t recall ya’ll getting into Speedy’s Silver Age origin at all. Plus I have the “benefit” of having to cover a ton of entries for Ollie and Roy between the actual Secret Files, JLA-Z, and the like. I can afford to hyper-focus on specific periods, because we can cover the character incrementally, instead of all at once. Also, those are clearly smile lines (and a shadow coming off the nose,) not a baby ‘stache.
Steve Ditko needed work and Stalker was a wicked series. I do miss Woody on the polish here, but it’s still a good entry. Seriously, it’s only four issues– go read ’em!
I’m going to make the argument that Carmine Infantino should have statted the one Trigger Twin, so he could have spent more time making the one drawing less wonky. When did the Twin at left encounter a voodoo witch doctor that partially succeeded at shrinking his head? I bet that was a rippin’ yarn. Why do they look 5’0″ instead of six, and.. uh… there’s, like, a crotch situation going on here that shouldn’t be faced by identical twins. Were they supposed to be triples, but one of the twins absorbed it?
I’m going to argue the Streisand Effect has made Chris Mort this episode’s Mort of the Month.
I’ll say more later but the show Shag was thinking of was Patty Duke show.
https://youtu.be/Mr8nJfD7sKE
I thought the same thing Liz. Unless he was thinking of The Parent Trap. But he said TV show, and I immediately starting singing the theme song!
https://youtu.be/4N4njD_WWtA
Or Double Trouble
Since Shag is a Gen Cer like me he may have meant double Triuvle the shoe with Katy Segsl’s sisters. Yep the lady from Married with Children . And sons of anarchy had an Olsen twins situation where her older sisters had a show before she did though she became better now this may have been what was talking with the Triger Twins I’ll say more later
Great fun as always, gents. JLGL and Mike Grell rocked the assignment, but Jerome K. Moore and Namiko Hideaki-Yukinori knocked it out of the park. Xum, too, with that entry text.
Finally, thank you very much for all the things the Fire & Water Network does for me. Never think I don’t appreciate it. And if you only do it because you’re a fan of my wife, then I applaud your judgment and taste.
(She loved the mention, by the way — very flattered.)
Mighty Mouse premiered in 1942 so he beats Whatzit for sure.
There was a moment in childhood where I had an odd fascination with building a robot. It passed, and anyway, I barely recall any mention of 2-XL. I was curious, so I watched a YouTube video on it. There was something off because a) 2-XL talked like a nebbish who worked at a Katz’s in Queens, b) he/it didn’t really make Randomizer sounds, and 3) it ran on a cassette tape, not an 8-track like Rob mentioned. Apparently, 2-XL was revived in the early-to-mid ’90s by Tiger Electronics, and exploited the left/right audio channels while accessing both sides to create four tracks for questions and answers. So I kept looking until I found the 1978-1981 version produced by Mego, and sure enough, it does make Randomizer sounds via 8-track.
Shag, while discussing future 2026 and 2027 dates at the 2:21:30 mark of this episode, you mentioned the Lee Majors film where he drove a car across the country. That movie is one of my guilty pleasures: “The Last Chase” from 1981. Another notable star is Burgess Meredith, and it was set in the far, far future of 2011.
Great episode, gentlemen! I agree with those who say the evil version of Bizarro from Challenge of the Superfriends was cooler than the more comic-accurate version. His voice was scary. The only weakness of this Bizarro was that he could not punch his way out of a plastic bag from Batman’s utility belt.
Onyx made it to the Young Justice cartoon, mostly due to Jerome Moore working on it.
Star-Tsar just now struck me that he could be the evil Earth-1 Starman, like the E-1 Johnny Thunder.
Sorry I missed the email, I’ll see to it this weekend.
It’s not often I get called out as an SME in a comics discussion, but yes, everyone should be uncomfortable with the idea that superheroes confine their prisoners, super or not, without some sort of due process and oversight by a third party. I’m not sure what it would look like, but I can guarantee it would be boring as hell to a reader. There would have to be some allowance for immediate and extraordinary methods of confinement based on the subject’s threat level and power set, but again, we can’t think too hard about it or it distracts from the fun of the story.
What most prisons, jails and other confinement settings must comply with (at least for accreditation) are standards set by the American Correctional Association. Read through a few of those standards, and while you’ll immediately understand their importance and why they should not be taken for granted, you will likely doze off fairly quickly. Although…maybe it would be interesting to read a story of Belle Reve failing an ACA audit when they discover the bombs on the wrists, or worse…heads, of the members of the Suicide Squad.
What has bugged me for decades in the arena of prisons for villains is when they let them wear their costumes in prison. Granted, it simplifies the storytelling, but it still bugged me!
Quick shoutouts on some entries in this great episode:
Deadman – something that I always thought was cool was the the city based named of Boston Brand and his twin brother, Cleveland Brand. The JLGL (PBHN) in this entry stands heads and shoulders about most entries throughout the entire series. such realism like this seemed to be reserved for JLGL, Neal Adams and Mike Grell in the bronze age.
Desaad – probably my favorite New God villain. I always pictured those greasy locks being pasted to his forehead.
Speedy of Earth II – I had it in my head he died with GA in CoIE, but apparently he ignobly just faded from memory like so many others.
Onyx – One of my favorite obscure characters. I was happy to see her back in the recent Birds of Prey series by Kelly Thompson.
Privateer – Convoluted or not, one of my favorite JLA storylines of my childhood.
Another spectacular episode, gents. I was irrationally happy that the Randomizer gifted us with Onyx this time. Christmas came early! I read all of her appearances back when those issues of ‘TEC were coming out and I was just in awe of Jerome K. Moore’s art. Then I bought the issue of Who’s Who with her and it instantly became one of my top five entries of the series, thanks in part to my fondness for those Green Arrow backups, but thanks largely to Moore’s absolutely stunning Who’s Who entry. Now THAT is how you draw a character standing still yet STILL make them look more dynamic than most characters look in action poses. She looks SO badass—and, to quote Shag, so HOT. The portrait in the surprint is gorgeous as well. I know the costume is a little “extra” but when Moore draws Onyx in it, the costume looks positively iconic.
Great episode, guys!
The Colonel Computron entry always bugged me because of the floating heads at the top. The one on the far right looks like Mama Cass, so I guess Colonel Computron could be defeated with a dry ham sandwich?
Whatever Happened To…?
• Bizarro World: Bizarro World was just featured in an arc of Batman/Superman: World’s Finest (Interestingly, Mark Waid was also fascinated by the actual structure of a square planet, and why it is so dangerous). In the story, the Bizarros were being converted to “normal” humans and were desperate to stop it. They didn’t want to become a human anymore than a human wants to become a Bizarro. Bizarro and Batzarro teamed up with Superman, Batman, and Robin to revert the conversions and restabilize the planet. Bizarro World also apparently phases between Universe-0 and Universe-29.
Bizarro Yellow Lantern is the Sinestro Corps member for Sector 1284.
• Colonel Computron: Basil was last seen trying to hack into his former employer’s accounts to rob them. He was stopped by Sugar & Spike: Private Investigators. Because they beat the Flash to the punch (hey-o!), they have become the go-to for the super-hero community when something embarrassing needs to be disposed of discretely (like multi-colored costumes when you primarily wear blue and gray, or a marriage certificate form when you almost married a monster, or that you made an island in your own image).
• Deadman: He is a member of the Justice League, currently working with the covert Justice League Red. He recently had a team-up with Nightwing as they tracked down supernatural kidnappings of circus entertainers and workers.
• Desaad: After Darkseid’s death, Desaad and others of the Apokolips Elite joined together with Maxwell Lord, a traitorous Serifan (who may have killed the rest of the Forever People?), and others to try and corrupt a young boy who has the potential to grow into a new god. During this endeavor, he altered himself to be handsome and charming. He was captured after Mister Miracle showed him what true pain actually is.
• Green Arrow: After his latest round of coming back from the dead, Ollie successfully reunited his entire Arrow family – Black Canary, Arsenal (Roy Harper), Connor Hawke, Speedy (Mia Dearden), Cheshire Cat (Lian Harper), John Diggle, Red Arrow (Emiko Queen), Arrowette (Cissie King-Jones), and Red Canary (Sienna). While Ollie infiltrated Amanda Waller’s inner circle to help take her down during Absolute Power and is still a Leaguer in good standing, after the time-hopping, multiversal craziness he is rededicating himself to street-level crimefighting in Star City.
• Kanjar Ro: Kanjar Ro had been imprisoned in the Sciencells by the Green Lantern Corps on Oa. However, during the Starbreaker Supremacy, the inmates were given their freedom in exchange for defending Oa. It is unclear what has happened to him following that battle – or if he even survived.
• Kung: The original Kung – Tommy Morita – died in the bombing of Hiroshima – after he was convinced by the Americans to end the war and was travelling to see Emperor Hirohito to accept surrender. Enraged by the Americans for not giving him time to end the war, his spirit attempted to gain revenge against the Justice Society – finally played out in 2009. As a result, his soul was destroyed by the Spectre. It was also revealed that he was part of a mission of Vandal Savage’s on Dinosaur Island in 1927, fighting against Enemy Ace, Bat-Lash, and Biff Bradley (1998’s Guns of the Dragon mini by Tim Truman).
A second Kung appeared and did battle against Wonder Woman, but was easily taken out by her ally in that fight – Robin (Tim). Another Tommy Morita has recently become an agent of A.R.G.U.S.
• Multi-Man: Duncan has not been seen in a few years. At one point, he was used by the Joker to escape prison – he kept killing Pramble until he resurrected with powers that would get them out.
Side note: comic writer Stephanie Williams told me at two different cons that she desperately wants to write a Justice League Antarctica mini-series. She’s done amazing work on Nubia, and she wrote the fantastic book “Strange and Unsung All-Stars of the DC Multiverse” in 2023. So, let’s put it out there and make it happen!
• Onyx: It turns out that Onyx Adams is actually an Amazon. She is a member of the Birds of Prey. Sadly, she no longer rocks the headband.
• Privateer: Event Leviathan… ugh. He died at the end and pretty much everything he did has been undone.
• Speedy of Earth-Two: Speedy was the only Golden Age hero removed from continuity during the Crisis on Infinite Earths whose death was never shown. As mentioned above, it has recently been established that all the Golden Age adventures of Green Arrow and Speedy were by a time-lost Ollie and Roy early in their careers (it was also re-established that the Green Arrows of the World existed).
• Stalker: Stalker did indeed walk the planes of mortal men for eons, eventually gaining enough mystic might to become a war god in his home dimension. During WWII, he was summoned to Earth by inept cultists who were trying to summon a demon for the Nazis. The entire Justice Society (and a few others like Mark Shaw, Tigress, Speed Saunders, Star-Spangled Kid & Stripesy, and Dr. Occult) fought together to defeat him and sent him back to his own time/dimension.
A second Stalker was briefly seen during the New 52 era. This Stalker was from Earth and the demon he made a deal with was Lucifer himself. By the 21st Century, Stalker had gained enough magical powers to defy Lucifer and save his just-born descendant. Whether he survived the restoration of time by Dr. Manhattan during the Rebirth has not been revealed.
• Trigger Twins: The original Trigger Twins – Walt and Wayne – are still firmly established as part of the Earth-0 old west. The current-day criminal Trigger Twins have tangled with Nightwing and the Flash (Barry). There is also a set of Trigger Twins on Earth-18 as part of the Justice Riders, and they are that world’s speedsters.
• The Terrific Whatzit: Merton is probably still on Earth-26 (aka Earth-C), as the Cartoon Physics of that universe means that nothing is truly fatal – even Crises. His nephew Fastback is still a member of the Zoo Crew. The Terrific Whatzit is a pet of Wally West on Earth-508 (DC Super Friends) and a member of the Super Pets in the world of Tiny Titans.