Fire & Water #164 – Aquaman #51/Legends of Tomorrow #2

It's review week! Shag and Rob discuss "Scavenger Hunt" from AQUAMAN #51 by Dan Abnett, Vicente Cifuentes, Juan Castro, and more. That's followed by "United We Fall, Part 2" from LEGENDS OF TOMORROW #2 by Gerry Conway, Eduardo Pansica, Rob Hunter, and more! Plus YOUR Listener Feedback!

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Opening theme, "That Time is Now," by Michael Kohler. Closing music by The White Stripes.

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22 responses to “Fire & Water #164 – Aquaman #51/Legends of Tomorrow #2

  1. Great show as ever, you boys really are the three-eyed Kryptonian babootch’s knees. I love that you discussed all the LoT strips.

    Er, about that 10,000ft level bit, I may have made that up just to amuse Shagg, I thought he’d appreciate the gag… then again, maybe it does say that, I could be remembering it correctly.

    That’s a brilliant idea someone came up with about Monica dosing Jason. What a ratbag. Is she the new Cliff Carmichael? The MonThinker?

    There is no way that Sugar and Spike artist Bilquis Evely – who’s female – is not working to layouts by Keith Giffen – see my review for an example.
    Which doesn’t mean she’s not excellent.

    Shagg’s deliberately horrendous singing was obviously a subtle plug for Meryl Steep’s new film, Florence Foster Jenkins.

    Nice shout-out to Stella’s mega podcast. Did you listen to enough of it to get to me ruining the whole thing?

    Get well soon, Xum, and congratulations for whatever, Luke!

  2. Fun show, although now Rob will have to explain that end song to Shag.

    Wow, that panel of Mera looks like something that belongs in a Lady Death comic. Gravity and anatomy need not apply. I have no problem with chesty comic characters (believe me, I don’t), but let’s not go all Jim Balent here.

    As for Shag’s one-man debate on just how “cal-lassic” Ronnie and Stein’s Firestorm is…I can see his point, but just because it’s been 30 years since that configuration was in use, doesn’t mean it’s not the best way to go. It’s amazing to think comic creators have been so hesitant to just go back to what works. But often new creators thinks they can improve on a proven concept, and do it better, in an effort to put their stamp on a character or title. They rarely succeed, unfortunately. Look how long it took DC to finally give us the Big 7 Justice League again back in the late 90s. They were hellbent NOT to do that, it seemed, while sales swirled down the toilet.

    I find it very depressing that a comic that sold only 18,000 copies is considered a decent success. Wow. The fact that a Superman comic is selling below that is even more depressing!


  3. Having lived in Maine I have been trying to place where Spindrift and Amnesty Bay might be. It has been stated before that it is in Northern Maine. Though there is a problem with this in that there aren’t any coastal areas in Northern Maine. Down East being the farthest north the coast goes. I always assumed this was the areas that Amnesty Bay was placed. But since they show skyscrapers near Spindrift station this creates problems. First the only place on the coast in Maine that has skyscrapers like that is Portland and that is in southern Maine nearish the boarder of New Hampshire. And Second Portland is Maine’s largest city and only has around 66,000 people so it’s hard to imagine what other coastal area would have skyscrapers. Now yes it’s the DC universe and they could of just plopped a city down in Maine where ever they want but it would be nice to be able to mentally say where it is.

    1. For what it’s worth, Mera was once depicted wearing a Moody’s Diner shirt in the lighthouse. That jumped out at me since I’ve eaten there. Now it could have been from a road trip, but I’ve always put Amnesty Bay somewhere Mid Coast.

      1. Well I always figure it was Down east 1 as it is the most northern shore section and two no one claims to live their. Every time I talked to some one it was Oh Down east is a couple miles north of here. (go north a couple miles) Talk to those people Down east is a couple mile south of here. It’s like the opposite of the Mid-West where everyone says they live in the midwest even if they Don’t (I’m looking at you North and South Dakota). So it makes since that Arthur would live in a place that everyone is like no man you need to go over there to be there.

  4. Great show as always.
    I think the writer got the Scavenger’s secret identity wrong, Abnett added 4 too many letters to the last name. Because if anyone is a Mort, it’s that dude. I get ribbed for liking Reactron and you guys are waxing the Scavenger’s car. Hee hee.

    As for Mera’s pulchritude … well it is quite impressive in this issue. Mercy.

    I suppose Firestorm heading back to Ronnie/Stein makes sense given the Rebirth pledge of a return to legacy and classic nature. Too bad. I do hope the idea of all three being capable of being Firestorm is a great,one. Lots of combos to play with. Maybe even each one has a different power st.

  5. I hate to point this out in case it causes it to evaporate, but Shag and Rob seem quite functional together right now. Rob is downright sunny most episodes, right down to mocking his own grumbling. Shag’s digs at Rob are completely half hearted too. It sounds like they’re holding hands while they record.

    Perhaps it’s because of the upswing in the Aquaman book and the return of Gerry Conway Firestorm. Is this a sign of the end times?

    1. After the Batman v Superman special, we’re all trying to be nicer, sunnier people. We had to sign new contracts and everything. 😉

      They are known as the BvS Accords.


      1. BvS Accords that’s awesome Chris. Also maybe a reference to a recent super hero movie that didn’t suck maybe? just maybe??

  6. I wonder if Ronnie and Jason, and by extension Gerry Conway (and also Shag’s son) understand that “Netflix and Chill” doesn’t really refer to watching Netflix and/or chilling.

  7. Very fun ep guys. Shag’s version of rob’s reviews was “Aquaman, he swam around and stabbed someone with a trident. DONE!” had me laughing. But Shag, not knowing who The Stripes are?? Really??

  8. Another fun episode, guys. Your unplanned crack ups always make me snicker too. The letter Shag read from the listener who found his way out of the darkness by listening to podcasts like yours was so moving. Thanks for sharing that. Your podcast has been a major sense of enjoyment in your listeners lives for years now. That listener’s letter said it well: it’s a real pleasure to listen to two fellas just talk about something they love and are passionate about. It reminds me of conversations I have with one of my best friends (and really one of the only friends I talk comics with, outside of the folks I know at my local comics shop). That friend and I don’t live near each other so most of our convos are over texts or Facebook, but for someone like me who doesn’t have a lot of people in his daily life to talk comics with, your show is a wonderful place for me to get that fix.

    You guys are making me want to continue reading the Sugar and Spike portion of Legends of Tomorrow! I might have to do what Rob’s planning and pick it up in a trade later. I loved the art also, Rob, but I’ve never heard of the artist either.

    As always, I appreciate Shag dissing my other writing ventures because nothing will please him unless I write about Batman and the Outsiders. Shag, you did give me a very good idea though…I certainly could dip my toes into the BATO writing waters by drafting a piece for the site I wrote for ( Of course they’d probably reply to me with a shrug and “Who wants to read that?” But I might do it yet! Stay tuned…

    I’m still gobsmacked that Shag doesn’t know the White Stripes. This was just a bit, right? A little joshing, good natured fun? Please tell me that’s what it was. Damn, I still miss that band.

  9. So taking into account that the conservation of energy is really not be followed and with that much of a change the reaction doesn’t appear to be either endothermic nor exothermic and of course understanding that P=B^C. Here is the in comic logic that I think could be followed to allow that tear drop to allow the transformation to dead water. The fact that he was being balanced at the life death dehydration point and the fact that the doctor 1)is not happy about doing this to him and 2) is only human and therefor 3) would probably err on the side of giving him to much as to not kill him and the fact that the water is kept in balance by being injected into him but excess moisture is evaporated away could lead to this. So the mind hits a point that is distraught enough that even with the amazingly low level of moister in his system it still does what it can to have him cry. Now this is only one tear but since he is so close to the life death moister balance the instruments which read his internal moister warn that he is critically low and will die if he doesn’t get more. And if he is that critically close it could have put the water in him once it hit that point thus creating more moister in the chamber (especially sense tear water evaporates at a different rate that sweat and the amount of sweat at any place is a lot smaller from sweat glands compared to tear ducts).

  10. Really fun show, Shagg and Rob. Dan Abnett has really improved Aquaman immeasurably from the last run and look forward to what’s in store for Aquaman on Rebirth.

  11. This podcast is very…….”good – adjacent”
    The way Mera is being drawn now just makes me think ….. “motorboat”

  12. hey guys.

    shag, if you remember i had talked to Ethan about his run of firestorm of the new 52 and his ideas of where he wanted the book to go.
    and 2 of his ideas was to make firestorm Ronnie and martin stein again. and then turning Jason heel (a bad guy…a villain….)
    so maybe that’s what Gerry is doing.

  13. With the next classic Firestorm set to feature Slipknot, it looks like there might be a spoiler about everyone’s favorite rope wrangler in this link for the upcoming Suicide Squad calendar:

    Rather closer to on-topic, I was going to hold out on Legends of Tomorrow and just get the Firestorm (and maybe Metamorpho) trade. I changed my tune a bit and reviewed the first issue for Comicosity, but was determined to hold at tradewaiting (after all, we gotta support InStockTRades, right?).

    Except Cliff. So I bought #2. Which then ended with Reddy. So I bought #3. And now, I’m enjoying the heck out of this series. Sugar & Spike surprised me as my personal fave of the four, but that just ensures each issue is going to have enough to keep my interest.

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