Fire & Water #253 – 10 Years Later Aquaman and Firestorm Still Bring Us Joy

10 Year Anniversary Episode! Shag and Rob celebrate ten years(!) of podcasting, discussing two classic tales starring Aquaman and Firestorm--"The Manhunt on Land" from ADVENTURE COMICS #267 by Robert Bernstein and Ramona Fradon, and "Danger Doubled is Death" from FIRESTORM #2 by Gerry Conway and Al Milgrom!

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Opening theme by Michael Kohler. Closing theme by The Bad Mamma Jammas.

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Thanks for listening! Fan the Flame and Ride the Wave! 

27 responses to “Fire & Water #253 – 10 Years Later Aquaman and Firestorm Still Bring Us Joy

  1. Happy 10th Anniversary Mr Kelly and Mr Shag . Thank you and everyone on the Fire n Water Network for letting me remember to find my joy too
    …personally i totally understand that the love for our favorite characters ( mine is Joker ) has to do with the love we have for them from our past memories and encounters ,.. and that they grew up with us , living and acting infinite comic scenarios inside our own psyches … That’s why most modern or future versions could never quite live up to the standards we carry within us for our favourite heroes or villains ( but we can only hope they will once in a while )
    P.S … Joker War Sucked IMO .. but i liked Three Jokers

  2. Happy anniversary! Thanks for all the hours of entertaining & informative pop culture talk. Also, it’s been a blast for me to pop up on a couple of your episodes over the years. Looking forward to what lies ahead. The best is yet to come!

    Still waiting for a Dick Tracy podcast.

    1. I second the vote for more Dick Tracy content. When I was little it was the one newspaper strip I used to cut out and paste into a scrap book.

  3. Congratulations to the happy couple!

    “Luckily I had ignorance.” — Rob K.


    Aren’t we all. Once I interviewed the great composer and conductor Pierre Boulez for college radio. Marched right up to this great man and asked him for an interview— and he generously gave me an hour of his time. The thing is, I barely knew who he was. I was completely ignorant. And had I not been, if I had understood the magnitude of this great musician, I would have been scared you-know-what-less and would never have asked him for an interview. “Luckily I had ignorance.”

    Rob: you say “go on and on about the underprivileged” like it’s a bad thing.

    How and when did they get rid of the one-hour-out-of-water thing with Aquaman, anyway? Was there an in-canon story or was it just editorial fiat?

    I’m going to name my next band Shark Norton.

    Or maybe Ersatz Godzilla.

    Or maybe Letters by Ben Oda.

    Or maybe Superman D*ckery.

    If you ever need to name a band, just listen to Fire and Water Podcast!

    You ever wonder about the point where Danton Black figures out that he has powers now, and decides, you know, I’m going to dress in a crazy costume with a helmet, shave my mustache, and refer to myself with a villain name? All off panel, I guess.

    Firestorm identifies Multiplex as Danton Black. How did -Ronnie- know who Danton Black is? Apparently, Martin told him off panel.

    I have to say, Gerry Conway really had talent. What if Flash Thompson got the powers? Indeed. Gerry Conway could make me sympathize with the perspective of a high school jock. That really took talent. I had no great love for the jocks in my high school in real life. (Come to think of it, Cliff really does work as a mirror universe evil version of Peter Parker, down to the wisecracks.)

    No sooner did I speculate about Danton Black’s decision to become Multiplex… Shag actually mentions it. Never mind. My thoughts are redundant.

    How much of a d*ck can Superman be if he gives Hostess cupcakes to people indiscriminately?

    We didn’t see the floating Martin Stein head in the origin issue. This is echoed by the TV Firestorm— we never saw a floating Victor Garber head on TV. And I for one feel cheated.

    You never covered Fury of Firestorm in the 50s? No King Crusher episode? I for one feel cheated… again. Firestorm meets pro wrestling. What’s not to love?

    Anyway, Mazel Tov on Ten fun-filled years, seriously! Thanks for the entertainment and memories.

  4. Congratulations on your 10th Anniversary! Unfortunately, I wasn’t around for the first 99 episodes. I began listening with episode 100 which covered Justice League of America #200. That was the perfect place to start because it included a bunch of the Fire and Water family as special guests. Before that episode I didn’t listen to any podcasts regularly. Now I have a bunch that I follow and the Fire and Water Podcast Network is at the top of my list.

    My favorite memories:

    I LOVE the network’s mission statement – find your joy. I’m visually disabled and live in constant pain so that philosophy is really important in my life.

    I loved the jokes you used to make about Slipknot getting a movie, Aquaman getting a big budget movie and being a major star and Firestorm being part of a super hero team TV show. That those all came to pass blew my mind.

    I loved you reading feedback from Count Drunkula, having Earth-2 Chris on one episode with Rob about Power Records and the time you two talked about the mail you got from a Who’s Who fan in Japan. Ryan, Chris and Xum all became integral parts of the network. Like everyone else, I still miss Xum a ton. He was brilliant and an amazing podcaster and as a fellow disabled person, he was a real inspiration to me.

    My single favorite segment was a bit that Chris recorded for Who’s Who where he interviewed Robin about not being center stage on the cover of the R issue.

    Thank you for so many hours of joy filled listening. I regularly go back and relisten to old episodes of all the different shows. I cannot wait to hear what the future holds!

    1. My best friend since I was 11 years old (I’m 47 now) was blind. When we were kids, we used to pretend to be Firestorm and go on Firestorm adventures. I was the Martin Stein figure, and he could use my “eyes” to see as Firestorm. My friend is no longer with us and I’ve been thinking a lot about him today.

  5. Nice trip down memory lane, both with the history of your podcast and with the classic tales of Arthur, Ronnie and Martin. Congratulations.

    Back when I discover you in 2015, it was awesome as none of my friends (the ones that were comic book fans) were DC Comics fans. Not that Marvel didn’t have its own charm, but DC in the Bronze Age was just terrific. And I will always be grateful for Shag’s comment on my main blog, on an entry about Multiplex.

    As a blogger for about as long as you guys, it’s sometimes wishful thinking about starting a podcast. But then again, it takes a special fanboy or fangirl to transition into a “destination” podcaster. And you two are the masters. Thanks for bringing us along on your journey.

  6. Congratulations on getting to the 10th anniversary! I really enjoyed your Very Special Episode today. And I was pleasantly surprised to be called out not once, but twice~! Thank you very much! (You’ll be happy to know that I left my angry pants in the wash.)

    The fantastically awesome Aquaman-Green Arrow team-up that wasn’t a team-up was reprinted in both the Aquaman Archive (the first and so-far only) and also in Showcase Presents Aquaman #1 (the black-and-white collection). And also in Super-Team Family #3, which is where I first read it. I agree with both of you, it is charming and definitely worth tracking down.

    Lastly, I want to get a bit mushy. A few times during your broadcast I got all kerfluffered thinking about the last ten years and what we have all gone through. I want to say without a touch of sarcasm that you two are directly responsible for a lot of happiness in my life, and I want to THANK YOU for the podcast, the network, and the friendships. You have been the rock I can lean on, the light I can look forward to, and the joy that I sometimes can’t find locally. And I know that I am not the only one!! Thank you, from the bottom of my heart!
    Your pal,
    Little Russell Burbage
    from Rimbor

  7. Congratulations on your ten year anniversary guys!
    It’s a testament to your true adoration of these characters that you can still find your joy in their “classic” adventures. I too have become jaded and cynical about most of the comics being released over the past decade, but whenever I take those beloved comics from my childhood out of the king box I still get that gleeful sensation of wonder as I reread them. All of you at the network manage to channel that feeling into your podcasts. Thank you Rob and Shag for laying the foundation.
    For those interested, the Aquaman/Green Arrow adventure was reprinted in The Greatest Team-Up Stories ever told in the late 80s or very early 90s. That’s where I first read this charming tale.

  8. Great episode marking an incredible accomplishment. From the seed of an idea to talk about Firestorm and Aquaman to the mega-network of diverse shows, you guys should take a bow. It really is impressive.

    I consider myself lucky to be part of the community and definitely enjoy when i can interact here on the network or seeing you guys in real life.

    And yes Shag, blogging is still a thing! Yay Supergirl!

  9. Happy anniversary guys! Needless to say, your decision to collaborate on a little podcast changed my life in only positive ways.

    I first read that Aquaman/Firestorm story in The Greatest Team-Up Stories Ever Told. It’s a fun story, with beautiful art from Fradon and Elias, but yes, it’s somewhat frustrating that they don’t actually interact beyond that very last panel! It took DC over 10 years to finally put Superman and Batman in stories together after sharing covers for all of that time in World’s Finest. DC was the model of restraint.

    The Firestorm issue looks fun. Milgrom draws Superman with his semi-receeding hairline from the Silver Age. By this point, even Curt Swan had made him look a bit younger, with less forehead. But this works in the favor of the “fatherly” approach Superman takes with Firestorm.

    Very touching ending by the way guys. I’m not crying, you’re crying!!!


  10. Happy 10th anniversary! I checked online and the traditional anniversary gift would be tin or aluminum, while the modern anniversary gift would be diamond. I don’t have any diamonds lying around, but I could probably scrounge up a roll of aluminum foil for the two you. Seriously though, thank you both for 10 years of entertainment and community building.

    In regards to the Aquaman issue, I can picture Aquaman, clipboard in hand, loading his finny-friends into the truck, and thinking to himself, “If I leave the stingray behind, then I might be able to squeeze in one more swordfish.”

    In regards to the Firestorm issue, I missed out on the era of Superman’s super d*ckery. As a result, I always get a kick out of hearing about it in episodes like this. I also agree with Shag that seeing Firestorm with pupils felt weird.

    Thanks for an excellent old school episode of F&W.

  11. Congratulations on an amazing 10 years! I can’t thank you guys (and the network) enough for all the entertainment you’ve given everyone over the last decade. It really has been an amazing ride to see all that you have accomplished. Even though I haven’t been here for the entire 10 years (and lurking for most of the time I was here), it’s amazing to see the community that has sprung up from your efforts of wanting to talk about Aquaman and Firestorm.

    For myself, I was not reading any blogs at all (that was a thing?), but a coworker mentioned that there was two guys doing a Who’s Who podcast . I thought that was incredibly niche and incredibly awesome at the same time and have been on board ever since. You two (and later the network) helped me so much about coming out of my shell to talk about comics. During most of my life, one did not talk about comics. That was for babies. And so, even though comics were a huge joy for me, there was a shame and stigma about actually talking about them. Or reading them in public. Or just generally enjoying them! I still really don’t have a network of people to talk about comics locally, so these shows and, more importantly, these message boards are a godsend. It let’s us all talk about and interact with like-minded people who love to share their joy.

    As for these three stories, it was great to hear you talk about the Fish Fry (I agree, that’s a bad name). Oh man, that Lee Elias art is amazing. I agree that splash page of the whale for the Green Arrow story is so detailed. Here’s hoping with the Aquaman movie sequel that there will be more interest and get him over that 75 issue bump. Maybe DC should take a cue from you guys and make a team-up series with Aquaman and Firestorm! Two great tastes that taste great together!

    Once again, I can’t thank you two enough for this amazing thing that you started 10 years ago. Here’s hoping to 10 more! Keep up the great work!

  12. I came into this show very late, but of course, once I got hooked on the JLI Bwah-hah-hah podcast, I’ve been following tons of shows on the network. I didn’t know this community existed, or that it was something I was missing. You both have made me feel totally welcome, and this “found family” is extremely important to me. None of that would have happened without Fire and Water, so this podcast will remain the heart of my podcast lifeblood. (Wow, that started nice, and got icky at the end.)

    More specific to this show, it got me to binge read original run Firestorm and Fury of Firestorm on the DCU app, and it was fantastic!

    Funny thing. Recording recently, and when I normally plug the website, I instinctively said “fire and water podcast dot” and caught myself. YOU’RE IN MY HEAD!

    Thank you guys so much! Here’s to seeing you soon in the analog world. Fan the flame, and ride the wave.

  13. Impressive podcast most impressive. Using the Dragon type and talk software again this time. My keyboard is still on the fritz. So hopefully this makes sense. Part of me was to start sitting welcome back Carter. Since it has been a while since you two have teamed up. Still selecting are some cool issues that y’all read. Though I have enjoyed the other shows you both do. It is good to see you both returning to the show that started the network. I see I had always thought it was shag who had started this podcast. Due to his team ups with Michael Bailey. Interesting to hear that the original star of it was Rob. For whatever reason I always assumed it was a follow along that ended with shag. I.e. Michael Bailey started by guest hosting on the big honking Steve’s podcast and he started his own. Then due to that discussion Mike and Jack had a bout that Nightwing is actually the greatest martial artist as far as superheroes go. And that Batman was the world’s greatest detective. Then they had a few podcast together and I assumed shag manager Rob planning to start his own podcast and added Rob Kelly to it.

    I see I had a piece of the puzzle out of place. Still this kind of works well. The Aquaman shrine is a pretty cool place. That I still follow on twitter. I like Joe’s discussions on these comics. And cool to see that at all our good friends. Which we all kind of figured the way you bicker back and forth. Since most male friends do have that type of camaraderie where they goof on each other back and forth. Or that is my understanding. Though the work well off each other’s podcast. And they are thing here. And it should be fun to hear the next one. Hope you continue putting result when you feel the want to talk about fire storm and or Aquaman. Other the AutoCorrect wants to keep saying firestarter instead of firestorm. I’m slightly surprised someone on YouTube hasn’t made a parody song about firestorm with the firestarter song from prodigy. Any rate I hope to hear the next episode soon.

  14. Youse guys are adorable! Happy tenth anniversary to my favourite podcast network. You offer an embarrassment of geeky riches and you should be very proud of what you’ve achieved here. Shagg was among the very first podcasters I ever heard (ever!), via Views From the Longbox, and he must be doing something right that I’m not sick of him yet. The cheques he sends every month have nothing to do with it.

    Here’s to ten more years, and to the day when you clowns finally wise up and host my Razorback show, the Big Pigcast, an issue-by-issue deep dive into the history of Marvel’s tallest and most porcine trucker anti-hero, from his Golden Age heyday to his upcoming scene-stealing MCU debut. Give the people what they want.

  15. Thanks for fanning the flame allowing us to ride the wave! When I followed Secret Origins podcast to F & W, I thought I’d never listen to a podcast discussing Aquaman and Firestorm. Then I did. Then I listened to the next one. Then I was unable to escape the gravitational pull! As others have already written, this is a terrific community to be part of!

  16. Congratulations lads, ten years, blimey, that went quickly! Not that I was there at the start, but I couldn’t say when I first tuned in, I just can’t remember not having ‘you forgot Slipknot!’ and ‘Mr Mixyizpuzzle’ in my head. Anyway, thanks for all the great entertainment and for welcoming me into the community. And apologies for the late comment, I was away a couple of weeks back and am only now catching up on shows.

    I read the Firestorm story when it came out and, of course, loved it. Gerry Conway was at his peak… well, I don’t think he’s ever stopped being brilliant (I thoroughly recommend his excellent Last Days of Animal Man mini-series with Chris Batista!) while Al Milgrom’s layouts were unlike anything else at DC, and Bob McLeod’s inks are exemplary. There’s so much great art in this issue – just look at that unflashy sequence on page 7 with a sad Ronnie… just two panels but very affecting due to the composition, finish and judicious use of zip-a-tone. Brilliant.

    And I like that panel of Firestorm with eyeballs – it’s so cute!

    I also read that Aquaman and Green Arrow non-team-up in The Greatest Team-Up Stories Ever Told and loved it. Yes, it’s a shame they never properly teamed up then, but at least this laid the groundwork for the upcoming Aquaman/Green Arrow Deep Target mini-series. What could be more fun?

    And by the way, Shagg, that old bit about Green Arrow copying everything from Batman… actually, the Arrowcave debuted in the comics first, in 1941 – the Batcave followed in 1944.

  17. Total voice variation opportunity lost! What a shame.

    In the Firestorm recap “I’ll have to investigate … AS SUPERMAN”.

    This was a very enjoyable episode and congratulations on 10 Years of quality entertainment!

  18. Great episode – and congratulations on the 10th anniversary! You both should really be proud on what you have accomplished with this “family”. You guys know how to bring the joy – thanks for all that you have brought into our lives.

  19. Congrats on years, Shag & Rob!

    I’ve only recently started listening to your podcasts. I definitely am finding my fun with them.

    I’ve been playing catch-up on a number of the podcasts – I am up through #79 of this one. I am definitely looking forward to listening to episode #100 about my favorite single comic book ever – JLA #200.

    Many thanks for introducing me to this wonderful community!

    Aloha for now,


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