Fire & Water Co-Founder Rob Kelly joins Chris and Cindy once more to cover the epic 3-part season one finale of Justice League, “The Savage Time”! The Leaguers finds themselves in a timeline altered by Vandal Savage, one where he has ruled the world since the end of World War II! The heroes must travel to the past to set history right, but they’ll need the help of the Blackhawks, Steve Trevor, and Sgt. Rock & Easy Company to do it!
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Clips from Justice League, “The Savage Time”, music by Lolita Ritmanis, Kristopher Carter, and Michael McCuistion
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30 responses to “JLUCast 12: “The Savage Time””
Thanks for having me on C&C!
I realized I may have misspoke during my Watchtower Files segment, the characters were continually published since their debut in 1941, not 1944. What I meant to highlight was that in 1944, they took over Military Comics and the title of the book was changed to Blackhawk, and that self-titled series ran uninterrupted until 1968.
Thanks for the clarification Rob. I understood what you meant, though. Thanks for dropping the Blackhawk knowledge, and enduring my amped up geekiness!
Oh I know you knew it Chris, I’m just trying to head off a snarky “YOU GOT IT WRONG” comment from Gutierrez.
I also know it’s coming anyway.
DAG snark is as inevitable as Thanos.
TIme travel is used in four plots that I can think of during Justice League/Justice League Unlimited, through at least three different methods. Vandal’s method is the only one that explicitly has the “You can’t travel to a time where you already exist” constraint, and one of the others definitely does not work that way.
WIth regards to the Colonel Klink reference. Hmm. I generally got the feeling that Justice League was airing late enough that it probably could catch people who’d get the reference. If I recall correctly, the first-run airings were Saturdays at 9pm Eastern.
One thing John possibly could have done is called for assistance from whoever was the 2814 Green Lantern before his ring ran out, Definitely not the first time the Corps has had to deal with time travel. Perhaps there’s just too much paperwork involved?
And we learn John Stewart HATES time travel, and I can kinda understand why! Not sure the “you can’t travel to a time you already exist” rule was really in place here, but it may very well have been. It was one of the time travel rules Pre-Crisis DC USUALLY adhered to…unless they just didn’t want to for story purposes.
Oh yeah, all of us older fans watching JL in real time got the Klink reference. I grew up on that show, thanks to my Dad. The kids buying the toys to actually PLAY with…maybe not. But CN was always getting on Timm and co. for skewing too old, anyway.
I like your thought about John calling in another GL! Would that have been Abin Sur? I think we see in the Starman/Power of Shazam crossover that Sur was the GL of Earth during WWII, at least on Post-Crisis DC Earth.
Pre-Crisis, Abin Sur was shown to be the Green Lantern of Sector 2814 when he visited Earth in the 1920s (GL v2 issue 55) and the 1870s (GL v2 issue 149), so also being so in the 1940s is definitely plausible…
Contacting Abin Sur during World War II might have disrupted an even more important mission and wrecked history worse than Vandal Savage had. Even borrowing Sur’s Power Battery might have been catastrophic.
Great to hear you lads and lass covering an excellent bit of DC goodness on an otherwise drab Monday. I can always count on your fun podcast … except I don’t really remember all of these events happening in Superman II. Which 5 minutes are we on? I’ve lost track.
(At 1:04:06 — The Franklins’ caucasian guest has been replaced with a cocky Asian. Let’s see if they notice!)
Seriously, your show is getting better and better. Well done timing this one to be out in time for Independence Day, by the way! Since the season closes out with time travel, I’m reminded that I read at some point (or maybe heard on DVD commentaries, it’s too vague a recollection) that the show had a one-time-travel and one-parallel-universe self-imposed limit per season. But when searching online, I can’t find anything to back that up. They kept to that limitation in Season 2 of course, and past that we’ll see. Certainly writers in the superhero genre love to go to those wells, so it was wise for Timm and co to make their choices count by placing time and universe journeys in the show in top-drawer episodes like this one.
Hawk-oooo! (I might need some practice doing that right.)
I think we’re in the minutes where Sgt. Rock and Sheriff J. W. Pepper face off against Non and his pet police siren.
I see what you did there with the Cocky Asian bit. Ha!!!
I remember that sound bite from time about the time trave/dimension hopping rule as well. I think maybe it was from the Season 2 DVD set, maybe in the commentary for “A Better World”? Not sure off the top of my head, but you’re not dreaming. Unless we both are…which would be weird!
FYI: Under “Comic Connections”, there was a Pre-Crisis story in which Vandal Savage (from Earth 2) altered a number of past historical events to make him the ruler of Earth 1. One of these events was actually the battle of Normandy on D-Day. This had taken place in Action Comics v1 issues 515 and 516.
And Vandal Savage *was* able to time travel in this story, since he did not previously exist in the Earth One timeline…
Thanks for the heads up, Xum! I don’t have those particular issues of Action, probably due to shoddy newsstand distribution. I did recall Marv Wolfman used Vandal as his replacement for Luthor when Julius Schwartz rejected his idea of making Lex an untouchable businessman, but I didn’t know about the time travel angle, and especially the very close connections to this story! I’ll definitely bring this up in the feedback on the next episode.
The “untouchable businessman” storyline with Vandal Savage happened in his next DC Comics appearance, starting in Action Comics v1 issues 542 and 543, continuing in issues 552 and 553, and concluding in issue 556.
Impressive pod cast most impressive. This was a fun show and was cool to see all these heroes in WW2. And seeing Easy Co in it was cool. Happy 4th. And seeing the Comish from Monk as Bull dosser. Ah look Biden and Antifa …oh wait that’s Vandal Savage and his Nazis….about the same my bad. The Black Hawks look cool in this. Hee Heee Fury was in this cool. And he didn’t loss his eye to a cat, but in a battle. I may die of shock. The Unknown Solder cameo was cool. And Yeah Steve Trevor was great. With Patrick Duffy as the character.
Oh did I mention I have a U tube Chanel? Liz Anne Oswalt. Back on topic was cool to see John Stewart. And him as a solder. Even with out the ring he was pretty cool. Though sad he lost his edge a bit. But, it makes since. And the War Wheels were cool. As was Savage in this. Though like how a lab top having power in the past is huh. Maybe he sent himself a power cord. Maybe he couldn’t close the rift and it would open every do few centuries. It might happen. Sadly Tom Baker didn’t voice any characters in this. Yeah Supes and Bats are best buds here. Kind of like when Jim and Spock hug every once in a while.
Yeah guys ya’ll forgot this is Bryne well Ordway’s Super Man. So yeah he would ride in the jet. He was tired of holding his breath. Since he had to do that during the time when he made himself an Outcast. Though it’s not 70s Super Man. Yeah the fact that he gets taken down by guns makes no since. But, it’s what it is. Hopfuly he gets to be powerful as he should be again.
There was a bit of that awkward “Amok Time” hug between Kirk and Spock here! Good call. Also, nice thought on the power cord. Did it have a European adapter?
Preach on Brother Chris! No Re-Breathers! No Nerfing Superman! (Ironically, the new episodes of Young Justice also feature a space-fairing Superman, (slight spoiler) and he, Wonder Woman AND Hawkgirl nearly suffocate to death if not for Guy Gardner.
I get it’s an accurate representation of the post-crisis Superman, but like yourself, I’ve never liked that ‘thinking too hard’ addition to the lore. It also doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy Exile or the Young Justice tv series. Though I was frequently teased about Clark Kent’s ultimate fate in Planetary/JLA….which remains a sore spot….
Yeah, I know it’s accurate to Post-Crisis Supes, but I flat never liked it. I got over it, but short of the occasional Supermobile appearance, I want Superman flying through the vacuum of space unhindered!
Also, here’s the footage of the Captain America cartoon that never was.
Tbh, I think the reason it never moved forward was more due to Marvel going bankrupt at the time and there never was going to be any Nazi Iconography in the show anyway.
Thank you! I knew I had seen that somewhere before. I always thought the Cap design had a slight Mike Wieringo vibe to them, although I don’t recall him ever drawing Cap. Looked a bit like his Flash.
You may be right about the bankruptcy part.
Fun show as always, Chris and Cindy. Much more enjoyable this time around than last because you had a better episode to cover.
If I have to chastise Rob and Chris for one thing….don’t apologize for some of the nerdgasms when you get excited about something you see in an episode or comic. I’ve always felt sort of isolated in my comics fandoms, so I like listening to your shows and seeing other people are just as big a nerd as I am and enjoy this stuff as much as I do. Honestly, sometimes I feel like I shouldn’t comment because I’m not a podcaster, so at least you guys have other fans to talk to.
My main complaint about this episode and the first season is, as you guys state, the not-so-super Superman. Bruce Timm was more of a Batman guy (I am too), and I wonder if he wanted to down play Superman. I always took this Dwanye McDuffie interview to mean he didn’t like Superman at all, and since he was one of the main writers on the show (and a script editor? I can’t remember) he may have just wanted to get Superman out of the way.
Sorry for the Marvel watermark, but I pulled this from my Spider-Man DVD. I wasn’t going to go back through my long boxes to find it and I didn’t remember exactly what month it appeared. I don’t expect everyone to love Superman just because I do, but no matter who your favorite Super Hero is, he or she wouldn’t exist without Superman’s popularity spawning imitators. Superman deserves respect.
Timm and company have stated they weren’t initially keen on doing a Superman animated series, because Timm did feel Superman was a bit dull compared to Batman (someone hold back Michael Bailey!). Its why they initially pitched the Superman Team-Up type show that Jennette Kahn squashed. She felt Supes deserved his OWN solo show, and she was right. The concept did come up occasionally, of course.
Superman does indeed deserve the utmost respect. I’m not at all happy with current DC, but the recent issue of Doomsday Clock putting Superman at the center of EVERYTHING is as it should be. I just hope they don’t do something horrible to him!
Great episode, gang! This three-parter was a highlight of the first season for me, so I’m glad you all like it too.
I view Superman in the spacecraft very differently. It’s like why do I ride in a car when I can run? Because it’s faster in the car. But for Supes, it’s more about his personality. Flash runs everywhere because he’s impatient. Supes is fine with slowing down and being sociable with the team.
I’m still waiting for a Captain America/Wonder Woman team-up, where Steve Rogers (not Trevor) crash lands on Paradise Island, and the magic follows. *sigh*
The Blackhawks are a group I haven’t read much of, but LOVE their look. The uniforms! The emblem! The planes!
For the time portal sequence, I always got a 2001: A Space Odyssey vibe from it.
Um, how did John’s ring get charged up when he jumped out of the portal into the present? Green eyes, in costume, flying. Hmmm.
Great to hear the 3 Musketeers again! Till next time!
Wow Tim, I noticed GL jumping through the portal, but not the glowing eyes thing. That is a HUGE plot hole, since so much of the episode depends on him having no access to his battery! Great catch!
As for Superman in the Javelin, I will let that go. But little Chris Franklin still doesn’t like it!
There, there, little Chris. I also figure even Superman wants to fly the Javelin sometimes because it’s COOL!
What is Chris on and can I have some for work?
You’ll need it to get through Amazons Attack!
I enjoyed your lively discussion of The Savage Time. Compliments to Chris for his eagle eyes in spotting all of the DC soldier cameos in these episodes. I can confirm that these were intentional. Our philosophy was why put in generic soldiers when we could use known DC characters. So, Chris, despite the merciless ribbing you got from Cindy, you were absolutely right!
One minor quibble from this and the previous episode… The correct pronunciation of director Dan Riba’s last name is “Ree-bah.” And writer Len Uhley’s last name is pronounced “You-lee.” Other than that, great job!
Thanks Rich! I feel validated. Take that Cindy and Rob! An actual Justice League creator says I was right!
On the other hand, I apologize for butchering the names of your fellow creators on the series. You think I would know how to pronounce Dan Riba’s name after all of these years. Sometimes my mouth gets a head of my brain. Duly noted!
Thanks so much for listening!!!