SHAZAM! Plaid Stallions guru Brian Heiler stops by to chat with Chris and Cindy about Justice League Unlimited Season 2, Episode 7 “Clash”. This episode features the one and only appearance of the original Captain Marvel! When the Big Red Cheese inadvertently becomes Lex Luthor’s biggest super-supporter, a certain Man of Steel is none too happy! The battle of comics’ most powerful heroes begins!
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Clip credits:
Clips from Justice League Unlimited “Clash”, music by Kristopher Carter, theme by Michael McCuistion. Opening theme from Shazam!, and closing theme from Kids Super Power Hour with Shazam! by Ray Ellis and Norm Prescott.
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AS my father always said “God damn it Shazam was the wizard! and it’s NEVER Batman and superman It’s SUPERMAN AND BATMAN
Your father had the Wisdom of Solomon!
The Split Captain Marvel was WrITTEN by Carl Burgoss (the human Torch guy)
Ah, that’s it. Thanks for the clarification!
Four of the best words you can hear in a podcast: “Guest Starring Brian Heiler.”
Agreed! He’s a sure thing!
The flowers on Captain Marvel’s cape are meant to represent Moly a sacred herb that Hermes gave to Odysseus to protect him from the spells of Circe.
In World’s Finest 254, Captain Marvel uses it in a confrontation with Satan to save the soul of Billy Bat son’s Evil Uncle Ebenezer.
Ebenezer mentions an herb called Moly (of theGarlic family that’s cultivated for it’s yellow flowers (like the one’s on the Marvel Family’s capes
Only ENB could come up with an explanation that actually adds to the mythology like that. I guess Brian and I were right. They WERE flowers! Or ENB thought so, anyway.
WF#254, the first comic I ever read all by myself. (Insert heart emoji here)
all right who thinks superman was being mind controled by Sivana?
Have you watched ahead? There is some…influencing going on, but not with those characters.
nope IN fact I dont remember the task force x one at all!
Reasons Superman is mind-control
1 i reallly dont like superman fighting CM just cuz that all they ever do
2 The lighting cant hurt superman when he’s not mind controled Superman is a GOOD GUY! (IT’S A rule I MADE UP)
3. WHY was superman not surpised about billy Cuz sivania KNOWS
I loved this episode of JLUCast, but hate this episode of JLU — not because it was bad, but because it was superb. It did a perfect job of showing the founding Leaguers at their worst — especially Superman, but they all got suckered. And it was still entirely plausible. I thank God that real villains, with very few exceptions, aren’t as smart as Lex — even ones that run for the Presidency. As I write this, some interesting things are going on a few hours south of me that demonstrate that.
The whole episode reminds me that the fact that our adversaries are wrong about something or about many things doesn’t give us permission to throw away every rule we’ve ever lived by. I wish we could all understand that and remember it.
As Brian and other guests have pointed out, this series seems more relevant today than it did 20 years ago.
As for “hating” it, I get it. The League is dragged through the mud this season, and a lot of it is based on others manipulating their hubris. But things will turn around… we promise! I’m not a huge fan of deconstruction for deconstruction’s sake. I feel it’s been done to death, and the novelty of doing this to super hero stories was over by the early 90s at the latest. But when it’s done this well, it’s one heck of a ride worth taking!
Concur 100%
My initial reaction to the episode was similar to that of many fans of this show; It was painful and torturous for me to see my hero Superman in this light. Upon repeated viewings I’ve applied a different perspective to everything going on. Many detractors of Superman criticize the character for being too invulnerable, but episodes like this present the perfect counter argument to that. His heart and his humanity can be exploited. Luthor can create whatever battle suit, imperfect clone or super-weapon he desires, but when he goes for his The Man of Steel’s heart THAT’S when he really tears down our hero. If you’ll indulge me for a bit, I’ve always been a fan of the dichotomy between the two foes; Lex Luthor the Earth born mortal is all too capable of becoming emotionally detached from the concerns of the common man in his quest for power and domination. Yet Kal-El, a foreigner from space who’s powers and physiology give him an excuse to renounce the terrans around him, instead embraces the humanity around him and within himself. When conflict ensues and inevitably escalates between the two, Luthor ironically becomes the less human of the two. I could never articulate this when I was young, but my exposure to reprints of old Silver Age Superman stories always made the point clear. I’m so glad Dwayne McDuffie was added to the creative team. His understanding of the character of Superman enhanced my enjoyment of this show.
I love this animated series and the passion you, Cindy and your guests have in discussing it. Thank You all so much.
Wow, Pedro, very well said! I think you articulated that dichotemy between Superman and Luthor better than just about anyone I’ve ever seen discuss it.
As a Superman fan, it IS hard to see him be so wrong, but in the end, as I mentioned, he is proven right, even if the way he handled different situations could have been done better. The Superman of the DCAU is definitely very much human, and therefore not perfect, despite his alien origins, and godlike powers.
Wow, Pedro! I agree with Chris. What an outstanding analysis!
You know, Chris (or Cindy or Brian) mentioned the Jeph Loeb Batman/Superman series where they fought President Luther. If I remember correctly, Batman made the point that what he hated most about Luther was his effect on Superman. To me, that is the rhetorical nail in the coffin of any argument saying that Superman wouldn’t or couldn’t be this wrong. And as you point out, he can only be this wrong, because Kryptonian or not, he is this human. Again, well said!
Luther is autocorrect for Luthor, as correctly pronounced only by the often imitated but never equaled Ned Beatty.
Or is that “Loo-Tor”?
I WAS gonna say “I’d like better if Superman fought captain comet. WAIT where IS captain comet
Space.
DC IS wasting so much not using CC more!
I have to say, the most shocking thing I heard on this episode was that Cindy hadn’t done her homework on it! Cindy, I hope none of your students heard that comment! But considering all the past episodes she’s done with perfection I can give her a pass on this one. After all, she’s human, much like Superman seems to be in this episode of JLU. To say he was in a mood was a perfect classification. My first exposure to Superman was Christopher Reeve’s portrayal and so that will always be canon for me. But I enjoy the way he is written and portrayed in this series as more human, not only making mistakes but having ranging emotions that can be manipulated and twisted. It makes the character more relatable and sympathetic than the high moral standard that is associated with the classic Superman. I think Pedro’s earlier comment summed up this same thought very well, so I won’t espouse upon it any more.
One thing I will point out about the episode is that I do think Superman does seem initially surprised at Billy’s age when he changes. The first frame or two appears to make Superman look a bit surprised (to me) but then I think he just shrugged it off as “Eh, after everything else I’ve seen over my life, nothing really suprised me anymore.” It would have been nice to see Superman or any of the League members address the situation, especially after being taken to task by a teenager.
Chris, thanks for the info on the Captain Marvel TV shows. My memory isn’t what it used to be so I can’t recall if I wanted them when they originally aired. Any idea on where or if they are available on any of the streaming services? I’d love to check them out.
To be fair, did CHRIS do any research? I feel like he just had his head crammed full of this stuff in childhood and is just coasting on the exams.
If that is true then I am extremely impressed! If he truly is such a comics savant the Fire and Water podcast network is lucky to have him. I am always impressed with his wealth of knowledge on so many subjects – it’s one of the reasons I keep tuning in.
John C McGinley voices the Fox News style host (then intended as a Bill O’Reilly riff) who interviews Lex so that justifies his only providing the single line for the Atom. I thought that was clever.