The epic conclusion to the Cadmus Arc! Special guest Steve Givens joins Chris and Cindy to discuss “Divided We Fall”! The combined powers of Luthor and Brainiac have seemingly defeated the Justice League, and doomed the entire planet. But a hero will rise, and go where they’ve never gone before to defeat them!
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Clip credits:
Clips from Justice League Unlimited “Divided We Fall”, music by Michael McCuistion, theme by Kristopher Carter. Theme from The Flash (1990) by Danny Elfman.
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Hey guys! Great episode as always! As a very vocal fan of the Wally West Flash, this is always one of my very favorite episodes of JLU!
However I do have to point something out.
Like Steve, I noticed on the Justice Lord Flash that his lightning emblem went in the same direction Wally’s However this is also true of the original Reverse Flash as well! As with his animated counterpart, Thawne’s lightning also pointed in the same direction as Barry’s (I had always assumed that it would actually point in the opposite direction (As it often does today.) But That particular detail wouldn’t become a standard feature on Reverse Flash’s Uniform until Geoff Johns created the Second Generation Reverse Flash ZOOM II (Hunter Zolomon) Eobard Thawne wouldn’t adopt the detail until after he was resurrected in Blackest Night.
The reason in the comics that the emblems point in the same direction is that the suit Thawne wore from the silver age all the way through to his last pre-Blackest Night appearances in Wally’s run (Flash 224-225) is that Thawne’s original suit was one of Barry’s old suits. Thawne had stolen the costume in his time from a recently opened time capsule and returned to his lab with it. There, he devised a way to draw out the latent speed energies from it so that it would give him Flash’s speed whenever he wore it. (Without it he moved at the same speed as anyone else! At least initially) The process altered the suit’s colors so that it was yellow with red lightning but it did not alter the emblem’s directional configuration.
Hey, you’re right! I should have remembered that, having been there when Barry killed Thawne to keep him from murdering Fiona, like Iris before her. Okay, I wasn’t THERE, but I was reading the Flash regularly. Of course, then the trial dragged out FOR EVER, and I eventually stopped by The Flash. Just too dang depressing!!!
But back to Thawne/Reverse-Flash/Professor Zoom…thanks for the info!
Ditto to that first paragraph
Superman was never gonna kill Luthor
1 killiing is wrong
2 Superman killing Luthor would be a mistake superman is’nt dumb enough to make Luthor is not joker he’s too cyncal to think Superman wont rip his head off so hes got backup plans
Well, yeah, Superman SHOULDN’T kill Luthor, but the story showed us a Superman who did, so it was fasicnating to watch “our” Superman grapple with this.
But I really am over “evil” Superman in every other iteration at this point. It’s just overdone now.
No Flash Facts to add, but thanks for great discussion of happy memories as always, Franklins + Steve.
And as always, thanks for listening Captain!
Love this episode and JLU, and I loved you coverage of it.
I’m glad you highlighted the Flash’s heroism as the centerpiece of the episode. The JLU version of the Flash might be my favorite interpretation of the character ever: I love the idea of the not-too-smart, boorish clown who is nonetheless brave and knows right from wrong. In the real world, heroes aren’t always level-headed paragons of intelligence and strength; often, they’re just well-meaning jerkoffs. It’s very inspiring to know someone can save the day even if they’re far from perfect.
This is something I absolutely love about JL/JLU, and all great Justice League stories: The richness of characterization, the complexity of motivations. And this episode absolutely nails it.
Wally is definitely the “everyman” of the team, and we’ll get even more of that next season, in one of may favorite episodes! And some guy name Givens might chime in on that one too!
Great coverage of the episode, and always a treat to have Steve on the show. I have my one odd thought, and I’d like to hear everyone’s thoughts. Would Superman have acted the same if the Justice Lords had *not* come to their Earth? Lord Superman made his decision without encountering another version of himself first, but JLU Supes has the “benefit” of seeing the results of such an action. So what do you think?
Yes, I have my own answer, but I’d rather not color any responses either way. (and I’m a stinker)
Thank you, Frank-Give-lins!
Ooh, that is a good thought. Personally, I think “our” Superman said it best: He’s NOT the man who killed President Luthor. And he wouldn’t be, even if he never knew of the man who did. The Lords were VERY similar to their counterparts (esp. Batman) but none of the Leaguers would have went facist like they did…despite what George Lopez might lead you to believe!
Great episode of the podcast covering a great episode of the show.
For me, the standout moment is Batman holding Wonder Woman from stopping Superman. This is Superman’s decision to make. And I am sure Batman knows his friend won’t kill … but nothing is zero percent. He could have.
The thing is, this whole season has been Superman wrestling with his role. Trashing Capt. Marvel, hating Luthor, breaking into Cadmus … he has walked a fine line. And he has had his doubts on what he would do. As the Question says – what would Superman do if the government WAS Luthor?
If Diana stops him, he won’t know what he would do and those doubts would linger. And that could be just as devastating. I have always thought that if she stops him, he still wonders. And my guess is if that doubt is still out there he keeps the JLA disbanded, worried about the army.
Great discussion. Loved the Speed Force addition. Always good to hear Steve talk about the Flash.
I think you hit the nail on the head Anj. If Wonder Woman had intervened, those lingering doubts in Superman’s mind might have proven catastrophic. The League probably would have actually disbanded. Maybe Green Arrow would start his own League, or (Siskoid just fainted) the Outsiders or something like that, but it wouldn’t have been the same. When the Series Finale happened, would the heroes have been ready for the big threat if they weren’t organized as the League? For want of Diana butting in…the kingdom may have been lost.
And crazy risky …
Because if he does vaporize Luthor then we definitely get armageddon.
Gutsy call by Bats. Thankfully the right one.
I don’t know. I think at this point, Waller would have covered for him, after being duped by Lex herself. She certainly would have ended him if she had the chance. She shot BrainiLex without considering if it’d kill Lex or not, and was kind of casual about “pulling him out” of Brainiac’s mass of flesh and metal. We’ll see next episode that Waller has really changed her opinion on the League, but isn’t even above murdering innocent people (and Lex certainly isn’t that) for “the greater good”. She probably feels differently about Superman now, and would justify his actions, and smooth them over with whoever may question them.
But right or wrong, that’s not what Superman would do, and so he didn’t do it.
Great episode, Cindy, Chris, and Steve. I’ve been watching the show as your podcast goes along, so a lot of this is new to me. “Divided We Fall” is definitely my favorite to date. Couple thoughts:
I thought the best name for the Brainiac/Lex combo would be BREX. It’s short, to the point, and makes him sound like the preppy bully in an 80’s comedy. “Oh no. Brex gave Flash a wedgie at the prom in front of everyone AND made him vibrate out of existence!”
I loved Batman holding back the team from interfering with Superman’s decision on whether to kill naked Lex. But, Supes, maybe lower your arch-enemy a bit so you’re not face-to-face with Luthor’s favorite test tube.
I can’t help but laugh at the reactions to Superman saying they’re decommissioning the Watchtower. You can see some of the Watchtower staff looking at him like, “What the hell, man? I’ve got rent to pay! Do we get a letter of recommendation? Are super heroes on LInkedIn?”
Green Arrow has a great moment telling truth to power. My favorite DC character.
Finally, “I’ll be dipped” is short for “I’ll be dipped in sh%t.”
Keep up the great work, and any chance you’ll pick up the old Brave and Bold animated series after JLU is done?
BREX also sounds like a detergent name! “BREX removes stains…and everything else!”
Luthor’s favorite test tube, HA!!! Which we have decided is a small test tube…
I imagine the Watchtower staff was sweating for a minute there. Bad enough they have to have a family member drop them off in a cornfield to beam into outer space, now this!
I can’t really say for certain what we’ll do after JLU, but…I’ll just say that thought has crossed our minds!
Chris, Cindy and Steve – thanks for such awesome discussion and coverage of this episode – truly one of my favorites. Merging two of Superman’s most dangerous foes into one is pure genius. I recall in the ’90s comics Luthor used Brainiac as a weapon against Superman, so I wonder if that was a small callback. Either way, it was fun to see a threat as cold as Brainiac imbue some cocky smarminess from Lex. I love that it came down to The Flash to take down BrainiLex – I was worried that it would come down to an epic battle between them and Superman. Although he’s my favorite, he had his own show for three seasons to face off against both. Giving the victory to Flash shows the true power of the League – that any one member is up to virtually every challenge. It also helps show Wally’s maturity a bit, which I felt was needed.
Waller seems awfully over confident about declaring the threat “neutralized”. Didn’t they just learn earlier in the episode that Brianiac tends to leave copies of his programming lying around everywhere? I mean he remained dormant in Luthor for how many years? Good grief where will he turn up next!?