FW All-Star Siskoid joins Chris and Cindy to discuss one of the series' fan-favorite episodes, “Double Date”, written by comics superstar Gail Simone! Green Arrow and Black Canary must stop the Huntress on her quest for revenge. But why is the Question so eager to help her?
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Clip credits:
Clips from Justice League Unlimited “Double Date”, music and theme by Michael McCuistion.
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IN HIS first story THE Kingpin had superpowers. He grabbed Spider-man outta the air by his foot.
Yeah, that’s why I never bought the “official” call that he had no super powers. Pick a lane, Marvel!
I can *almost* believe that Helena’s parents faced Mandragora together because they knew if he only found the father, they’d immediately hunt down the mother too. It *almost* works, as long as I accept that there’s left out scenes of the killers being inept and dismiss looking for Helena as a possible witness. But since there’s no such scene, it’s a problem with the story.
However, it’s the only problem I have with this story, because like you all said, Gail Simone delivers an excellent episode! “Train.” “I see it.” “Train!” “I SEE IT!” If I had a nickel every time my wife and I said this, I’d … have zero nickels but you know, a little driving disagreement happens with all couples.
I totally understand Siskoid not wanting to read Birds of Prey vol 2 with Benes artwork. It was covered by AJ, Laurel and Mark on Feathers and Foes last year, and I read along myself. The art’s about as cheesecakey as you think, but at least it’s also beefcakey in depicting Hawk. I will say, there’s an interaction in the first issue which defines the relationship between Canary, Oracle, and Huntress that almost makes me cry. So maybe, just read the first issue.
Thanks for a great discussion, Frankloids! (Ok, I just read that, and to quote Canary, “ew.”)
Yeah, I think the door was even ajar in the scene. You think they’d case the house and make sure there were no witnesses, surveilance devices, etc.
Cindy and I have had many similar vehicular exchanges as well!
I totally think the Simone BOP era is worth it, despite the art. It is very excessive, though. Not sure why someone didn’t tell him to tone down the posing, if nothing else.
Frankloid…right. (Say it out loud!).
I always thought that the Watchtower employee’s uniforms were a shout out to the Challengers of the Unknown’s original uniforms. However, it does make sense as a subtle reference to the Wondertwins. Here’s a vitally important question to ask when you have Bruce Timm on the show 🙂
Given Timm’s love for all things Kirby, that’s a definite probability as well. I’ll write that down for our Timm “Bucket List of Questions”.
Great episode. Though I’m heartbroken to learn that, apparently, neither of the Franklins nor Siskoid is a fan of “The Sopranos”: None of you called out that one of Mandragora’s goons was played by Steven Schirripa, clearly referencing his best-known role, as mafia flunky Bobby “Bacala” Baccalieri on “The Sopranos.” I found his voice distractingly recognizable gere (though maybe it’s because I listened to hours of his own podcast, “Talking Sopranos”). It also seemed odd to me that they didn’t get another “Sopranos” cast member to play the other mob goon he was paired with; maybe they had and he backed out last-minute.
I’ve only seen the first season, all in one go, Christmas 2002, while eating beef jerky and, in between, prank calling radio Santas, with a person who eventually became New Brunswick’s vice-prime minister.
True story.
Now I wish I had mentioned The Sopranos, so we could have gotten that story!
Yeah, sorry, I’m one of the few humans (Cindy being another one) who has never watched The Sopranos. When The Sopranos first aired, our kids were little, and we watched a metric ton of Disney Channel and Nickleodeon. So if one of the goons had been on Good Luck, Charlie, I would have picked up on it immediately.
Great show — both your coverage and the episode of JLU itself. A high point.
To me, the DCAU is pretty much what satellite era Ollie was adapted to modern sensibilities. I think when people look at Superman or Batman’s less than admirable attitudes from comics from the 1940s – 1980s, the blame falls squarely on “the times”. But Green Arrow is deliberately meant to be a jerk, in a time when even the normal views of the day (rightly) seems horrible to us. So, more blame falls on the character of Ollie. (And Denny O’Neil has admitted that back in the day, women’s rights were just something he didn’t get.) I think JLU gets the balance absolutely right with him. He;s a jerk at times — but not a monster.
Ollie is definitely a bit sanitized, but still “Ollie”. I think he’s GA’s “best self”.
Impressive podcast most impressive. Ah the one with the awesome ness of the Huntress and her boy toy the Question. And the less important couple of Green Arrow and Black Canary. I always liked this episode. The villain was new. Since in the comics. H.B. Lost her parents to a different mob boss. That killed her mob boss dad. Still he was kind of dead so I guess we needed a new one.
The twist at the end that the bad guy is saving his son was cool. And the Huntress getting more screen time after this was cool. Weird after she’s off the team she works with them a lot more. HR? For a super hero team? They didn’t even know Captain Marvel was a kid. Or what the Question looks like with out the mask.
Yeah no HR here. Not a company. They’re a team of so gooders. Do they get a check? Doubt it. Huntress leaving the please with out an HR rep is the lest questionable thing here. Like would Bawana beasts costume pass any dress code? Not that I’m complaining just saying.
As for Huntress costume? Hold up. We literally have the other person in heels. 3 inch heels and fish nets . With a leather jacket. And we’re talking about Huntress costume? In fact stupid hat of Olies isn’t helpful. In fact Bats wares a long cape with a cowl. That has bat ears on it. He’s 6’2 or 6’4 add those and he’s lucky he fits in doors. And the weighted cape with points at the end not helping.
◦ And not giving him much vision to the sides. I could go on. Very few people on this team have practical uniforms. Ever tried fighting in head to toe Kevlar? Or just running in it. Yeah “practical “ is not the word. Note when they don’t need it . A solder will ware webbing instead of his vest.
Or so I hear. So yeah her costume works. It gets hot in New York sometimes. Her ,WW and J’ohn are the ones dressed for the weather. When it’s hot all black outfit like bats won’t be fun. Are great for sneaking around. Moving on. Roll models? People let their kids read Harry Potter. If I ever adopt kids I’d rather them look up to Granny Goodness than JK Rollins. Or whatever her name is. Her being prof Hittler had descendants is about what she does.
Well and make rip off books of Books of Magic that make money. Called Harry Potter. Or Dr. who rip off books that didn’t. Newt. What’s his face. Waiting for her to make a rip off of Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy. Though that’s not what annoys me about her. Any way. Yep her and Josh aren’t great people, but for different reasons.
So yeah in comparison as a character, Huntress is a way better role model. Worst part? She’s made up and they’re real people. But, at one time folks like Josh. And they still like JK…. Oy. Not shaming anyone for liking her work. I just wouldn’t call here a role model. The cartoon is great. And I like ware it builds to. Anyway can’t wait to hear the next podcast.
Stefan Mandragora was the man who ordered the hit on the Bertenelli’s in the comics as well. He wasn’t albino or super-powered, but the name is essentially the same.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Stefano_Mandragora_(New_Earth)
Justice League HR is indeed highly quesitonable. Not much screening going on, apparently.
This Huntress outift is a bit less practical than the previous outfit she was wearing, pre-Hush, but historically, it’s no more skimpy than Helena Wayne’s classic getup.
Hey, I’m a straight man, so I can’t say I don’t like this Huntress outfit. But the empty rectangle around her belly button strikes me as completely unpractical, even more than the original Helena Wayne uniform. I really feel like a no-nonsense vigilante like this would wear something that had zero gratuitous sex appeal.
BTW, just noticed something interesting: The Netflix plot summary for this episode reads, “Green Arrow and Black Canary race to stop the Question and Huntress from killing organized crime lord Tobias Whale.” Do you think Mandragora was supposed to be TW and Tony Isabella put his foot down late in production? Or is it just a confused comic geek writing the Netflix summaries?
I had that in my notes and failed to make it come out of my mouth in conversation. We need a DCAU tell-all book!
I forgot to bring up the Tobias Whale mention as well. The same description is used on MAX. I’m guessing either the name WAS Tobias Whale in the episode at one point, or at least somehow some internal notes got incorrectly used in the synposis sent out to the press. We’ll get to an episode in a few weeks that has two story titles, so there were some shenanigans going on at WB Animation back in the day!
I know Twitter is a blasted hellscape most of the time, but Gail is a treasure on there, and just before this dropped she talked about writing this episode
https://twitter.com/GailSimone/status/1661396565800685573
Oh, that’s wonderful! Thanks SP! Yeah, I really need to wade back into Twitter, and just avoid the nuts and drama. There are a lot of good conversations happening out there, despite all the dreadful noise otherwise.
Sorry this comment is soooo late. Great discussion as always, but with three Network All-Stars, what do we expect?
This episode had parallels with Grant Morrison’s JLA. In that series, Batman deliberately brought in Huntress so the JLA could be a positive influence on her. Then, he fired her when he saw that she was about to kill Prometheus.
Helena Bertinelli is both a child of (Mafia) privilege and a schoolteacher. She acts more like the former than the latter in this episode, pretending she’s never heard of a morality clause. I appreciate y’all holding her accountable. I really like her face turn at the end and Rorsh–The Question’s intentional role in it.