M*A*S*HCast #127 – In Love and War

Season 6, Episode 7: In Love and War

Special Guest Stars: Gloria and Teri Allen

Air Date: November 1, 1977

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22 responses to “M*A*S*HCast #127 – In Love and War

  1. This is one of those episodes that I respect more than I like it. I think it gets too depressing for my liking. I also think this marks a change in a lot of the episodes getting a not so happy ending, later on Preventative Medicine for example.

  2. What a great mother-daughter duo, I really enjoyed listening to this!
    I am not a big fan of “In Love and War”, though…
    The episode really suffers from it’s short runtime, they are cramming a lot of stuff into these measly minutes. The love story doesn’t work for me at all. Both because there is not time for it to evolve, after 4 minutes it’s like – yeah, these two are deeply in love now. I have this problem with several episodes, when a new character is introduced as a love interest for just one episode, the actors have to sell the hell out of that attraction, and unfortunately – I don’t feel it here. The two of them tell me about arrows piercing their hearts and so on, but as the audience – I don’t feel it. There are no sparks flying.
    I completely understand and respect what they were trying to do, though, and it’s nice to see Hawkeye fall not just for a pretty face, but for a beautiful person, who has given up so much for others.
    I also like the difference between quiet, introverted Kyong Soon who carries her heartbreak on the inside, and the loud, extroverted Margaret who is much more vocal (and physical) about hers. Maybe it was meant for that to be a comment on the differences in Easter/Western culture, even, I don’t know.
    Both women have similarities though, both are dedicated to others, both stuck in circumstances beyond their control.

    Love the scene with Margaret and Potter, I adore these two characters together. How accepting he is of her, with all of her sides, and how much she comes to trust and depend on him through the series. I’t so great that she finally finds an older man who she can trust, who doesn’t want anything from her other than friendship.

    I don’t believe Margaret talked to Donald about this whole situation with the nurse either. Margaret Houlihan is the queen of denial. Nothing happened, I’m just fine. Ties into her line about painting the car, she will just paint over this whole thing and pretend it didn’t happen. I do think it will come up later on, though, when their marriage is really falling apart I’m sure she will yell at him about the nurse with the nails. 🙂

    Love the last scene too, Margaret and Hawkeye are so good together and I love that they have come to this point in their relationship where they can share a drink and talk about their heartbreaks and everything that stinks. And he is probably a big reason Margaret is staying with Donald. She sees Hawkeye being heartbroken over this woman, and Margaret doesn’t want to be in his shoes. If she leaves Donald, she will be back at square one, no husband, nothing of her own, so she will fix it instead. Paint it over, even if it kills her.

    I see that I will have to fight all three of you about who’s the better Donald… I’m kidding, I’m very peaceful. I will buy you a cup of coffee, though (might not even be lousy) and explain why Donald number 2 is superior. Let me count the ways… 😀 😀 😀 If any of the two is a cheater with a nail-fetish, it’s got to be number 2, number 1 should not even have been allowed near Margaret in the first place, he is so boring and stiff! Frank Burns has more game than he does! 😀

    1. MK, I always imagined a loud, distraught phone call with Donald at the time, but your insightful analysis has convinced me and deepened my appreciation for the episode. Thank you!

  3. What a delightful set of guests for an episode that is not a particular favorite of mine. Like others have commented, the restraints of 70’s television, not to mention the whims of local syndication, are in full force here, negatively impacting the episode. I think the relationship between Hawkeye and Kyong Soon is beautifully written and acted, but the compressed time frame strains the credibility of their burgeoning relationship. If MASH was being broadcast (or streamed) today, we’d at least get a multi episode arc to develop their attraction and blossoming love. I’m with Rob, in that this episode isn’t necessarily BAD, but does stretch our suspension of disbelief. Although, MASH never was great regarding timeline issues. Again, in the mid 70’s, no one expected a bunch of obsessives like us picking over each episode with a fine tooth comb. Oh well! I like to imagine that various stories, some unseen as well as seen in other episodes, are taking place in and around the events of this episode. That’s my No Prize explanation and I’m sticking to it!
    Regarding Margret and Donald, I don’t think she ever told him, and I think her character, while growing past her earlier incarnation, was still in the mind set of “oh well, I have to make it work with him”. As we see in future seasons, she’d become alot stronger and more confident in herself as a woman and as an INDEPENDENT woman most especially. The Margret of season 9 would never accept Donald’s infidelity.
    Again, a great episode with delightful first time guests for an episode I like, even though I have superficial quibbles with it. For me, Carlyle is the ONE for Hawkeye, no one will take her place, especially after a 2 week romance. Looking forward to the rest of season 6 and beyond! That is all!

  4. Why do people like Winchester? Well look Klinger wears a dress to get out of the army but he does his job with a smile Hawkeye hates the war but he likes his co-workers and LOVES Potter.
    Charles REALLY REALLY DOESNT WANNA BE HERE and does’nt like hawkeye.

    1. Okay, I’m back. Sorry about the delay. Now, where were my notes…Oh, yeah! Right where I left them!

      Rob, this mother-daughter team of guests (with potential granddaughter sequel!) was super-charming, and they should return. Also, Ryan should ask them if they watch Cheers. You did your usual great job hosting.

      I’ve eaten a lot of unusual things and enjoyed some of them (“Things that would make a billy goat puke?” “I can’t say, Colonel Trautman. I don’t know what’s on that list.”). Given that, I would totally go for canned wild boar goulash — that is, until you mention the swollen can. That’s a no-go. No offense to any bacteria in the audience, but botulism suuuuuuuuucks.

      So, I share a lot of things with this audience that I might not share if I were using my real name. I have to say, I loved Colonel Potter’s (highly appropriate) assertion of authority in this episode as much as you did. However, I found his attempts to warn Hawkeye against falling in love with Kyung Soon laughably futile. I think actual loneliness beats potential heartbreak every time. One really can meet amazing, accomplished women struggling to help others in a war zone. Some other time, I’ll tell you about them. I have avoided falling in love with any of them, but only because I already had an amazing, accomplished woman struggling to help others at home. As a single man, I wouldn’t have even tried to resist. Do I think Hawkeye could have really fallen for Kyung Soon in two weeks? With the loneliness, and spending all his time with her, maybe. Plus, she had a cool car.

      Same day transfers can happen when the trouble is acute, as it is in this episode. My dad once went to an assignment where he was the NCO in charge of a team. He was put there to improve their performance, so there was a lot of attention on him. Dad (Technical Sergeant Entropy at the time) received regular direction from a hardnosed and very aggressive colonel by the name of Fisher, who I imagine was a few steps above him in the chain of command. Now Dad knew his job, had a reason for everything he did, and pushed back as hard as the proprieties of rank would allow. Consequently, he quickly earned Colonel Fisher’s respect. The NCO Dad had replaced had stayed on the base in another position. He started interfering with Dad’s direction of the team. Dad happened to mention the issue to Colonel Fisher. Fisher stopped the discussion to make a phone call, and the previous NCO-in-charge was off the base by the end of the day. My dad was surprised how seriously Colonel Fisher took the problem, but pleased to have a solution. He took note of what can be done when one has authority, connections, and a good reason.

      Keep up the great work, Iron Guts! You’re an inspiration to us all.

      1. I’m also in the “Intrigued-By-Wild-Boar-Goulash” camp.
        Similarly, I’d pass at the bulging can, thanks. That’s one for the rats, perhaps. Or as target practice at the rifle range. Definitely not for human consumption.

    2. (At least) one more thing: simultaneity. After “The Winchester Tapes,” which cover snippets of time over a period of a month or two, I’ve come to believe that in story, there must be multiple MASH episodes happening all at the same time. For example, this episode, wherein Hawkeye was mostly out of camp for two weeks, probably overlapped other episodes wherein Hawkeye was a lesser participant.

      Finally, Alan Alda seems to enjoy portraying and highlighting Hawkeye’s character flaws, like his belligerent arrogance at the beginning of this episode. I’d like to know more about why. Maybe you can tell us, Iron Guts, or maybe I’ll dig up some old interviews someday.

  5. This one has enough elements for a good three-episode arc. But compressing the entire romance into basically half of 22 minutes of airtime undermines it all. I do like the mirror reflections of the two plots: one relationship budding, the other withering, and both doomed to fail.

    And I think Charles was unduly punished by Hawkeye, throwing out his steak because hey, he’s miserable, so the rest of the world should be as well.. It smells bad? Hey Hawk, I’m willing to bet your still puts out some noxious odors of its own.

  6. Never understood why Margaret was mad at the other nurse. She didn’t know Donald was married and apparently wasn’t very interested in him beyond the drinks he bought her. And if she wanted to confirm if this was her Donald, why not just show the new nurse his picture and ask if this is him.

    I agree he doesn’t seem like a slimeball when we saw him. He was totally focused on her.

    The Hawkeye story was a bit of a stretch. Why did Potter send him to begin with? And trying to compress them falling in love in one episode (having to share screen time with the other plot) was hard to believe.

    I enjoyed hearing your mother/daughter team.

  7. It’s been a while since I’ve seen this, so I’ll see how I feel when I rewatch it. However, right now I’d say I like it overall. I do think it’s a bit rushed due to its half-hour format, since Hawkeye has to fall in love with her and lose her in such a short time, and we’re meant to feel it. But to be fair, I do think the acting between Alan Alda and Kieu Chinh was great, selling their connection about as well as they could. However, I agree that “The More I See You” was the better of the two serious Hawkeye romance episodes.

  8. Since I didn’t remember this episode very well, I’m going solely by watching it now in its entirety, and I really like it. I easily believe Hawkeye falling hard and fast in love, so the one-and-done pace is perfectly fine. This was a staple for TV back in the 70s and even the 80s, and you didn’t question back then. Just the way stories were told.

    I do have a thought on why the syndicator chopped out all of the romance scenes, and I really hate saying it, but here goes. This was depicting an interracial relationship, and they weren’t comfortable keeping it in. The 70s weren’t *that* enlightened of a time, and it would be very easy for that to be the rationalization. “Don’t want to upset the affiliates and have stations stop rerunning MASH, we need that money.” There, I said it, and I hate that I even thought it. But if that was the case, all the more reason to call it out for what it was.

    As for Margaret, there’s no way she actually talked to Donald, for another reason that was “part of the times” and sadly still a mentality today. If a man cheats, it’s treated as a failing on the woman’s part. Which is ridiculous, and a horrible double standard! But it’s a facet of our male-dominated culture and hasn’t completely gone away either. Look back a couple of episodes with Margaret desperate for some R&R, because “Donald has needs!” Oh Margaret, you’re too good for him.

    Wow, I’m just bringing the laughs today. But this was a fantastic discussion, and I LOVED Gloria and Teri! Please come back to the Swamp anytime.

  9. Hi Everyone!! Gloria here, of the Gloria and Teri who did this podcast. Thank you so much for all the kind words, it really meant alot. I am already planning on doing another episode if Robert will have me/us.

    1. I love this Mother-daughter duo on this episode of MASH-CAST. Gloria and Teri you both were Awesome! you both brought insight to this episode and actually changed my mind on how I originally felt about this episode.
      Before MASH-CAST when I’d watch this season I would skip this episode because I thought “O its just another love interest for Hawkeye, and ends up not working out. Same story different day” It was Hawkeye Focused. But, now….after the podcast I re-watched this episode it totally get it now. Plus being an adult now I’m seeing from an adult perspective it makes much more sense, then when I watched in my Teens
      Plus I completely forgot about the B-Plot with Margaret and the Nurse who talks about “Dimwit Donald” So Thank you!
      What I like too is that Colonel Potter is the Bridge between both Plots. He can’t seem to get a Win with either Hawkeye or Margaret. Especially with Margaret. At least Potter knows that he’s not going to get anywhere with Hawkeye. His last hope was that he would do something that would set Margaret at ease. But, as we learned that didn’t work.

      I’m so glad that I was able rewatch and get a new like for this Episode “In Love and War” I know I won’t be skipping it in the Future.
      That is all

  10. Hey everyone,

    Great episode Rob. Gloria and Teri, you two did a great job on the podcast. It was so cool to hear from fans who are mother and daughter.

    Rob and everyone, have your heard the news about Eileen Saki? It was announced recently on the M*A*S*H Matters Facebook page, that Eileen Saki who played Rosie has been diagnosed with cancer. If anyone wants to send Eileen words of encouragement, hope and appreciation you can email Eileen at this email address: sendinglove2rosie@gmail.com

    Spread the word and lets come together M*A*S*H to give Rosie our love.

    1. Michael Lerner, who played the Japan-obsessed dentist in the S2 episode “For Want of a Boot, has died at the age of 81.

  11. i’m a first generation fan. I didn’t see every episode but I saw most. With that being said, I didn’t see this episode until the early 1990s. I traveled the country for about ten years in the late 70s and 80s so I saw a lot of syndicated packages but this episode was never shown. With that said, I consider it to be a very weak episode.

    How about considering a filler episode where listeners who do not want to be a “guest” and tell how they found MASH and what it has meant to them. I always enjoy those stories from your newbies and I think that would make a good stand alone episode.

  12. Trying to think what would make a steak smell bad with what they showed and its hard to know. However since resources are scarce and fresh meat would be hard to come by it wouldn’t have surprised me if Winchester somehow got meat and then used rank and maybe some bribery to short dry age it in the fridges for a handful of weeks. If so then it could make the stake smell “off”. Then it looked like he was going to deglaze the pan with some wisky. Maybe to make a whisky sauce. Thought looking at it closely the meat wasn’t seared well amd there wasn’t any fond in the pan. But then again they didn’t really think someone was going to repeatedly watch that scene

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