Super Mates 100: House of Franklin-Stein Part 4

It’s the 100th Anniversary episode of Super Mates, and Chris and Cindy are throwing a Halloween Party! Join them as they discuss the modern classic, Wes Craven’s A Nightmare on Elm Street starring John Saxon, Heather Langenkmap, and of course, Robert Englund as Freddy Krueger!

Then the nightmares continue in Justice League of America #154 (May 1978). The League’s worst dreams come true thanks to the creepy Doctor Destiny, courtesy of Gerry Conway, Dick Dillin and Frank McLaughlin.

All this, and a few cameos by some very special party guests! Happy Halloween!!!

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This podcast is a proud member of the FIRE AND WATER PODCAST NETWORK

Clip credits:

A Nightmare on Elm Street directed by Wes Craven, music by Charles Bernstein

“The House of Franklinstein” by Terry O’Malley, of Stop Calling Me Frank

Halloween Party sounds by Once Upon a Whimsy and TheMSsoundeffects

25 responses to “Super Mates 100: House of Franklin-Stein Part 4

  1. FYI My parents attended Collinwood High School in Cleveland with Wes Craven in the late 1950s. He had a column in the school newspaper called “Craven’s Raven.” My mom said he was from a very religious family and would come to school dressed more formally than everyone else. It was a mostly Italian American neighborhood & he was something of an outsider. He kindly autographed a poster for the BGSU pop culture library several years ago.

    I’ve always had a sneaky suspicion that all those teen boys getting killed in his movies must have something to do with my dad & his buddies.


    Bob Dylan wrote and starred in the 1978 movie RENALDO AND CLARA, a half improvised, half scripted dreamlike impressionist painting of a movie. Different people play the same roles, women play men, other people “play” Bob Dylan, intermixed with real concert footage of Dylan in concert. And Ronee Blakely is part of the huge cast of actors and non-actors. The film has never been made available on home video, but of course it’s out there.


  3. I’ve never watched any of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies, and listening to this episode is probably as close as I’ll ever get to watching one of them. Still, I enjoyed your discussion of the film. Also, I’ve picked up the basic plot over the years through osmosis, and I appreciated finally having the details filled in.

    Thanks for another remarkable episode, and happy 100! I’m glad to hear that everyone had a good time at the party.

    1. If you ever dip your toe in, I would recommend the original here, Nightmare 3: The Dream Warriors (which I rewatched this weekend, post podcast recording) and New Nightmare. Essentially the Langenkamp Trilogy. 😉

      But thanks for listening Brian!


  4. Always a melancholy moment when HOF comes to an end. But, as always, a fun ride.

    Chris, considering how much of a self-described “weenie” you were as a kid, I’m surprised you ever watched NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET. I saw it as a young teen and while I agree it isn’t all that frightening, it has just enough that I could imagine it would work pretty well for those pre-disposed to be scared by horror movies.

    That JLA issue is great! From the Kaluta cover on down. I’ve always thought Dr Destiny was one of the JLA’s coolest villains, from his power set to his (later) Skeletor-esque appearance. One thing though–who the hell would want to dance on FLOATING HOLO DISCS?!? Talk about an accident waiting to happen! I imagine the nightclub’s insurance policy cost them a small fortune.

    Thanks for inviting me to the party!

    1. Thanks for coming Rob!

      I WAS a Weenie as a kid…until I watched my first TRUE horror film…John Carpenter’s The Thing. Needless to say that ripped off Band-Aid made most stuff pale by comparison! It was probably shortly before seeing Nightmare 2.


  5. Hey Chris and Cindy, I really enjoyed your coverage of Nightmare on Elm Street.

    I think I started watching the Nightmare on Elm Street series after Nightmare III came out on Video. and while I never saw ANY of the Nightmare films in the theater, I always caught them on video as soon as they hit the stores. I actually only watched the Nightmare films as Freddy had a speaking role and seemed just a bit less scary to me than Michael or Jason. I also think it made him more interesting as he wasn’t just a physical killer, but also a psychological terror.

    Of course by this point, Freddy masks, sweaters and gloves are all over the place at Halloween.
    Years later McFarlane toys came out with the Movie Maniacs line. I was working at a K.B. Toy Store at the time and while I had known about the plush Freddy and the Captain Action style figure. Their release was long before my time I was all too ready to buy the New Version.

    It was at this time that I had my most memorable experience with the Nightmare series. A few months earlier, I was working at the store and I was approached by a very angry customer who proceeded to read me the riot act over a series of Venom figures that were fairly EXTREME!!!! (This was the mid-late 90s after all.) She bragged about being part of the movement that got the old Freddy figures banned.

    For my part, I just explained I was an employee and that I have no input as to which items the store carried or didn’t carry and that even my manager had no say in the matter. I already knew at this point that the Movie Maniacs figures were coming out, but decided to keep that to myself just so that I could see her reaction when/if she ever came back. (she never did!)

    1. Ah, the angry mom groups! The Karens of the late 80s/early 90s! “Let me speak to your manager!”. Seriously, I totally get why they were miffed at a cuddly talking Freddy doll. For adult collectors, that’s fine, but little kids…not so much.

      I remember those McFarlane figures. I have the Ash from Evil Dead 2 around here somewhere. I don’t recall which Venom you are speaking of, but I do know the early 90s talking Venom in the Marve Super Heroes line from Toy Biz got some of that same ire as Freddy because ol’ Eddie Brock said “I want to eat your brain” or something like that! I believe they pulled that one from the shelf. But it’s no fun being on the receiving end of those rants, whether they or justified or not. I’ve worked retail…I know the pain!


      1. My Breakout moment was the day a woman came to me asking me where The Chuckie Dolls were…… I was at the time, completely unaware of the Chuckie character in the Rugrats series as I only knew the homicidal My buddy known as Chuckie in the Chld’s Play Franchise. I knew we at K.B. had no such doll…But I knew Spenser’s in the Mall Did have them! So taking my lesson’s from good ol’ Kiris Kringle in miracle on 34th Street, I sent the customer on to Spenser’s believing she’d find what she wanted there. A short while later as one of my co-workers and I were going through the store front facing the shelves, we came to the rugrats section. Sure enough, we had several Chuckie dolls and I let out an ump and uh oh.
        When she asked me what was the matter? I related the incident to her . Her laughter at the realization of my…blunder echoes in my ears to this day!

  6. Well, episode #100 may not have been Another Nail, but it was Another fine installment of the House. I really enjoyed your coverage of Nightmare on Elm St. more than I thought I would – it’s not really a movie I liked very much.
    And I should go over my history with it: even though I was the perfect age, about 16, when the original was released, I never saw it back then, because I just wasn’t a big fan of horror, and esp. not slasher-type films which Nightmare seemed to be. I picked up most of what it was about from cultural osmosis and the fact that Freddy quickly became this iconic pop culture character (which I always looked at a bit sideways). I finally watched the movie when I was somewhere in my mid-30s – it was on TV one night, I had nothing better to watch, so I figured, why not? And – I didn’t like it all that much, as could be expected. Although I remember being amused by the fact that a very young Johnny Depp starred in it, something I didn’t know before (or had forgotten). I did, however, pick up on the fact that the other, non-Langenkamp, girl was the same actress that played Beth in Better Off Dead (which I’ve seen many, many times), so I had this moment of malicious glee when she got offed – because she was such a jerk in a movie made a year or two later…

    Also enjoyed the coverage of the JLA issue; never had it – I only started picking up JLA regularly, like every month, a few issues later. However, it reminded me of a slightly later appearance by Dr. Destiny in (*pauses to look it up*) JLA #s 175-176.
    Anyway, as stated, a really great show – like all four of this year’s Houses.
    And I’m looking forward to your coverage of Another Nail in episode #150…

    1. Sorry you didn’t care much for the movie…or the subject matter we chose, but I appreciate you listening nonetheless. Maybe even more so!

      That series of JLA issues was also under consideration, but I thought I would go with the first appearance of skull-faced Destiny. Plus, a shorter story to synopsize!

      I think Another Nail would be a good FW Presents show with some other Network All-Stars. Fits in better there now…


  7. Happy 100th, Super Mates! I’m a Franklins fan, not a Freddy fan, though I watched the first three on cable because I was pretty sure they were required for high school graduation. Number four sounds intriguing. For me, Freddy and his humor are gross without being scary or funny, and most of the characters make inexplicable decisions (except for Nancy, who was legitimately very cool.). The Asian sleeping death syndrome origin was interesting. I’d heard of the phenomenon, but only just. And Dr. D is always a good fight for the JL of A.

    Good job handling the zombies, and thanks for inviting us to the party. Let’s do this again next year.

  8. Impressive podcast most impressive. Using the Dragon type and talk software again this time. My keyboard is still on the fritz. Other than the dream Warriors and the way TV show. I haven’t watched nightmare on Elm Street. I like Robert England will enough from his other roles. And do find it funny that he auditioned for Han Solo. And what he didn’t get the role he had heard of one of the other characters and thought his roommate whom was between jobs should give it a shot. That roommate being Mark Hamill. And Robert was happy for him when he got the job of Luke Skywalker. I remember hearing this from some interview Robert England gave somewhere. Johnny depth has been pretty good in most of his roles. Weird that at one time he wanted to be a big rock musician. And he took this gig to pay the bills. Though if Robert England or Christopher Walken had taken that role of Han solo. Star Wars would probably reason a very different movie. I liked the show just the 10 of us and I remember Heather on it. But, for whatever reason Cindy was my favorite character on that show. Don’t ask me why.

    Again other than the dream Warriors I wasn’t into name nightmare on Street. That’s pretty much the only movie I watched. Though it was funny in the dream Warriors where Freddie turns into a giant worm creature with his face on it. And attacks to women in there. One of the women takes a shard of glass from a broken mirror shoves it into Freddie’s face. And he looks back in pain and yells you. I laughed at that. I think the woman was supposed to be Freddie’s daughter. Been a while since I’ve watched this. I like John Saxton in the movie enter the Dragon. And other things I saw him on TV. My cousin Kristy had the action figure it all were talking about. I had Oscar. Weirdly I don’t think either one of us had the million dollar man action figure. On to the comic. The art is decent enough. And this story definitely reminds me of that JLU episode. The Scarface look of Dr. destiny and skeletal are probably comes from Thulsa Doom . Whom was a villain from the Kull books by Robert E Howard. More than likely both people were inspired by him.

    And no I’m not sure why in the movie James Earl Jones character is given that name when he’s clearly playing Thoth-Amon. Though that character’s name gets used in the the next movie Conan the destroyer. And I have no idea who that characters supposed be. So for some weird monster creature that does come out of the mirror that Kull fights in an old Marvel comic. That was probably based on one of the Robert E Howard stories. Any rate this is a pretty good story. In other than the brother John is sleeping song the cartoon from the justice league is pretty close to this comic. The landing black Canary does would probably shatter her ankles. Specifically when she does the jump with heels on. It’s almost as goofy as the black widow landing. But then again this is comics. If are going to point out that then we have to point out the fact that black canaries chop which would almost be a ridge hand. Wouldn’t land the way she’s throwing it. And that we she would have a way it less weight behind it with one of her feet off the ground. And it wouldn’t be her palm she hurt but the top half of her hand. Or the bottom. That type of ridge hand would not touch him with the Palm at all. Then again she doesn’t have her thumb tucked either. So she might’ve broken that. As for the violation wording. You can probably guess why in the 70s they would rather give that line to a woman.

    Since hearing it come out of a man’s mouth in the 70s would make people feel more uncomfortable as weird as that sounds. (CAUSE straight cis white male readers might see that as gay. And as oy as this is. They would avoid that as much as posable. At lest that’s what carport folks in comics may have thought of it as. )But, she does get to knock out the bad guys. So they’re not there yet, but they’re getting there. Slowly but surely. Barrett can’t wait to hear the next episode.

    1. Thanks for listening Liz. I had forgotten about the Han Solo thing. I had heard tha before I think. Robert Englund is apparently quite the raconteur. In the documentary “Never Sleep Again” the makeup guys joke they’d heard Robert’s stories 100 times each.


  9. Chris and Cindy, congratulations on 100 episodes! It’s such a wonderful achievement, not just that you’ve produced so many quality shows, but that you’ve done them all together. You’re a great podcasting duo. You play and feed off each other; your humor and charm emboldens each other. In short, you’ve got real chemistry. Go figure, huh? Cheers to your 100th and here’s to another hundred.

    As for the Elm Street franchise, my first exposure was… “Nightmare On My Street”, the song by DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. I heard some kids playing it at school during recess; one boy was actually lip-syncing to the song (we thought it was pretty scandalous when he mouthed the phrase “scared as Hell”). Anyway, this was around the time A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 4 was coming out. At some point around this time (memory is fuzzy) I saw most of the first movie on TV (edited, of course). The visuals that lingered with me were Freddy walking down the alley with his arms stretched super long, which was admittedly more absurd than scary, but still memorable. And then of course, Johnny Depp’s death, being swallowed by his own bed. That one messed with me for a while. And right after that scene, my dad announced, “Okay, Ryan, time for bed.” That was probably the only time I cursed at him.

    The point is, I thought the first Elm Street movie was scary enough based on what I’d seen. And then I rented the fourth movie when it came out, partly because it was called The Dream Master, and that reminded me of a Batman story called “Death of the Dream Master” in THE FURTHER ADVENTURES OF THE BATMAN. So, yeah, watched the fourth Nightmare, and boy that sucked. Not scary, and Freddy was kind of annoying. I would eventually piece together that Freddy’s growing popularity in popular culture, the things that made him more of a personality, like Elvira, also watered him down. That took the fun out, and as a result I lost interest in Freddy and his franchise pretty early on. I’ve only seen parts 1, 2, and 4 all the way through; seen parts of 5 and NEW NIGHTMARE. I’ve never seen 3, which some people say is the best, or among the best. Freddy just never held much appeal for me, but then neither did Jason Voorhees. When it came to the Big 3 slashers of that generation, I was always a Michael Myers/HALLOWEEN guy.

    But I really enjoyed your review and I’ve never thought of Nancy as such a strong female protagonist in this genre. It probably deserves a rewatch just to put it in that context. So well done there!

    Once more, congratulations on nailing another House of Franklinstein season, and capping your 100th episode of Super Mates Podcast. Happy Halloween!

    1. Oh, and I forgot to mention–er, rather, I already mentioned this earlier in the year: Freddy’s first on-screen victim, Amanda Wyss, played Woody’s former girlfriend Beth in two episodes of CHEERS.

      1. Thanks Ryan! I’m glad you think Cindy and I have chemistry. After 30 years…we’d better!

        I meant to talk about the DJ Jazzy Jeff/Fresh Prince song more, because that definitely helped raise the franchise’s profile (and theirs). I had no idea at the time it was unauthorized! I should reiterate the first film is indeed scary in theory, and well-made to BE scary…but I guess I’m just immune to its scares now. On the other hand, I watched The Innocents again a few weeks ago and still jumped at the atmospheric scares of that film. Very strange.

        I definitely see how coming into the franchise fully with a later film can change the way you look at Freddy. They really did go to the well WAY too often. He became a cariacature of his former self. The Sheldon of slasher horror in that way, I suppose.

        I would definitely recommend going back and watching the first one, and trying to divest yourself of the franchise baggage. I think you’ll see it’s squarely aimed at making Nancy a really strong hero…until the studio mandated tacked on ending kind of ruins it. Then go watch Dream Warriors, where she returns. It really does vie with the first as the best of the series.


  10. Congratulations on 100 episodes! The two of you have consistently knock it out of the park every episode and it’s great to see that you’ve hit the century milestone. And it’s true, Cindy, I DO have great taste!

    Like you, Chris, I was a bit of weenie as a kid and I didn’t want anything to do with horror movies. Heck, the Disney Sleepy Hollow cartoon was scary enough for me! But after high school, as I was learning more about how movies were made, I felt it was time to face my fears and start watching these “classic” slasher flicks. So I went through all the Halloween, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Leprechaun movies (one of these series is not like the others). And that first Nightmare movie was fantastic! Like you mentioned, having Freddy physically and/or emotionally torture his victims before killing them really sets him apart from the other slasher monsters. That, and all the quips. As other people have mentioned above, the bed FX gag was amazing and horrifying at the same time and I will never forget that as long as I live.

    I didn’t know that David Warner was in talks to be Freddy. Of course, my favourite role of his is Diilinger/Sark in Tron! I feel that Englund nailed the role and I’m not sure Warner would have brought the same energy. “You’re getting brutal, Sark. Brutal and needlessly sadistic.”… or maybe he would have done just as well. An interesting What If…?, though.

    Of course, my first experience with Freddy was Groundskeeper Willie in Nightmare on Evergreen Terrace in one of the Simpson’s Treehouse of Terror episodes. That set my expectations of what Freddy would be like and I was not disappointed.

    As for the JLA comic, Doctor Destiny has a fantastic look and always seems like he is a bigger deal than he really is for me. I know this comic is Pre-Crisis, but Post-Crisis he really gets dark in the Sandman series from what I remember.

    Well, it’s sad to see the House disappear into the fog and ether for another year but you guys were great and I am already looking forward to next year when I can step back into the House……. of Franklenstein!!!! Keep up the great work!

    1. Thanks Mike! I can’t help it, anytime someone mentions those Leprechaun movies, I think of that bit in Wayne’s World where Wayne scares Garth by repeating “I’m the Leprechaun!” over and over.

      I can’t believe I forgot to mention Tron for David Warner’s CV. I also mistakenly called the movie where he played (spoiler warning !) Jack the Ripper Time and Time Again…when it is actually Time After Time. I blame Mike Carlin.

      And yes, that Simpsons episode looms large in Freddy lore. Had we not already got so long-winded with the subject, I definitely would have brought that up!

      Believe it or not, we’re already talking about what to cover NEXT year! Just 364 days to go…well, actually only about 300 for us!


  11. I’ve also never seen a NoES film, but it sounds fun, in a Scooby-Doo way. That ‘I’m your boyfriend now’ line reminds me of the Papa Lazaru character from the BBC2 League of Gentleman series – he was truly disturbing, both in story terms as well as on a cultural stereotype level. Probably best not to look him up.

    That JLA story was loads of fun, and the Kaluta cover was unique in the series run. It was so rare to see him on a superhero book, I can remember the odd Superman and Batman issue. What else?

    Anyway, congrats on another great HoF season, I look forward to next year. Are you all cleaned up after that party?

    1. I don’t think I’d equate Freddy Kruger with Scobby-Doo, Martin…unless you guys got some twisted version of Scooby across the pond that we never did here!

      Unfortunately I did look up Papa Lazaru. Like some kind of freaky horror Al Jolsen. Yikes.

      I think the closest Kaluta got to super heroes (other than a few covers and stories here and there) was The Shadow, as far as I know.

      And thanks, but we’re all cleaned up now. The good think about having an old haunted house out back is when zombies bust the doors down…who’s really going to notice?

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