A Forever model. The man with the cyclo-heart. The best Female Fury. The Super-Cycle's pilot. A simple-minded giant. Which are hot, which are not? The Girls of the Hot Squad continue to assess Who's Who #2's entries for their sheer datability.
Featuring permanent panelists Nathalie, Josée, Shotgun, and Amélie.
Listen to Episode 10 below (the usual mature language warnings apply), or subscribe to the feed on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!
Relevant images and further credits at: Who's Hot and Who's Not ep.10 Supplemental
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13 responses to “Who’s Hot and Who’s Not? Ep.10: Beautiful Dreamer to Big Sir”
Thank you all for yet another fun show.
I should point out that Beautiful Dreamer was the character Amélie portrayed in episode 14 of Dad’s Done-in-One Wonders Podcast Wonder Show. My dad was actually one of the few FWPN podcasters that liked the Forever People, though he did joke about how he did not expect a comic title called “The Forever People” to be cancelled…
I read from a Mark Evanier piece that Big Barda was physically based on actress and singer Lainie Kazan, but the characterization of Barda, and her relationship with Scott Free, was based largely on the relationship of Jack Kirby and his wife Roz, so Barda’s character is based on Kirby’s wife in that regard.
I also read something else on Twitter recently that heavily implied that John Byrne’s notiorious Action Comics story in issues 592 and 593, in which Barda was hypnotized into performing in porno films, was likely retaliation for Jack Kirby parodying John Byrne in Destroyer Duck #4 with a character called Booster Cogburn, a company man [with a big ego] who could not be killed (a play on a John Byrne interview in Comic Scene #2 where he expressed his view of being against the idea of comic creators [such as Mr. Kirby] trying to retroactively claim rights for IP they created in comics under work for hire; stating that as a comic book artist at Marvel, he was a “cog in the machine” that was loyal to the company, implying that all comic artists should be the same. Mr. Kirby, not being fairly compensated for all of the IP he helped created for Marvel at the time, was obviously not a “happy cog”). If the retaliation theory is true, then that would make that deplorable Barda story by Mr. Byrne even more so…
(Of course, I did admire how you did not mention this particular Barda story on the podcast, and here I am doing so in the comments. Now who is being deplorable…?)
The story of Big Sir’s manipulation was indeed very very sad, but his tale in the Flash comic ended with him eventually realizing that Flash was good, and his condition was treated by scientists in Gorilla City (you’ll get there later) which resulted in him maturing up and having a very high IQ. Of course, that scenario wouldn’t work for the Bwa-ha-ha Justice League, whose writers decided to undo all that…
Back to the comments on Batman, I think the origin having Martha wearing pearls began with Frank Miller’s Dark Night Returns mini series (with a horrifying depiction of how the pearl necklace broke), but this was way before my time. So one of the elder comic historians like Chris Franklin should verify…
Amelie even looks like her.
Yes, thanks/no thanks on the Byrne story. You’re right that I did avoid it on purpose.
Waiting for Michael Bailey to show up and say “They didn’t actually MAKE a porno!!!”
I co-sign what Isamu said about Barda. Physically Lainie Kazan, but in spirit, she was Roz.
One interesting Forever People factoid: According to the book “Jack Kirby’s Heroes & Villains” by Kirby collaborator Greg Theakston (the inker on these pages), Kirby always had it in his mind that Big Bear was Beautiful Dreamer’s older brother, but since he never stated that outright, readers and other writers were unaware of the relationship that Kirby had envisioned. (And there really weren’t any subtext hints about their connection…perhaps Big Bear was protective of her, but he was protective and “brotherly” to the entire team, so you couldn’t read much into that.) So when J.M. DeMatteis brought the Forever People back in the 1980s, he had Beautiful Dreamer and Big Bear as a married couple (as you mentioned).
I should put that book on my reading list!
It may be hard to find and/or expensive. There were two editions of “Jack Kirby’s Heroes and Villains”; the first was a reproduction of Kirby’s personal sketchbook (a sketchbook he made as a gift for his wife) with pencil drawings of a wide assortment of his characters. In the second version (subtitled the “Black Magic Edition”), copies of those pencil drawings were given to several different artists to ink/finish, and it’s that version that mentions the background information that Big Bear was supposed to be Beautiful Dreamer’s brother.
All of the Kirby characters in this episode were featured in the sketchbook, inked by some impressive artists: Beautiful Dreamer by Joel Adams (an animator and Neal Adams’ son), Ben Boxer by Steve Rude, Big Barda by Dave Stevens, and Big Bear by Ande Parks.
I’m running late! My sandwich is going to get moldy!
Beautiful Dreamer: I think that close-up of her is one of the prettiest Kirby faces from this era. I’m not really a fan of Greg Theakston’s inks on Kirby. I think he stiffened the art up a lot. I wish Mike Royer were still around at DC to ink him. But BD is indeed quite beautiful. Leave it to the Girls to point out how close she is to a wardrobe malfunction!
Ben Boxer: His face in the close-up reminds me of an actor…Robert Conrad, maybe? I just realized Dr. Canus never got a Who’s Who entry?!? How did an anthropomorphic canine scientist companion NOT get a Who’s Who entry?!?
Big Barda: I really love this layout. Barda looks like she’s about to run right past you, without breaking any of the page borders. Just shows The King still had it. Bruce Timm is REALLY fond of Barda’s two-piece bikini look. It’s what she wears throughout the Batman Beyond episodes “The Call” parts 1 and 2!
Big Bear: For some reason Big Bear always reminded me of a younger, hairer Skipper from Gilligan’s Island, without the anger management issues. I can just see Alan Hale Jr. in this get-up, for some reason. I like that the big hairy guy got the pretty girl…except now it feels a bit icky with what Erich posted above!
Big Sir: I don’t like this character for many reasons, primarily what the girls said, but also they had him brutalize Flash so bad he crushed his face and he had to have reconstructive surgery in Gorilla City. It was just part of writer Cary Bates mercillessly tearing the Flash title down for years and years with no let-up.
The only character That I know about in this batch is Ben Boxer . As I’m currently reading jack Kirby Kamandi I’m on issue No.4 right know as write this.up till now I’ve only read the Kamandi challenge witch is great by the way . And I like Ben Boxer as I think he’s a great hero . I look forward to hearing the. Girls thoughts . On the Atomic man him self .
Radom question can any one name what comic company in the golden published books featuring these characters:
1. The western phantom.
2. Captain video .
3. Kaptian Kidd
4. The Radar man .
Impressive podcast most impressive.
So yes as other people have noted. Barta’s look was based on the mother from my big fat Greek wedding. Now you want to see a fanfiction with a remake of that movie. Where the parents are big Barta and scot-free. But, some of her characterization was probably based on Jack’s wife and his relationship with her. And we all know whom scot-free was based on.
I associate Big Sir with Charly from “Flowers for Algernon” because, as mentioned above, he eventually has his IQ increased by the scientists in Gorilla City, and then soon after, loses it again when seen later in Justice League.
I don’t know if *any* of it was planned that far ahead with his first appearance, but I’d like to think so.
The girls are right to be upset by how Big Sir was used as a tool rather than being treated as a person. Comics have generally not done the best job of p portraying any person with limited mental capacity whether it comes from injury, disease or random genetics. Such characters are almost always exploited in one way or another.
I wonder how hot (as in enraged) the group will be if you ever cover Validus.
Well done, everyone! Another entertaining show, as always! This show was not trash at all! I’m finally catching up but I realize there’s really nothing for me to say as I don’t know anything about the Forever People. I didn’t collect any of the series or any New Gods stuff. BUT I know the last entry…well, kind of….
Big Sir – I loved him in the few JLI appearances he had. But I had the same feeling as the ladies and commentators above. It was sad to see him exploited by his supposed friends. I really liked the look of his chain mail against the blue and orange. And I thought his flail/mace/whatever-that-weapon-is-called was cool.
Super fun everyone! I’m looking forward to catching up with the next episode. Keep up the great work!