Who’s Who in the DC Universe #7

It's the seventh sizzling issue of WHO'S WHO IN THE DC UNIVERSE featuring Aqualad, Barbara Gordon, Brother Power the Geek, The Chief, The Creeper, The Elongated Man, Justice League America, Killer Croc, Perry White, Shade the Changing Man, and more! Plus YOUR Listener Feedback!

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82 responses to “Who’s Who in the DC Universe #7

  1. Jumping in early, while I’m still listening (so more fun talk on the New Gods Nettie’s later on, yay!)

    That’s very much Barry Kitson art on the Barbara Gordon profile. Hence the BK signature. He had drawn the Batgirl Special you mentioned a while before this (written by Barbara Kesel). The Maguire/Kesel credit has to be incorrect..

    1. Regarding the New Gods – the entries here are numerous but with out too much comment. (Wah!) Necromina & Infernius of Darkseid’s Elite were creations of the Mark Evanier New Gods series that was running at the time of this Who’s Who series; one off characters who literally never appeared again. Not-so-Elite, I guess.

      And a New Genesis factoid, since you guys actually brought it up: the planet being destroyed (and Metron then finding a new planet to replace it) happened in the pages of Kirby’s Hunger Dogs graphic novel, which according to this entry seems to be presented here as a future tale? ….but by this point, that development had been backed up by Byrne during his Action Comics run as having already happened.

      Rich Hedden (his name was spelled wrong here, not a good issue for credit typos it seems) and Tom McSweeney didn’t seem to do a ton of comics work, but the majority of their work – much like Mark Nelson who popped up this ish as well – appears to have been at Dark Horse in its early days. Of note, they created The American in the pages of Dark Horse Presents.

      I was interested to hear about the Felix Faust/Outsiders backstory. I guess Barr had the idea of Faust’s son out there at DC a few years before that next Outsiders series ever happened; considering how Eradicator kinda seems shoehorned into that eventual title, perhaps Outsiders v3 was meant to start in 1990-91, instead of 1993.

      And the Justice League entry…..I loved it! How could anyone not! There, Shag, you have to read my entire comment now and unrelated also please tell me where you locked my family up. (My Copperhead hug comment made you laugh, too, that also has to count for something!)

      1. Hedden and McWeeney may have done some America stories for Dark Horse, but the character was created by Mark Verheiden, who will be working on the the upcoming DCUniverse app Swamp Thing show.

  2. Great show so far, gentlemen. A few comments…

    Barbara Gordon was indeed shot twice, and the Cormorant story actually happened before the Crisis, starting in Detective Comics v1 issue 491, cover-dated June 1980.

    Checkmate had first appeared in an Action Comics issue (v1 issue 598, as you had stated) which was written and penciled by John Byrne as an introduction (“back-door pilot”) of the upcoming series, which may explain why Shag believed there was a “Byrne connection” in the creation.

    Major Force actually killed Kyle’s girlfriend, Alex DeWitt in Green Lantern v3 issue 54. He pretended to kill Kyle’s mother in issue 180, but the head in the oven was just a mannequin… evidently a very life-life mannequin. (Kyle’s mother would later be killed by the Sinestro sentient virus Despotellis, as revealed in the Sinestro Corps War special…)

    Parasite was most likely designed by Al Plastino, who illustrated the story in Action Comics v1 issue 340.

    Perry White had actually always been the editor of the Daily Planet, which was first named in Action Comics v1 issue 23 (cover-dated April 1940, a few months before Perry White’s first appearance in Superman v1 issue 7, cover-dated November 1940). Why the name changed from the Daily Star (first named in Superman v1 issue 2, cover-dated Fall 1939) was never explained in story.

    Wonder Woman’s Supporting Cast: Did you know that Julia Kapetelis was based on a real person and friend of George Perez? This note, along with a photograph, can be found in Comics Interview issue 50.

    1. Still listening, but I wanted to comment while I was thinking about it.

      Like Xum said, Checkmate first appeared in Action Comics 598, by Byrne. I spoke with Paul Kupperberg on Episode 19 of Task Force X, and he did confirm (if my memory hasn’t failed me) that while he and Erwin did indeed create Checkmate, Byrne did have some input and helped with the Knights costume design. So Shag is not wrong (for once), John Byrne did indeed have input on the costumes for the Knights

      And yes, the whole Oracle being around while Babs was still Batgirl, is indeed a retconned (that, again, I don’t think was followed up anywhere). Oracle was created after The Killing Joke, when John and Kim (Yale), wanted to do something with the character to rescue her from the damage Killing Joke did to her.
      In fact on Task Force X, I just finished The Janus Directive and have covered the first “appearances” of Oracle, somewhat recently. Oracle also made appearances in the Mark Shaw Manhunter book (early in her “career”).

    2. Yeah, realized about Kyle Rayner’s girlfriend (rather than mother) after recording. When you are talking non-stop for 2 hours and 45 minutes off the top of your head, mistakes will happen. Sorry I mis-spoke!

  3. I bet that the “BK” in the Barbara Gordon profile stands for Barry Kitson; the credits were just wrong. Maguire and Kesel made a great team, as seen here: https://twitter.com/MichelFiffe/status/1009806580123095040

    Re: The Creeper profile. (Mike’s Amazing World got Rich Hedden’s name wrong, too, btw. He’s listed as RICK.) Anyway, the inker’s name was wrong, too. It’s actually, Tom McWeeney, who according to Tom’s comment on FB, “That Creeper piece wound up being part of a larger pitch to bring back the character. We got an editor behind it and began work on the story but it fell apart when DC reshuffled the character deck and the Creeper wound up with a different, less interested editor.”

    Linda Medley & Arthur Adams teamed up before in an Action 600 pin-up featuring a slew of characters, including JLI & Firestorm: https://imgur.com/r/DCcomics/Nw0VPkY

    Another one for the books, gentlemen.

    1. Thanks to everyone for the help about the Creeper entry. Realized while I was putting together the Image Gallery about Hedden’s name being misspelled. He and McWeeney have done some really great looking stuff together!!

      And thanks to Michel for getting the info from McWeeney about the possible Creeper series!!

  4. Re: the Comixology digital release. I was a little unhappy with some of the entries. So I took the time to go in and it fix up. I color corrected all the pages they messed up (including Bouncing Boy, Captain Marvel Jr, Monster Society of Evil, Mr Tawkey-Tawney), fixed minor color corrections that have ALWAYS bothered me (like Superboy’s white hand on the Legion entry), fixed the cut-off art work (including Brainiac 5, Nightwing) and added back the missing entries (Doctor Light and Kobra – though they aren’t in digital like the rest). I also redid the boarders so they were all consistent. If anyone is interested in getting CBZ copies of these – and owns the series already – let me know and I’ll figure out how to get them to you.

    Brother Power – I really think The Geek has only had 6 appearances. And a third of those were Who’s Who entries.

    Checkmate – I had the first issue where they take down the white suppremist ring. I loved when he pulled his glove off to reveal he is Black as a rebuttal. Sad that scene seems more poignant 31 years later.

    Darkseid’s Elite – Sorry guys, I disagree with you on this one. To me this entry is entirely pedestrian. There is nothing about it that stands out. And like the Glorious Godfrey/Amazing Grace entry, it feels like Byrne just drew in the suggestions of the background rather than making it a fully realized environment.

    Elongated Man – It is a relief that thanks to Gail Simone, Ralph and Sue are back together and well in the comics. I am patiently waiting for them to introduce Sue on The Flash and show Ralph fall totally head over heals for her.

    Jan Arrah – I wish the transgender aspects of Shvaughn/Sean Erin from 5YL were as concise as you laid them out. Regrettably, they were not. While it is commendable that they attempted to tackle the issue during the early 90s, the result was less than stellar. Also, the Jan-centric issue you were referring to (LSH v4 #31) was only partly drawn by Doran. the other part was drawn by Curt Swan (who had to be wondering what the hell he had signed on for with this issue).

    Justice League America – It always bugged me that they didn’t do a Justice League Europe entry with the JLA on the monitor behind them.

    Killer Croc – this version is Florida Man.

    New Genesis – Those two kids in the foreground look like the Murderous Moppets from Venture Bros.

    Here, again is the link to the Justice League roster:

    And here is the link to the new Legion of Super-Heroes roster (Rob, you can skip this one):

    As mentioned by Shagg, neither of these are small files. But I hope you all find them well worth the time to look through.

    1. Amazing work!
      (two tiny nitpicks…. General Glory’s sidekick was always called Ernie regardless of their real name (The original Ernie was Ernest E. Earnest) Also. I loved your inclusion of the entire JLU but I was dismayed to see that you left out the Justice Guild. Even though they were actually long dead, the Guild DID exist in an alternate world and are as worthy of inclusion as the Earth 2 JSA in my honest opinion)

        1. OH Wow! right above the Super Buddies!!! My bad!
          (Note to self: schedule eye examine. I think my glasses need an upgrade!)

          1. No worries. There is a LOT on there. It’s easy to miss it. In fact, when you said you couldn’t find them I was scared I had missed them myself.

      1. That’s actually not the most glaring omission in this run of Who’s Who but we’re a long way off from that fun little mishap so I’ll save it for a year or two.

  5. Would have loved to see some more Puppet Elementals, like Scarface or Vigilante’s enemy, the Dummy..

    Hedden and McWeeney were the creators of Roachmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roachmill published by Blackthorne and Dark Horse.

    Harry the Pillow will show up in issue 18.

    The Felix Faust illo looks very Luke McDonnell-ish.

    The Element Lad gallery needed a shot of his green & black Cockrum costume, or the short-lived Kirbyish one.

    The post-Crisis history of Killer Croc, since it doesn’t mention that he killed Jason Todd’s parents.

    Parasite may possibly have been designed by Jim Shooter, as he claimed on his website.

  6. I think Comixology shot-gunned through the Classic Who’s Who because they were getting ready to Mega binge Detective Comics in time for Detective #1000. (they’ve gotten to the point where they’ve pushed almost everything else DC related to the side just so that they can put out more Detective)

    I did know how Petey and Jack ended up at the conclusion of DeMatteis’s run on Doctor Fate. But I always wanted to see them revisited. “Whatever Happened To…?” stories have always been nice call-backs to old supporting/obscure characters (One of the Green Lantern 80 Page Giants from the late 90s featured a Whatever Happened to G’Nort? story)

    The thing I always notice about the Darkseid’s Elite page is it looks as if they’re trying to homage the Justice League #1 cover. They’re all standing around…(albeit a little more spread out than the League) But they’re all looking up at the Camera as if they’re waiting for the poor photographer to quit wetting his pants and take the picture already! (Kalibak looks as if he’s actually saying something to that effect!)

    After reading Ralph’s profile, I keep hoping that each new season of the Flash will be the one where they introduce Sue. I don’t get as choked up anymore about Identity/Infinite Crisis anymore since I seem to recall the Dibny’s deaths have since been undone.

    Every time I look at the Justice League entry, all I can see is L-Ron’s hand and think, “If he had one more finger, he would totally be doing the Vulcan salute!”

  7. Thanks for all the props this episode! And there is so much to talk about this issue but I will try to keep this to just a couple.

    Barbara Gordon – I have to agree that the BK has to be Barry Kitson, the art certainly looks like his.

    The Creeper – I feel that I love the idea of the Creeper more than any actual Creeper stories. The look, the sort of gangly agile fighter, the maniacal laughter if the ‘mad hero’. That all works. I think the best Creeper stories are the ones where creator Steve Ditko is unfettered. So I would point to the first story in Showcase and the ones in World’s Finest. After that I would point to the CarlGafford/Dave Gibbons stories which were Flash backups. I will also add that the Keith Giffen post-crisis origin (as in Secret Origins) which explains the madness aspect of the Creeper worked a ton for me. As for you guys, Rob should cover the Alan Brennert B&B story.

    Elongated Man – I’m surprised they didn’t show Sue Dibny in jeans. Isn’t that her famous look? Oh, I’m sorry the famous looks is Jean in Sue Dibny.

    Jan Arrah – I would describe Jan as the spiritual center of the Legion, something which was a part of his character in the Levitz/Giffen Baxter era but really surged to the forefront in the 5YL run. As you say, that moment in 5YL LSH #12 where he says the Legion cannot kill Roxxas is my favorite moment of that whole run.

    Phase – she is hot. But she is not the hottest. I do like this costume as it adds a ghostly/phantom feel to her look. But I like the Cockrum bell bottom look more.

    Shade the Changing Man – the Ditko series is about as impenetrable/incomprehensible as you can get. But I still love them. But the Milligan stuff is just brilliant. It came out at the perfect time for me as a reader. So bizarre, riffing on the oddities of American culture, perfect Bachalo art … it is fantastic. This is one of those series that I revisit every couple of years and remain impressed. Just perfect.

    Anyways, that Creeper entry is brilliant. Amazing.

  8. A Who’s Who to pull me through a Monday where I feel pretty crummy, but not enough to miss work. Thanks guys!

    A few comments on the first few entries

    Aqualad- What a great piece! I love the “Secret Origin”. I would have loved to have seen Lightle draw a Teen Titans throwback story or mini-series!

    Batgirl – This is all sorts of wrong. As everyone pointed out, that’s Barry Kitson. Love the piece, but DANG, Babs is got some LONG legs as Batgirl there. Bob Kane didn’t come anywhere near Barbara’s creation as far as I know. Willliam Dozier should get more credit than Kane does. Dozier (producer of the Batman TV series) wanted to introduce a new female heroine to the show, and perhaps even in her own series. He reached out to DC and Bat-editor Julius Schwartz, writer Gardner Fox and artists Carmine Infantino and Sid Greene gave us “The Million Dollar Debut of Batgirl” in Detective #359, which hit stands during the show’s 2nd season run.

    So any of those guys deserve more credit than Kane, who as far as I know, was not involved in her creation in any way. Maybe he had a hand in the Betty/Bette Kane Bat-Girl’s creation, but I kind of doubt that too.


    1. Bob Kane’s father was a lawyer so any concept created during the “by Bob Kane” era was legally obliged to be credited as created by him until very recently when Bill Finger finally got some of his due.

  9. Great podcast as usual guys. I’m glad you were fascinated by the behind the scenes info about how Keith Giffen characterised Ayla. I’m definitely going to be referencing more info I’ve picked up in this write up.

    Coincidentally I was rereading Comics International issue 20 from May 1992 last night and it includes an in depth article on DC’s plans for new series for 1992 which links to a lot of the characters featured in Who’s Who.

    Aqualad – I love the fact that Lightle is clearly drawing Ramona Fradon’s Garth in the flashback panels. He was always very good at this kind of sampling in his Legion run when he would base facial features on John Forte or Curt Swan versions.

    Barbara Gordon – as everyone else has commented this is definitely Barry Kitson art. And Shag is right. Babs should be listed as a hero.

    Blockbuster – he looks kind of booby. And why are his jeans undone. Is this a fetish for someone? So many questions.

    Brother Power the Geek – really doesn’t surprise me that he was reborn in the early 90s as there really was a trend towards looking back to the 70s. The CI article I mentioned above trails an ongoing Geek series by Stefan Petrucha and Chas Truog that was going to launch in winter 92 but never happened. It sounds like they were planning to go for a horror treatment so the darkness of Giffen’s art seems apt. By the way can someone create a cartoon strip of 8 year old Neil Gaiman.

    Checkmate – as others have said Byrne was definitely involved in their creation. I remember the house ad for the series said created by Paul Kupperberg, John Byrne and Steve Erwin.

    The Chief – love the steampunk chair.

    The Creeper – in the modern computerised world it’s amazing how much a spelling error can hinder research. I remember tracing this layout to draw a picture of Wolverine. How 90s of me. You mentioned that Creeper had just appeared in Hawk and Dove but you need to remember that he appeared as the winner of a competition to pick a guest star for the series. The series of letter columns that list all the suggestions and the reasons given for why they should guest star were really fun. As is the story.

    Darkseid’s Elite – I really don’t enjoy Byrne’s entries in the loose leaf. Particularly when compared to his older entries. He seems to need a surprint to make his composition interesting.

    The Demon – if you’ve not read this series go out and but the issue were the hordes of hell sing all their lines to show tunes.

    Elongated Man – great combination of old and new style art. Love the prominence given to Sue (who never had any bad experiences) and the fact that the entry managed to feature 3 different costumes. I remember when this Who’s Who came out being blown away by the then new colouring by Tom McCraw on so many of the entries and not liking the flatter Tony Tollin pages, but the selection of background colour here really makes EM pop. Obviously teenage Damien didn’t know everything.

    Felix Faust – obviously the Outsiders relaunch was already in the planning stages with Brasfield attached. By the time of the 92 preview Brasfield has gone to Marvel to draw Christian superheroes and there is a Bryan Hitch image of the Outsiders including Faust and a description of the series that perfectly matches the eventual Barr and Pelletier series.

    Global Guardians – Olympian is super hot.

    Jan Arrah – Colleen Doran is the ultimate Element Lad artist. She drew the third of Baxter Legion 27 where Levitz introduced the crystal structures from this image as well as the later Shvaughn/Sean issue. According to the interviews in Twomorrows Legion Companion the original plan was for Shvaughn to be killed by Roxxas in 5yl Legion 3 but Al Gordon didn’t want her to die. When Giffen said why should I keep her alive? What’s interesting about her? Gordon said she’s trans which intrigued Giffen enough to change who Roxxas killed in issue 3. Apparently this was a longtime legion fan theory.

    JLA – beautiful art. Can’t believe you didn’t mention Batman’s shadow falling on J’onn’s cloak. I love the way Hughes implies his there but not there. Separating Bats from the bwah ha ha!

    Killer Croc – I really find him boring but who am I to judge? My favourite Conway Firestorm villain is Silver Deer.

    Major Force – this is my favourite Broderick piece from the loose leaf. Shag sounded surprised that someone working for the government could be a villain. Rob, you’re going to have to tell him who the President is.

    New Genesis – Kirby Kidz!

    Oberon – I commented last episode that Joe Phillips exists as gay fan service. He has clearly drawn Scott without his mask and Max Lord off-model as an excuse to draw sexy men. I’m not complaining.

    Parasite – you mentioned in your pre-amble that Sudden Death is not in this issue but is rumoured to be. Parasite’s victim looks a lot like the surfer dude Sudden Death was in his first app (also drawn by Wozniak). As for the discussed of who designed the original Parasite. Jim Shooter drew layouts for all the stories he did for Mort Weisinger so there’s a good chance he also designed the character.

    Perry White – my favourite entry of the issue. The kid Jerry looks so hopeful, it’s heartbreaking when you know the end of his story.

    Phase – she’s Phantom Girl. She wore that costume in the magic wars. Later retcons should be ignored. By this point the Bierbaums had established that she was married to Jo Nah so he should be listed in her relatives. I know it’s unsigned but I’ve always thought this entry was not inked by Dick Giordano. It looks more like Al Gordon to me.

    Shade – I can’t really add anything to your races about this other than to praise Rian Hughes’s logo design. He is a genius.

    Tweedles – 2nd best page of the book.

    WW Supporting Cast – I haven’t got a source but I’m sure I read that Byrne’s WW cast was based on real people just like Perez’s. Maybe it was a conscious decision to copy Perez.

    1. On Phase, no retcon contradicts that she was Tinya. After Zero Hour, Phantom Girl (now Apparition) had a Carggite father, but her two other selves were sold to the Luck Lords. One of the babies grew up to be a croupier at one of their casinos, and she’s the one who was tossed back in time with amnesia. When part of the Legion spent time in the 20th Century, Apparition and Phase met up and merged. The other self was never found, but this means both Apparition and Phase were Tinya Wazzo.

      1. (Well, that comment appeared in the wrong spot. I blame Glorith.)

        ‘Gordon said she’s trans which intrigued Giffen enough to change who Roxxas killed in issue 3. Apparently this was a longtime legion fan theory.’ I remember this business! I hate that the story became that Shvaughan was actually Shaun because some Legion fans couldn’t let go of the idea that Jan was gay… well, he had a pink costume with an arrow pointing upwards, and a perm – ridiculous!

  10. I was about to chime in on the Perry as editor of The Daily Star thing but Xum beat me to it. The only thing I will add is that while it was never explained in the comics why the paper changed names there is a potentially apocryphal explanation that the Star became the Planet because of the Superman newspaper strip. Apparently they didn’t want to run into the problem in cities with multiple newspapers where a comic strip could potentially mention the name of a rival paper. I don’t know how on the level that story is because it’s not like every city had a Daily Star in it, but it’s the legend I’ve read about on numerous occasions.

  11. A few more thoughts:

    The Justice League America- This always makes me sad, because we NEVER got that JLE entry to go with it! That particular team never got featured in this iteration of Who’s Who.

    Phase – She was definitely a trendsetter with her more practical “hoodie” super suit. Generation of CW super heroes would follow her. Great piece, too.

    Tweedledee and Tweedledum – These two have been in the Batman Rogues Gallery since the early days, but they were largely forgotten for decades, and only resurfaced in big Bat-villain team-ups as background players. They got a little more play around this time, particularly as henchfolk for the Joker in Gibbon’s and Rude’s World’s Finest mini-series, but Rude drew them a bit differently. This entry is fantastic!

    Wonder Woman Supporting Cast – I always thought it weird that Byrne replaced the Kapatelis family with the Sandsmark clones, but your reasoning makes sense, Shag.

    Fun episode guys! Now to listen to the feedback half!

  12. Oh, and in feedback, Power Girl originally had the boob window. Somewhere along the way in the All-Star run, before Wally Wood left the book, the boob window was dropped, and eventually the costume evolved under incoming artist Joe Staton into the “scoop neck look”. None of this stopped Wood from increasing PG’s cup size before he left the title.

    I have heard incoming DC publisher Jenette Kahn decreed the boob window be dropped, but that may be an urban legend.


  13. A wonderful show as always, gentlemen. A few very brief comments:

    1. The first appearances of Brother Power are a fun mix of cuckoo nuts and innocent that you only got in the swinging 60s. Later attempts to capture that insanity are done with too much self-awareness, it you get my meaning, and are not worth the effort. That goes double for Shade the Changing Man. As a matter of fact, that describes my feelings about a bunch of the characters in this issue (Demon and Creeper on the top of this list).

    2. I know this runs counter to the point I just made, but, Shag, you have to dig into the Doom Patrol series! I have never loved something I wanted to hate more. I am still ardent that Silver Age Doom Patrol is the best Doom Patrol, but if Morrison’s run is as clever as the TV show, I may be forced to give it a second chance.

    3. The Checkmate design is awesome, and worth mentioning even if you’ve already made the point before. The costume is so cool that I continue to attempt to read the series every couple of years before discovering that it isn’t that good of a story. Still, it’s a great costume.

    4. Did one of you say that Elongated Man is “as good as Plastic Man?” As if that were a compliment. Ralph is the far superior malleable man. Plas is well behind Reed Richards and Rubber Duck from the Zoo Crew for my money.

    5. The Global Guardians have always had more potential than they are given the chance to show. A huge cast full of diverse characters with unique power sets? Add in some political intrigue befitting their goal standing and I would tune into that every Saturday morning.

    6. This is a cheap shot, but Booster and Beetle have the sorts of smiles on their faces in the JLA cover image that I wonder what parts of Fire’s anatomy they are holding her up by.

    7. Phantom Girl is the hottest Legionnaire, but this is not the outfit in which she earns those honors. Even with the frumpy attire, Maguire’s art is lovely.

    Speaking of lovely, Prof. Xum continue to knock his entries out of the park. I’d still love an actual Xum’s Who book to add to my collection. Just post the Kickstarter link in the comments below, Xum.

    1. I said, “Elongated Man is Plastic Man +2”. What I meant by that was that Elongated Man is better than Plastic Man. 🙂 Frighteningly, that puts me and Phylemon on the same trajectory.

      1. Hey, even a broken clock is right two times a day, although I’ll leave it to the public to decide which of us is the broken clock and which of us is the Atomic one.

  14. Am I the only one who listens to an episode, has several moments he wants to comment on, but by the time the episode is over, my head is so overwhelmed in the joyful minutia of the DC Universe, I cant even remember what it was I wanted to comment about? I love listening, so its a great thing but man, my head is swimming in comics stuff by the end.

        1. I usually have the same problem as Frank, mostly because I’m driving while listening. But this time around I did was Martin does, and jotted notes in my Notepad app.

  15. To: David A. Gutiérrez, Executive Producer, FW Podcasts LLC
    Re: Co-host Robert J. Kelly’s slanderous suggestion that Diabolu Frank is an unctuous nerd bully who calls on people’s superiors like some uptight Becky straight out of the Richie Rich town of Kingwood, north of Houston.

    I’m actually from the south side. Represent. And I didn’t even jump on the colossal Barry Kitson Batgirl blunder made by two guys associated with major JLA-related fan projects like six other people and counting so far. Didn’t one of you even do the promo for the first year of JLMay, covering the Waid/Kitson JLA: Year One maxi-series of 1994?

    A) Glad the Filmation series had a positive impact on the Aquafamily, and I might like Aqualad if Steve Lightle had drawn him more often.

    B) It may have been entirely second hand and it in no way improves the esteem of Will Payton in my mind, but you have to admit that Starman π had a solid rogues gallery (even if Blockbuster was an odd inclusion.)

    C) Brother Power represents that awkward Giffen period following his Muñoz & Maguire inspired material but before he transition to the insane Trencher squiggles. It plays especially poorly here, as The Geek requires a disconcerting whimsy to contrast against the darker themes. When you try to go full dark with him, he comes off more like Raggedy Roddy Stewart with a yarn mullet. I’m imaging him singing “Infatuation” in the key of Elmo to Janice from Electric Mayhem.

    D) The Checkmate knight uniform is the only good thing about Government Cheese S.H.I.E.L.D.

    E) I was put off by the affected weirdness of Morrison Doom Patrol and never had much use for Richard Case, but the Giffen/Clarke series made me really reevaluate characters like The Chief. Hope I get the chance to check out the TV show sometime.

    F) Rich Hedden co-created Roachmill with inker Tom McWeeney, a modest success of the ’80s B&W boom. It’s an okay profile page, but doesn’t win me over any better than most of DC’s attempts with this character. In story, I could see him almost working in JLI, Eclipso, and the Secret Origins story, so basically only stuff involving Keith Giffen (that guy again.) Visually though? I don’t even think Steve Ditko put over his own creation, and I see Creeper as the bridge between the Ditko material people still care about (Blue Beetle, Question, Hawk & Dove) and the self-published stuff only the Kool-Aid drinkers suck down. The sole Creeper book worth checking out in my experience was the Vertigo mini-series with the female dadaist version in 1920s Paris by Jason Hall & Cliff Chang.

    I) never would have imagined the combination of Carmine Infantino and Bart Sears would have worked, but the Elongated Man entry is a bit of old fashioned alright. I really like Sue’s outfit. The Craig Brasfield art on Felix Faust makes him look more interesting than he is.

    J) I’ve always been intrigued by the Global Guardians and dug Ed Barreto’s old entry art, but the Medley/Adams work here just is not doing it for me. It does look like a pitch for a well-intended, committee-conceived children’s cartoon, but one of those dogs that failed right out of the gate. “Hey, look at the zany forn’rs from them backwerd not-U.S.A. countries!”

    K) Colleen Doran doing Keith Giffen doing her favorite Legionnaire still looks nice. Shag’s gotta work on he/his trans pronouns, but his heart’s in the right place. It betrays my loyalties that my favorite part of Adam Hughes’ J.L.A. entry was the hall of fame bit at the back with J’Onn front & center.

    L) Mark Nelson’s Killer Croc looks a bit scrawny, but I’ll take that any day over the Breyfogle/Kelly Jones Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade floats to come. Croc begs the question of whether Slipknot, Enforcer, Plastique, Hyena, Weasel, Mindboggler, and Black Bison would also have had more fulfilling careers in the Batman’s rogues gallery, or if they would all have been tossed into the dustbin of history with other forgettable Bronze Age villains divorced from Firestorm’s lower standard of villainy?

    M) Speaking of which, Captain Atom has far fewer rogues in his gallery than The Nuclear Man’s, but the ones he does have work way better, and Major Force arguably tops anyone Firestorm’s got (Killer Frost being the only serious competition.) As I discuss on this week’s upcoming episode of The Spawnometer covering the first issue of Grant Morrison’s brief run, the dark mirror archetype is very important in super-hero comics, and serves Captain Atom well for most of his modern existence through Major Force. Firestorm had to wait nearly forty years for Deathstorm, and even then, that’s more of a simple “evil mirror universe version” than the more rich “dark mirror.”

    N) I hope Ava DuVernay can make me feel more about the New Gods than Jack Kirby and a slew of other comics greats ever managed to, but I fear it’s likely they’ll drag the director down with them. Let’s be honest. Marvel Studios’ Asgard and Inhumans didn’t exactly set the world on fire, either. I like Oberon so much that I once wanted to steal him from Mr. Miracle for the supporting cast of a Martian Manhunter book,

    G) I took a nap in my car while listening during lunch, so I slept through two entries that I have to circle back to now. Has “Darkseid’s Elite” ever been canon, or just used for this entry? It’s a good catch-all, though YMMV on how elite the jumped-up morts of Apokolips happen to be.

    H) As I commented recently on the FW Team-Up episode with m’boy Illegal Machine, I thought the Alan Grant series was crap that floated too long in the bowl because of the sugary carbohydrate that was constant Lobo guest appearances. Val Semeiks is one of my least favorite comic artists, and given how many people I’ve slagged on over the course of the Who’s Who Podcast, that’s saying something. However, the Ennis/McCrea Demon is one of my favorite comic book runs.

    1. I think it’s kinda telling that so far no one has called me on the fact that I didn’t mention Killer Croc was in the SUICIDE SQUAD movie.

      1. I had heard stories about how the SUICIDE SQUAD movie make-up artists were not happy with some of the actor Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje’s improvised ideas on set that resulted in… damaging the make-up prostethics…

      2. > I think it’s kinda telling that so far no one has called me on the fact that I didn’t mention Killer Croc was in the SUICIDE SQUAD movie.

        We’re in collective denial that SUICIDE SQUAD ever happened.

  16. Another great episode! I have to chime in about the addicting nature of the theme song. My daughter was in the car with me the other day when I started playing the episode. After just the first two notes of the intro, she said, “How come they never actually talk about Woozie Winks?” I cracked up. The only thing better will be in a few years when she looks at me contemplatively and says, “Daddy, why does Rob hate the Legion?”

  17. Quick question re: Parasite.

    Who’s Who entries notwithstanding, WERE there any appearances of Parasite after the end of Firestorm’s series (he was in a pretty sorry state after his one and only run-in with the Elemental version. It wasn’t even much of a fight) before he started appearing as a Superman villain again? As I recall, they even changed his color back to purple pretty much immediately.

    1. Intetestingly, I believe the reason the Parasite was not initially used as a Superman villain post-Crisis was because, early into the new Superman mythos (Adventures of Superman v1 issue 442), it was established that one could not “steal” Superman’s powers per se. The best that could happen was the Parasite would siphon away the solar energy from Superman’s body — which would give the Parasite a sun tan (or skin cancer) rather than the Kryptonian super abilities…

      Of course, this concept was dropped once the Superman creative team wanted to use the Parasite…

  18. A couple thoughts as I listen:

    Byrne was involved in creation of Checkmate. Since he and Kupperberg were buddies, I believe Paul approached Byrne with the idea and asked him to do all of the original character designs, and thus got the co-creation credit on the concept. Rob should use his Kupperberg connection to get more details.

    Rich Hedden & Tom McWeeney, as many loyal listeners have already noted in the comments section, did work for Dark Horse and Blackthorne comics. However, they also contributed 4 issues to the original Mirage Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series. They did a one-and-done story titled “Toitle Anxiety” in issue #34 and a 3 issue arc titled “Spaced Out” that ran through issues 38-40 of volume 1 of the original Mirage series. All 4 of these issues are collected in a single TPB from IDW, which is TMNT Classics TPB vol 5, which instocktrades has for $13.99 at 30% off.

    But that’s not all they contributed to the TMNT lore. They also had a short story “Turtle Power” in an issue of Turtle Soup, and did a one-shot TMNT special titled “The Maltese Turtles” in the early 1990s.

  19. O) Whatever my many faults, I’m just not stupid enough or so lacking in taste to be capable of comprehending the so-called “thought” process that went into turning Parasite lime-skinned in a tangerine singlet. Trading out one of the best Superman villains to awkward-transitional-slump Firestorm because John Byrne was using a piece of Kryptonian rocketship metal to split his own navel hairs at the subatomic level is exactly the kind of stinking thinking that sank DC right back to second place or less after its brief moment of promise Post-Crisis. Was this some sort of Jon Peters-type bizarre latent homophobia against the color purple?

    P) I’ve never not-liked Lois Lane, but social media has helped guide me toward a greater respect for her and Jimmy Olsen’s importance to Superman lore and American comics. Perry White is big blob of nothing. I guess he’s a sounding board for Lois and Jimmy, which seems to work better in media outside comics, but I don’t see how he’s supposed to relate to Clark Kent. He’s not much of an authority figure, he’s no surrogate father (especially in continuities where Pa’s still alive) and he’s not a peer or friend. He just hands out assignments and bores me with his occasional soap opera subplots. He’s fading name recognition and dumb catchphrases.

    Q) Phantom Girl is one of the best Legionnaires, and Phase was a girl person in L.E.G.I.O.N. “I am a humanoid with intangibility who reminds you this book has ties to the 30th century, but I’ve got amnesia and won’t commit to anything of consequence in the 20th century.” Also, I’m going to get Byrney over “phasing,” which shouldn’t be a thing DC characters do. Kitty Pryde “phases.” The moon has phases. Children go through a Batman phase. Just because everyone read Chris Claremont comics in the ’80s doesn’t mean everyone should use the same terminology when “intangibility” is the dictionary definition of what these characters can do. See also: ethereal, impalpable, evanescent, incorporeal, insubstantial, and ghost-like.

    R) I read an issue or two of Shade when Vertigo was getting started, and I think Wizard (of all places) did an article on it. Didn’t grab me. Ditko’s Shade was no Creeper.

    S) “Going back to Carroll, eh? It’s certainly a popular reference, yes? There may be a bit of overlap with other villains in the rogues gallery, but it’s hard to resist the likes of Cheshire Cat, the March Hare and especially The Queen of Hear– oh! Ohhh. Tweedledum and Tweedledee? That is a choice. I congratulate your daring and determination to the road less traveled. Good luck with that…”

    T) If only George Perez had inked every page of Chris Marrinan’s run on Wonder Woman, it could have still looked overall disappointing and drab, but really finely embellished as seen in the Supporting Cast entry. On the one hand, it’s a testament to how little regard DC has for Wonder Woman that they dumped her entire supporting cast onto one page, even though any one of them had more screen time and development in this period than a Lana Lang or Alfred Pennyworth. I mean, did Harold the Batcave hunchback ever have pages of prose cursive text devoted to his deepening high school crush and a speech delivered in a gymnasium like Vanessa Kappadeltagammaphidelis? I think not! On the other hand, would we all have been much happier if the other heroes’ casts had also been treated to group profiles (so we wouldn’t have to read the tortured details of a cuckolded Perry White raising the bastard child of Lex Luthor ((who’d rather be called “Jerry” even though he was ironically named “Perry Jr.” (((Did he get the “J” in Jerry from Junior? And did no one inform him that if he was just going to pull a brand new name out of his butthole, he could rechristen himself “Snake Plissken?” ((((And what does Jerry White say about the prospect of “nature versus nurture” in breaking bad despite a seemingly wholesome upbringing? Were the triangle era creators proposing a genetic predisposition toward criminality that could be best resolved for society through eugenic abortions, or just hacky?)))) Was the reminder a few pages earlier that Perry’s non-biological son had his soul conscribed for eternity to a demon from Hell a desirable outcome of forcing writers to fill out an entire profile page dedicated to Perry White all by himself when you could have gotten a nice tidy entry summarizing the gist of a mildly entertaining flavor character like Inspector Ed Indelicato instead?)))))) All this is to say that while Perez’s Princess Diana was so one-note and limited that her book needed to be propped up by spending too much time on reg’lar folks, at least Perez had a talent for writing toward the domestic that endeared those characters to a small but devoted cult following who probably should have been checking in on Love & Rockets or Omaha the Cat Dancer instead. And none of them slept with Lex Luthor for cheap melodrama. That we know of. Julia. (It would explain that Silver Swan nonsense, but let’s not look for an excuse to prop up Ernst Rüdin in the current climate, shan’t we?)

    1. Perry White rules. He’s a mentor, father figure, moral centre, plot engine… And he knows the value of pithy prose.

  20. A fine episode, and one worth the wait while other podcasts and real life happened.
    The Creeper – search for “sticks m leggy out really far” to see the memes this entry inspired
    Perry White – Frank is entirely correct about the distasteful Jerry White storyline, but incorrect about Perry as a character. He has a staunch idealism (especially regarding journalistic integrity) tempered by harsh experience in the real world. In a complex story, he can provide an interesting voice and even counterpoint to the rest of the supporting cast. See his turn in Elliot S. Maggin’s Miracle Monday novel, for example. Also, this entry makes him look like he could carry a series that I would totally buy.

    Xum – That Fortress entry is amazing. If I were running DC, we’d buy it from you and publish it. That said, your single-digit donation rule brings to mind a panhandler I once met. I tried to give him the change in my pocket, only to learn that “We’re only accepting paper today.” Feel free to auto-forward single-digit donations to me to prevent clogging your spam folder. You’re welcome, of course.

    Hoods look boss, but most are entirely impractical as action wear. They muffle hearing, and unless they are tailored to closely fit the head, they interfere with peripheral vision and flop down either a) constantly or b) only at the least convenient times. Of course, domino masks hide almost nothing, and some cowl designs are even worse on peripheral vision, so tailored hoods do well by comparison. Spidey-style head socks with big, opaque eyelets or Mother Box-enabled face paint masks á la Mr. Miracle are better options. For that matter, Ted Kord’s headgear was hecka practical. The large goggles obscured the eyes while allowing a full field of view. José Delgado’s had similar advantages, but it also included a helmet. Helmets are a must if one fully expects people to be hitting you!

  21. Two more points:
    1) Jeff’s JPEGs should be walk art I can buy in my LCS.
    2) Picking the hottest Legionnaire is like trying to pick the prettiest actor or actress on Riverdale. Sensors can’t consistently distinguish differences that minute. For practical purposes, it’s whichever one I’ve seen drawn well most recently. So it’s currently Tinya Wazzo.

  22. In retrospect, I don’t know where the confusion about Sudden Death’s placement in the series comes from. Issue 11 is the one with only 23 names on the cover instead of the usual 24.

    Aqualad: You know, I don’t think I ever twigged to the fact that was Tusky and not some random sea life. I wasn’t raised on the Aquaman cartoon and it shows.

    Blockbuster: One of the very few characters improved by Underworld Unleashed. As a big brute, who cares. Dime a dozen. As a superstrong GENIUS, he becomes interesting.

    Creeper/Shade: Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, the Charlton heroes… But otherwise, Ditko’s creations are to me either unworkable or only worked after massive alterations by later creative teams. Creeper can be an interesting guest-star, especially if his alter ego is played well, but is too confused a concept for the lead. The Milligan Shade series was terrific (the current Shade is also good), but a very confused concept as designed by Ditko. Other characters that have fare better through other writers include Hawk & Dove and Speedball. One that might because I do like the idea: Stalker.

    I’m pretty sure I had other comments while listening, but waiting too long to put them to paper. Sorry about that.

  23. Great episode as always, gents! Since there’s already a lot to go through here, I’ll just make 4 quick comments on some profile pictures:
    1) Barbara Gordon: I like Barry Kitson’s work, but man, this is a boring, awkwardly laid out piece. Also, the “logo” just looks lazy.
    2) The Chief: another stellar piece by Richard Case. Wish I’d had all of these to put up next to my Case-drawn DP poster back in my old dorm room. Yeah, that’s right: I was super cool even then.
    3) The Creeper: I like the Creeper. I do not like this piece. I think it comes down to his briefs: they look like a metallic shell more than a piece of clothing to me. They do not look…comfy.
    4) Elongated Man: even with the questionable proportions/perspective (stretching powers notwithstanding), this is my favorite piece in the issue. I may be biased, as I love Ralph, Sue, and Carmine, but hey.
    Thanks, FW Duo!

  24. I never knew about the loose sleeve who’s who until I picked up a loose sleeve who’s who for the DCC RPG. So that leaves to my big question is when are we going to get a Who’s Who and hero points mashup. Who’s the hero!

  25. Re: The Creeper. I like The Creeper, but I don’t like this pin-up. The straight leg and straight arm are not “Creeper-ish.” The Creeper should always be seen crouching, leaping, or hunched over. His limbs and spine at all sorts of bent angles. This pose is too dramatic and declamatory. Like an ham actor playing The Creeper. Shag, I recommend Creeper’s guest appearance in the “Bat-Murderer” storyline from Detective Comics #444-448, also reprinted in a Digest! (Best of DC #9. Thanks Mike’s Amazing World!) I also liked his appearance in Secret Society of Super-Villains, as well as Brave and the Bold.

    Brother Power, The Geek. The character and the title were such a mystery to us comics fans in that era between the 60s and ubiquitous comics shops. Glimpsed in ads in old comics and a brief entry in back-issue catalogs. I am particularly fond of a Hembeck page where Superman in auditioning new Justice League members. In successive panels he considers Supergirl, Firestorm, Black Lightning (“we could commute to meetings together!”) B’Wana Beast (“who let this loser in?”), and Man-Bat, before revealing that he’s already chosen Brother Power!

  26. Tip-top episode, mateys!

    Aqualad. Happy Aquatic Teen Day! You don’t know Aquatic Teen Day? It’s only the best episode of Titan Up The Defence podcast in ages, as Hub goes through the first appearances of Namorita, Aquagirl I and, of course, Garth… fantastic stuff, and if Tusky could hear underwater, he’d love it. Canny entry.

    That bit in the Batgirl entry about her having used to fantasise about being a superhero. That’s a reference to her shortlived stint as Mighty Girl from pre-crisis Superboy, surely!

    Brother Power, the Geek was always being mentioned in British fanzines so Gaiman likely heard of him there.

    I never liked the checkmate concept, I don’t do government organisations. I tried the Rucka series but he tried to hard for authentic spytalk that it was like reading a (very dull) textbook.

    Is Anj Creeper’s number one fan, or only fan! Kidding. I never get him either. Every Alan Brennert couldn’t write a story with him that I liked.

    Shagg, what’s with using ‘backside’ when talking about the flipside of entries? It’s just ‘back’ or ‘reverse’. Don’t be smutty! I demand you re-record this episode!

    To me, Felix Faust will always be an A-list villain, as the star of the first issue of justice League I ever read – and is there a more iconic cover than Justice League of America #10? Yeah, it homaged Sensation Comics #109 but it is just joyful in its sheer comics goodness.

    Phase was phab but as the good Captain Entropy says, hoods on superheroes are dumb, they knacker the peripheral vision. Not that Tinya HAD a hood, it was a cowl collar. Great drawing, she looks like Coby Smulders.

    Have you seen Danny De Vito as a circus fella in the new Dumbo – I’ve only seen clips, I’m waiting until I’ve seen the old Dumbo – because he is utterly Oberon.

  27. Coming in late with this, but it’s been that kind month.

    Perry White: I love this version of Perry. Like many aspects of this era I consider him “my” Perry White, along side Lane Smith on LOIS AND CLARK. I liked the backstory they developed for him and his issue of WORLD OF METROPOLIS was the strongest of the series. It’s weird when you consider that Alice having an affair with Lex was actually less shocking than Lex having a strip search video of teenage Lois.

    Anyway, from 1986 to probably around 2003 Perry was a dynamic force in the Superman comics and the groundwork for that was laid out in the history contained in this entry. This Perry was the gruff, father figure of the Planet and a man of principles. Yes, he was the romanticized version of the crusading editor, but that doesn’t matter. You need character dynamics like that for a series involving a flying man. It’s a shame that supporting characters in general have taken a back seat in the Superman books (though it’s better than it used to be) and this Perry surely benefited from having as many as five ongoing Superman books to give him room to grow. I don’t think I’ll ever truly forgive Geoff Johns for making him a warmed over Jackie Cooper nor will I forgive the writers during THE TRUTH storyline that turned him into an out and out jerk.

    End of rant. Great episode as always.

  28. Cool pod cast. I now want to be drawn in by Prof Xum as the Super villain Suda -name. As Earth Prime Robins nemesis . (Chris Franklin. Who else would be Earth Prime Robin.) And I could keep Logic ass out of the Battle by tossing her the issues of Heroes in Crisis. If that fails to set her into a freak out…then I give her Cry for Justice. To keep her out of the fight. Mwwwaahhhaaaaa! No idea what my crimes would be. My image can bee seen on my twitter…just don’t look at the stuff I like on there. It’s worse than the Doctor’s browser history. Hmm, maybe I could go al tower of Bable. I keep Fire Storm Shagg out of it, by having him one of my Tomb length comments. 😀 I keep Aqua Man out of it by handing Rob a LSH trade. Maybe have a new one made drawn by Rob Lefield and written by Chuck Austin. Mahhaaaa!

  29. Hello! After listening to over 170 hours of a history of Rome podcast, I have returned! I also now own 1% of the Kitana Banana franchise! Thanks, David!

    Xum has already explained about Babs injuries so I shan’t repeat, but I will say that leading up to Crisis and beyond Barbara was really taking a beating (internally and externally). The character seemed to be on a downward spiral and it is sad that she retired under such circumstances.

    Regarding the chesticle (ie. Breast) talk, it’s really weird to have a bunch of MEN discussing this. If only you actually KNEW WHAT IT WAS LIKE! 0_0

    I listened to this episode while on a drive with my mother. She was entertained and even laughed when Shag said he ate a whole sleeve of thin mints. She wondered if Creeper was based off of Rhondo the actor?

    Thanks for your entertaining show and for letting me show off my Barbara knowledge!

    <3 Stella

      1. One more thing! I found it funny Blockbuster followed Babs in this issue. As Oracle, she siphons money from him to fund her team’s missions and Blockbuster goes into rages when he finds out each time it happens. It’s hilarious!

  30. Ok, so, I listened to this driving to and from Atlanta, so trying to remember all my comments AND make time to get them all down (that’s my most common fail-point in this whole ‘commenting on podcasts’ thing), well, I’m just glad this worked out!

    Brother Power the Geek – The mid 90’s found me recently seriously into the Amazing work of Mike Allred, Especially but not limited to Madman (his true opus). Thus I was an easy mark for the special, which was Odd, but my memories of it tend to make me think if Allred wasn’t doing art for something related to him, I’d not get into another iteration.

    Checkmate – I recently began Seriously Attempting to Start Reading Suicide Squad->also Checkmate, at the appropriate time, but I already have way too many reading projects I’m in the middle of, which I’ll get to more on later, but for now I’ll just say I’m in April of 1975 (my birth year! (but not month)) of my As Complete As I can Track Down Reading Order of all Marvel main-line continuity books, starting with FF#1. Made feasible by those wonderful GetCorp DVDs, as well as any Essential Reading Material etc…

    The Chief – So, the Doom Patrol was the first DC comic I ever collected, having been a Marvel Kid growing up, but having been forced to sell all mine and my brother’s collections when she found out how evil they were (did you know Mary Jane Parker posed for Playboy!? And some random indie hero we’d never collected was an Atheist!?), I found it easier to return to comics (once I had a drivers license and income) via the ‘brand new to me’ DC. My strange tastes instantly latched onto the Grant Morrison run of DP, which was recently enough begun that a modicum of back issue diving and that handy TPB reprint of the first few issues, ‘Crawling From the Wreckage’ (iirc, sharing the name with issue 19?) that I was able to net ~a complete run. I tried to continue into the Rachel Pollack run, but while I was fine with her writing, it was the Ted McEever art that INSTANTLY caused me to drop the book. Later on in life, I discovered the same woman also wrote my favorite book on the tarot, 78 Degrees of Wisdom, and that got me to consider re-reading that run, if I ever actually get to it, as I’m stalled out in the early teens of the Kupperberg era…

    And Oh Goddess Yes the DC Universe TV show is Brain-Bendingly excellent!!!! Right up there with Legion in: Best comic to screen adaptation Evar!

    The Creeper – Never been a fan of this guy, which is odd, when you consider How much I love basically everything else that Ditko guy had a hand in, like Spider-man, Dr. Strange, Blue Beetle & Shade the Changing Man (As for the Question, really only the Renee Montoya version).

    Elongated Man – A few years after I got in on the ground floor, with Doom Patrol and Shade (see below), I started seriously diving back issue bins, and became a HUGE fan of the JLI era and then bc of that Elongated Man and Sue Dibny. They are legit second only to Scott and Barda Free as my favorite straight couple in comics. Even though I grew up a Marvel Kid, for some reason it’s DC that can claim that (Sue Storm is way too good for Reed, who is easily number fifth or sixteenth in my ‘favorite stretchable heroes’ lists (I’d put Ms. Marvel above Plas, but only by an embiggened hair, and Ralph is easily #1 for me, and Sue being such a big part of his life, and practically all good Ralph Stories, is a big reason why.

    Global Guardians – Am i the only one wondering how literally HALF of the team are white (Even if the new Jack O’Lantern is Black Irish, pretty sure that doesn’t count!)?

    Jan Arrah – So, speaking of all those reading projects, one of them has been Legion, beginning with that oh-so famous trolling of Superboy, and going forward. I’m currently paused Right Before the Great Darkness Saga. Going into this Legion run, I had, thru Comic Fan Osmosis, picked up a smattering of info about the Legion, including the following: Element Lad and Shrinking Violet were some of the earliest gay and lesbian representation in comics… but not yet, as my reading had shown (just recently V was mooning over… I think Colossal Boy?) Then, last episode I learned not just SV, but Also Lightning Lass (I was still used to thinking of her as Light Lass, totally in love with Timberwolf) were being queercoded as in a relationship, and I began rather eagerly looking forward to this Bierbaum run! Then, this episode I find out it’s not that Jan is gay, its that he’s pansexual, and even better, that cool Science Police officer I’d just been introduced to recently is gonna be developed as Trans! Yays!… only after skimming some of the other comments, it’s a bit more… awkward than that, or something. Either way, I’m looking forward to the journey, as I have most of the steps along the way.

    Oberon – Also thru the JLI, and then the ~simultaneous Mister Miracle series, I came to love not only my favorite straight couple in comics, but their live in support cast of one as well!

    Parasite – Seeing him in green and not purple is a little odd.

    Perry White – wow. listening in the car, I was kinda imagining the images sight unseen, but looking at them later, most were quite a bit less impressive than my imagined layout (D’s Elite and Global Guardians especially) but this one far exceeded my imagination.

    Phantom Girl – oh, that’s another thing I knew going in. Phantom Girl was Shag’s hottest Legionnaire. Now, having read right up to tGDS and having seen this super cute pic, I can safely say that he is right. Hoisted on the perennial ‘Do I want to be her or be with her?’ dilemma, I find the answer is Yes.

    Shade – So, simultaneously to me getting into Doom Patrol, my best bud was getting into Shade the Changing Man, and of course we read each other’s issues… yeah, I loved them both. As I do this art piece!

    WW Supporting Cast – What an odd little entry. Does anyone else’s supporting cast get a group shot with their hero and coverage like this? I’m guessing the Superman supporting cast were either big enough to warrant a full entry (see Perry) or not updated enough to get one, but anyone else? Also, I LOVE the idea of Vanessa Kapatelis eventually becoming Wonder Girl!

  31. As usual, another great episode. My own notes:

    1. Since Shag mentioned it at the start, I was curious to know how much $4.95 in 2019 dollars is. So I went to an inflation calculator. You can’t buy a car with it, but $4.95 in today’s dollar is $9.63.

    2. During the Demon’s entry, Shag mentioned that his first appearance was from August 1972, and it was the month he was born. I don’t know how comfortable I am knowing that Shag and I were both born August 1972.

    3. Regarding the Tweeds – when Shag mentioned that he thought they were identical brothers, but they are really identical cousins, the Patty Duke theme song starting going through my head.

    4. I have to agree with Rob here – Rob was very positive this entire episode. In fact, I’d argue that Shag pooped on more entries than Rob did!

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