Let’s all give a big Bat Family welcome to the entertainment at this month’s Reunion – our favorite Bat-DJ Matthew Davis! In his podcast debut, Matthew talks with Shawn and Paul about Detective Comics #491, where we get a lot of basketball, a dark turn in Batgirl’s story, and Jason Bard! Oh, and Maxie Zeus – can’t win ‘em all, I guess. Enjoy some cold cuts and lemonade!
This month’s Bat Family History links for Marty Pasko:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Pasko
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/main/features/creator.php?creatorid=42
https://variety.com/2020/tv/obituaries-people-news/martin-pasko-dead-dies-dc-comics-1234603850/
https://www.tcj.com/martin-pasko-1954-2020/
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0664632/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Hey old chums it’s cousin Bucky . I brought black bean burgers. On sour dough buns with the works no onions. Jeremy is reading a bullwinkle comics with uncle Adam. I’m setting up an inflatable Rocky and bullwinkle dressed as flash and black lightning. Ring toss . Something different the winners get a Rocky dressed as Robin plush or a bullwinkle dressed as Batman or black lightning plush .
[Scene opens: Isamu is straining to listen to the latest BATMAN FAMILY REUNION podcast through lots of heavy static (must be a bad day for his Colorado mountain area’s dial-up internet…)]
PODCAST UNCLE SHAUN: “Isamu… I am not **static** If you do this, I’m **static** but there should be a list of every time the globe on top of the Daily Planet building got busted up!”
PODCAST UNCLE PAUL: “I think that list will be too long–“
[Isamu’s finger dramatically snaps the pause button.]
ISAMU: “Great Scott! What an amazing coincidence! I happen to be writing a college term paper on that very subject (along with my dissertation about my experience of watching Disney’s THE BLACK HOLE movie in the theater 25 years before I was born…)! I happen to have my notes… right… here…”
[Isamu pulls out a large piece of foamboard adorned with several Post-It ™ notes of various colors, with several thumbtacked lines of string making webbed connections between them.]
“Let’s see, the entire Daily Planet building was destroyed by Superman in Action Comics #214… and that would include the globe… Oh, but that was destroyed off-panel. It doesn’t count if we don’t see it…”
“Superman #138 then. Here we go…”
“Then Action Comics #295…”
“I think this scene in Action Comics #302 would count…”
“Superman #169…”
“Action Comics #343…”
“I think the globe manages to survive until Action Comics #398… when Galaxy Communications takes over, and takes the globe down…”
“But of course it needs to get damaged one more time while that happens…”
“I think I skipped over a few instances, let me check my Dad’s…”
[Isamu’s elbow accidentally brushes the pause switch…]
PODCAST UNCLE SHAUN: “(static) Do not do that! I am FORBIDDING you, Isamu from **static** If you do that, I will BLOCK you from ever listening to us again! **static** Isamu, do not do it! Don’t! Don’t! Don’t! Don’t!”
ISAMU: “Oh, gosh. Oh, gee. I’m going to make Uncle Shawn mad! At least I didn’t do the whole list… but I better delete this… just in case… There!”
[In his haste, Isamu’s finger dramatically stabs the post button by mistake…]
Amazing research!
Yeah, well done, Isamu. If Uncle Shawn truly didn’t want you to do some research he’d have edited the section out.
Bad Uncle Shawn.
Well, as per Uncle Shawn’s wishes, perhaps someone else can check when the globe was busted up after it returns atop the WGBS building in World’s Finest #274 (checking from that issue on, Action Comics #527 on, DC Comics Presents #42 on, and Superman #370 on)…
Isamu. This is Uncle Chris. Don’t “don’t” listen to Uncle Shawn. Go outside. Take a walk. Ride a bike. STEP AWAY FROM THE ELECTRONIC DEVICE.
I think this is all gonna lead to either needing to all go see Disney’s the black hole together or some one needs to podcast about it and the comics and Disney needs to make a short with robots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL46rSUXW1k&pp=ygUUdGVhY2hlciB0ZWFjaGVyIHNvbmc%3D
Shawn , you haven’t heard this song? That is a crime against your knowledge sir. You pour man to miss this important song. This must be corrected. Never saw ge movie, but still the song is awesome. Also to bring food to the reunion . I shall bring bagel corn dogs. Those are corn dogs, but the hot dog is baked into a bagel.. With teriyaki sauce on the side for those who want it. If not then ketchup or mustard. I’ll write more later. Still cool podcast as always.
Oh Bruce’s suit was cool. Some ware Prince is becoming inspired by this suit on the 70s. As he gets vexed that Fubky town is the first big hit from his home town and becomes famous because of those two things…. That’s a joke no idea if he read this issue, but the suit does remind me of Prince’s love of purple suits. Though can’t see the tie in the images y’all posted. Was it a simple black tie? Or one with pattern?
Another fine episode.
I really enjoyed the background on Marty Pasko. I didn’t know much about him, but I knew all the projects he worked on and enjoyed a lot of them.
The Hostess ad was unfamiliar to me. I’m glad you posted it in the gallery so I could discover “The Destroyer” who was wrecking the Hoover Dam was actually … Superman in a bad costume and one of those “bald wigs” you would find on a different page along with X-ray Specs. I could be mistaken because it looks like the ad was drawn by Curt Swan and his great and distinct drawing style was burned into my brain before I learned how to read.
Superman must have read the edict on the Hostess advert campaign by Sol Harrison that forbade the hero characters from eating the snacks (see TwoMorrows’ COMIC BOOK ARTIST #7, pages 9 and 126), and came up with the “Destroyer” masquerade so he can have the sweet treat…
It’s barbecue time again! I’m bringing that British classic Turkey Twizzlers, along with the marvelous summer beverage Vimto (an anagram, appropriately enough).
Thanks for going through another issue which aspires to ‘mediocre’ – yet another Detective Comics giant without a proper super villain. As ever, what makes Batman Family Reunion one of the best comic podcasts around is the supporting material from Paul and Shawn. I especially enjoyed the in-depth look at the life and work of Martin Pasko, creator of the Master Jailer, the 20th century Grimbor! I’m no Pesky Pasko but I also got a job in comics due to being a lettercol regular… there was no campaign. Mind, I have also written My Little Pony.
Fantastic first-time guest Matthew is right, Batman would know what Hephaestus looks like from Wonder Woman files in the JLA Satellite because she fought him in that fantastic Judy Garland-alike two parter by Marty Pasko and Jose Delbo in #226-227. But it wasn’t the face that was the clue. Yes, the blacksmith god did often have a limp in Greek mythology – he was Olympus’s answer to Jason Bard. But he also sometimes had a bent back, and that was undoubtedly the resemblance Batman was referring to – look at how Don Newton drew one shoulder significantly raised compared to the other.
If I were Jason Bard I’d have put super-pungent roses on my father’s grave and hope his corpse choked.
Goodness yes, that Black Lightning script was wordy – did Marty Pasko think he had 17 pages to play with? And I was not pleased with the depowering, making Jeff’s strips even duller than previously – I don’t think depowering the African-American character would go down at all well with readers today, and rightly so… what did buyers back then reckon to it? (Incidentally, how come JSA legacy obsessive Geoff Johns never gave him a kid called Zack Lightning to tag team Jakeem Thunder?) I think you’re right, he was depowered to make him more Batman Family-friendly, but that’s terribly short term thinking, he’s obviously not going to be in ‘Tec forever.
A sign that Black Lightning really shouldn’t be in this book is that he has a good logo – but only when the two words are stacked, they’re all kinds of wrong on one line here.
Am I the only British reader to giggle at ‘Jack C Harris’. There’s this expression, you see, ‘up the jacksy’. Anyway, while JCH may not have written the most exciting Batgirl – no one did until Cary Burkett brought us Lady Viper and Barbara Randall gave us Velvet Tiger -JCH was very good on Wonder Woman for a short run which included my favourite Bronze Age issue, #246, the classic ‘Darkness, darkness everywhere’, which taught me the word ‘condominium’. If you need convincing, if I may plug, I did a bit on it a while back at Too Dangerous For a Girl: https://dangermart.blog/2020/08/23/retro-review-wonder-woman-246-1978-2/
I’m not impressed by Barbara’s attitude – her main criteria for accepting a job is that it allows her to slack off and play Batgirl! I’m more impressed, though, that she described the not-conventionally good looking Dick Bender (titter) as ‘nice looking’.
And how stupid is Batgirl? climbing up a rope to examine what she’s been told is a bomb trap rather than just having it safely exploded?
Regarding the Robin story, and the Man in Black, smoking disgusting, filthy, horrible obnoxious cigarettes is stupid if you’re trying to follow someone with guile – they’ll smell you a mile off.
Now, put me down for a slot on Super-Team Family Festival!
Impressive podcast most impressive. The cover could use some work. The bit with Dick looking like Dafney from the Scooby Doo cartoons. Not great. Ah well. The Bat splash page is good with Max hanging Bats by the cape is good. The goons are fine, but yeah ski masks very 70s.
So he stole the fleece for his daughter who probably wanted a holla Hop . Yep heard that bit from the chipmunks song in my mind. Next story. Ah so that’s what happened to Man Bats detective partner. Well the scar needed to be there probably a lot of folks with Flower allergies.
It’s not Scooby Doo and we can give the villain a revulsion from hearing the word Wisteria sauce. Have to have at least 2 things to go with. Next.
Nice shot of Dick’s legs on the splash page. Cool shot of the Basketball player taking out the bad guy with a basket ball. The villain had to be stopped not just for killing but the crime against fashion with that green suit and orange tie. Is this the return of the color blind villain that Dick and Babs fought a while back?
Ah well glad he got him. Though yeah the villain wasn’t great. Hmm, glad New Teen Titans hit when it did. This was not a good rub for Robin. Next story. Ah Black Lighting what about the suit ? I can’t comment on the green suit since Y’all didn’t put it up. And to many bills right now to go buy the issue on Amazon’s Kendal. So no idea Red and Green sounds a bit Christmasy though. So may not work.
Though weirdly it does some times. Though he doesn’t sound like he was the next. Karl Lagerfeld or anything. Let’s see ah the guy trapped next to And out cold Black Lightning. Nice butt on him. Though that’s an interesting pose. Never seen someone slam into a door with their butt thrust out like hat before. It almost calls for a Gorge Takei “Oh My.”
Wait what Black lightning was an athlete? They talk about that as little as Rob Kelly talks about going to Joe Kubert Art School. Glad hey mentioned B. L. Was an Athlete. Or we wouldn’t have known about it when he threw a hubcap at the bad guy.
Good thing we were told that in this issue. Oy the he lost his powers troop? Wow talk about over done bit in comics ah well glad he got them back in the Outsiders comic. Anyway can’t wait for the next podcast.
Thanks again for inviting me to the podcast, Shawn and Paul. I had a great time, despite the frustration with the audio problems. To think, I was more worried about the dogs barking at something outside and ruining things. They were well behaved, but if I had your sound on speaker, they would have been barking because of the strange voices.
As for this issue’s soundtrack (and a few additional thoughts) —
Batman – “Gold” by John Stewart ft Stevie Nicks
Gordon is the commissioner, but isn’t the police chief named O’Hara? Hopefully not related to the guard in this story.
Tales of Gotham City – “The Rose” by Bette Midler
Robin – “Sweet Georgia Brown”
Martin, as prevalent as it still was at the time, smoking would have made the Man in Black blend in. My high school in Georgia had a “smokers’ tree” on school grounds where the kids who smoked would congregate. I’m not sure if that’s more shocking than a hunting rifle in the gun rack of a pick-up truck in the student parking lot.
Black Lightning – “I Got The Power” by Snap
Batgirl – “Blaze of Glory” by Jon Bon Jovi
Barbara’s not independently wealthy like Bruce, so she needs a job to pay for those Bat-cycles that keep getting trashed.
Oh, one more thing. After recording, my wife asked me to explain again what the podcast was about. I gave her a rundown of the Batman Family title, the merge with Detective, and that the end of the run was approaching. She then asked “so when this is done, are they going to do the Superman Family next?” So, Shawn, if you felt a shiver down your spine that day, that explains it.
Matthew was a great guest! I remember seeing the corner of this cover in a house ad and wondering what was going on with the shattered Batgirl! It was disturbing!
I forgot Denny had one more Bat-story in this era. He should have checked out with the last one. I think he really thought he had another Ra’s Al Ghul with Maxie. Not so much.
The Cormorant story does play a big part in Batgirl’s one-shot from the 80s, right before the publication of (ugh) The Killing Joke. This issue seemed to begin the downfall of Batgirl in many ways. After this, her shaken confidence seemed to be constantly brought up in many of her appearances.
That Untold Legend of the Batman house ad haunted me for years! I couldn’t find it! Luckily Tor put out a black and white paperback a few years later!
I always thought Batman was repelling down that clock tower in the pin-up, myself.
Hey, Bat Cousins, sorry I’m late. I parked my van in the woods, which is a totally normal thing to do, and had to walk a little further than expected. Guess I should have used that very convenient telephone booth to call if I was going to be late.
Great show. Mathew really nailed his first podcast.
As always, Don Newton knocks it out of the park on art. What a great shot of Batman swinging down from the giant tree. Anytime the architectural tribute to 70s decadence that is the Wayne Foundation can be put into a story, I’m game. It’s got a moat on the roof! A moat!
The tales of Gotham story was decent. Brilliant move by Bard disguising himself as Gabe Kapplan to trick his old man. Too bad it didn’t fool anyone. He could’ve used a note from Epstein’s mother.
Oh, these Robin stories. Did Dick say he never would’ve spotted the tall adult man wearing a black suit and fedora walking around a college campus smoking in every building if it weren’t for Batman’s training? Wow. What challenging Bat-lesson came after that one, Dick? Finger painting? And while I’m not the sleuth Robin clearly is, I couldn’t help but notice the basketball court does have any baskets. Talk about school budget cuts!
The real star of the Black Lightning story was the van. I wonder in what wooded area it’s parked?
What a bizarre Hostess ad. Flash is really mailing this one in. Who can blame him? The only thing the Destroyer seems capable of destroying is his digestive system after a table full of Twinkies.
Well, gotta go. Great Aunt Martha just burst into flames because it’s hotter than the surface of Mercury in DC these days!
Another great episode, and yes, I listened twice. In fact, I’m listening to it now and I just realized I forgot to read the previous issue! Zounds! or as Batman would say as written by Bob Haney, BLAZES!!!!!!
Detective 491 was one of the few Batman-related comics I was able to purchase at a small book store in my hometown called Jenkins’ Used Books in the mid to late eighties. I think at the time I got this issue and 494, so despite the fact that I saw Batgirl getting shot to pieces, her floating head was on the cover to 494. I figured out easily that she would survive getting shot.
The Batman story would be my first introduction to Maxie Zeus and started my dislike for that character. The actual story was okay, but I thought a villainous character with a Greek god complex was both annoying and dull. And he wasn’t even the true villain of the story! The Riddler wasn’t either (although he would be two issues later. 44-year old spoilers!) It was a cop who was related or not related to TV’s own Chief O’ Hara. Imagine the scandal that the relative of a Gotham police chief was involved in aiding and abetting a D-list villain! I will say the current storyline of Harley Quinn is giving Maxie Zeus a better backstory and making him more interesting. Probably won’t stick.
I did like the Jason Bard story. I know I didn’t pick up on the grim and melancholic tone of the story as a 10 or 11 year old kid, but now it was a heartbreaking story. I will admit also that I think this was Dan Spiegle’s best artwork. I’d also lean towards his work on Marvel’s Scooby-Doo comic as some of his better work.
The Black Lightning story was good, but I think it would have read better if I had read the previous issue “sigh”. On its own, though, I don’t think it was as strong as the Tony Isabella-written stories from the original series from the 70s.
The Robin story was a fun story when I read it as an adolescent child. Now, reading it as a 47-year old, it felt uninspired and formulaic. This particular story was typical of the tone and feel of many of the tales featuring the Teen Wonder. Writers probably thought “Here’s another Robin assignment. What aspect of college life do I throw in now?” Keeping Robin on the campus of Hudson University seemed to constrain the character and make the stories less appealing in my opinion. No wonder Dick quit college! Maybe that could explain why my copy of the Robin Bronze Age omnibus is still sealed. Hmm…
As a kid, the Batgirl story broke my heart. Like Daphne Blake and Wonder Woman, I had a crush on Batgirl. Seeing her get shot and fall to her death was shocking and I was upset. Even if I already knew she was all right in the story from Detective 494, I was still deeply hurt that Barbara Gordon was shot. Imagine how I would feel when I read the Killing Joke years later. “sob, sob”
Well, I’ve gotta search for a baked spaghetti recipe for 100 people or more for the next reunion. Again, another fun episode and it’s always enjoyable revisiting these issues. Maybe on your next podcast venture, if it’s Batman-related, I could join in on the fun as long as my Internet doesn’t sputter and stop. I kinda hope it’s not a Superman Family show because then I would have to find every issue of that series. “Ugh!” says the wallet. Ha ha!