THE FANTASTIC POUR
Brett welcomes Pop Culture Basement host Mike Jamison to the Fantasti-Lounge for a new edition of the Fantastic Pour! We talk Green Arrow, layer a black and tan, and read Green Arrow #81. Join us in the Fantasti-Lounge as we discuss if Oliver Queen is the John McClane of the DC Universe, the best black and tan spoon usage, watching cable at your aunt’s house, a Philadelphia therapy session, and much, much more!
Secret Pour-igins: Black and Tan
Cocktail: Black and Go Birds
Ingredients (per drink):
- 12oz can of Guiness
- 12oz can or bottle of Yards Pale Ale
- 1 Pint Glass
- 1 metal spoon
Instructions (per drink)
First, pour the Yards Pale Ale directly into the bottom of the glass, this will release enough carbonation to create a little foamy head. Fill the glass halfway. Let it settle for a minute. Then place a spoon rounded-side up inside the glass, with the tip of the spoon pressed against the edge of the glass. Open the Guiness and slowly, carefully pour the stout over the spoon so it fans out over the edges of the spoon. This allows the Guiness to settle on top of the Yards Pale Ale in an even layer, creating a divided black and tan. You can buy a special black and tan spoon, or even bend a regular spoon back so you can fit it inside the glass, but any relatively flat spoon will work.
Comic: Green Arrow vol.2 #81, DC Comics, 1993
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Mike Jamison is the host of Pop Culture Basement
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Frank’s big game speech is from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 13, Episode 9 “The Gang Wins the Big Game“
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As a Bucs fan, I remember that NFC title game fondly! You may have been watching in silence, I was hooping and hollering as Ronde sent the Bucs to the Super Bowl! Great memories! Then to destroy the Raiders in the big game was just poetic justice!
I think I speak for all Eagles fans when I say…BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂
There was a bar in Las Vegas called Mad Dogs and Englishmen that friends and I went to for years (I had a good friend that lived in Vegas and I would visit him frequently). They followed the Irish tradition of “you’re old enough to drink if you can reach the bar” , so it was our favorite place when we were younger. That bar introduced me to Black and Tans and I loved them. I felt very sophisticated drinking them, which is so silly.
You pick an interesting issue of Green Arrow to cover, as it’s the first non-Mike Grell issue of the run. I don’t love the transition from Grell to the new team….however, I did grow to love Conner Hawke when he came along. I really wish they would find a place for him in modern comics.
And as for the opening question: I would absolutely shoot myself in the foot.
Conner Hawke has his good qualities but that awful man-bun hair…
As a Philly native, this episode was full of easter eggs for me–Prism, Kiddie City, etc. I had Mike on POD DYLAN and MASHCast a few times and it was always a good time.
As I have mentioned before, Green Arrow was always one of my favorite superheroes, I just always found him cool. As Mike mentioned, his Mego figure was boss and, unlike a lot of other figures from the time, was an exact replica of the comic book version–hat, arrow, bow, quiver, the whole deal. He must have been a decent seller because they issued a Green Arrow Car toy, which I also had. I wish I had saved those damn things, I could have bought a reasonably sized house by now.
It’s funny, there was always this idea that Green Arrow and Hawkman were liberal vs conservative, even though Katar (to my memory) never espoused any particular views, it was just he was more serious and stiff than Ollie. As you said, if this was done now, I guess Hawkman would be out there trying to talk the rest of the JLA out of getting vaccinated.
Even though I barely understood the Eagles talk, all 47 minutes of it, your dual enthusiasms made it a fun listen. Every time you mentioned Jalen Hurts it sounds like you’re making a value judgment. “What did this Jalen guy do that hurts so much?”
A fine episode from The Fire & Wudder Podcast Network! We should have looked into a one-off sponsorship from Wawa.
Well hear him em and brought a gift .
A Pete rose bubble head for the bar and modern LJN of Jessie the body Ventura . I’ve read some green arrow but not long bow . I’ve heard rumors of marvel publishing a wcw comic does mean the pro wrestler sting would count as comic book charter as would the ultimate warrior as he appears in four comics three of his own and one by valor comics .
A fine episode, gentlemen, although I think you need to check the recording, Brett – that whole section from the start of your third question to your esteemed guest, Mike, until the podcast promos is some sort of incomprehensible gibberish, I could barely make sense of a word. You might want to clean that up… 😛
Also, Count Vertigo is GA’s only rogue of note?! Bite your tongues – Slingshot would like to have a word with you!
More seriously, though, this issue first appeared during my long hiatus from comics, and I’d never even read the earlier Grell material that preceded it. So while I can’t comment too much on the content of the actual comic or its broader context, I can say based on what you’ve posted on your gallery page that I found the art to my liking. Even later, not-at-the-top-of-his-game Aparo is still Aparo, and nonetheless pleasing to the eye. And while I agree that Aparo is best inking his own work, Fernandez acquit himself pretty well I think. On that topic, though, I should note that Sienkiewicz did a really nice job inking Aparo in the Batman: GCPD mini series just a few years later.
I am a bit behind in listening so sorry for late response.
First off, 2 Eagles fans together! I’m surprised you didn’t beat up an innocent bystander? Or share in each other’s misery! #GoPats
Next, I am a big fan of a good Black & Tan. In New England, the drink is usually Guinness and Bass Ale. Ordered many a time here. The first time I learned about the British army connotation was when I watched ‘Shake Hands with the Devil’, a movie in which Jimmy Cagney plays a surgeon who fights for the IRA in college. ‘We have to stop the damned Black and Tans !!!’ I was thinking ‘why is he against that particular drink??’
And ‘Black and Go Birds’? In my house, I call this drink ‘Pats go to Super Bowl’ … in fact that works for all drinks I have at my place.
I did read Longbow Hunters but didn’t stick around for the main title and have never really read the book outside of Annuals that crossed over with the Question, a book I never met. I think most people read this book to see Green Arrow fight ‘real problems’ – drug dealers, scummy bankers, crooked politicians – and the related fall out of those criminals. So I don’t think an Infinity Inc B-lister fighting an Erik Larsen created Doom Patrol villain over a failed romance’ wasn’t the draw. And GA blowing up a gas station?? Nutty.
So I don’t know if you reviewing this issue made me want to seek out this run.
I did enjoy a black and tan though! Been a bit!
Ack – forgot my answers to the questions
Wet Works League – Bronze Tiger, Crimson Avenger, Talia Al Ghul for street level; Black Orchid, Jessie Quick, and time-displaced Shrinking Violet for some super-powered, espionage-y stuff
GA rogues – Black Spider, Night Slayer, Cheshire, Kanto (all assassins … hmmm …), and to add some super-power stuff Silver Banshee. But I cannot tell you how thrilled I was to hear Mark Shaw !!!! YASSSSSS to Event Leviathan – a weakness of mine!
Did either of you read the Denny O Neil/ Mike Grell GL/ GA run? it’s really fun and a little more action oriented than the Adams run. The Grell written run kind of ran out of steam. This Aparo run’s best issue was the one where he fought / teamed up with Catwoman. Oh, and Yes GA had the best Mego Figure.
I’m not the biggest Ollie fan. Conner Hawke is my GA. I have read the O’Neill/Adams “Hard Traveling Heroes” stories and did enjoy the recent Josh Williamson series. Also, I haven’t seen any of the Arrow episodes (except for the crossovers w/ the other DCWU series), but I know that my wife enjoyed them. I’m sure that Stephen Amell doing shirtless pull-ups in most episodes had nothing to do with that.
Still, this was a fun listen, even for someone like me, a fan of one of the Eagles’ divisional rivals. Great job.
Super Captain, “salmon ladder” is the exercise Stephen Amell did that really inspired the most lust and/or envy, depending upon preferences of the audience member. I’m pretty sure that if I had tried it on my fittest day, I would have hurt myself, the equipment, and possibly the floor.
I was only vaguely familiar with this callow youth Mike Jamison before this, mainly due to his MASHCast appearances. Now I’m impressed with the young whippersnapper, despite his characterization of people my age as wizened, doddering exemplars of decrepitude. You two did a great job covering this disappointing comic and the similarly uneven character we all love anyway, Oliver Queen’s Green Arrow. I liked Green Arrow for a lot of years. That’s true even though I knew that during the hard traveling heroes days he probably would’ve looked at my career and judged me a fascist tool. I dropped him hard about twenty-five years ago during Kevin Smith’s run, but repeated viewings of the Justice League Unlimited version have led to a reconciliation. Mike, Cindy, and Chris are all correct. JLU offers peak Ollie Queen.
See, Smith made two bad moves. First, he put Stanley of the old DC kids’ series Stanley and his Monster in the story, and he made Stanley a victim of a bad guy who was so bad that he would’ve been a parody if he weren’t disgusting. I don’t want to list the details of his crimes that I remember, and I don’t want to look them up. Stanley and his Monster were before my time, but I’m sure some people loved those characters and stories. Why would anyone do that to their memories?
But at least that wasn’t Ollie’s fault. After that, Smith had Ollie manipulate stocks to put a major weapons system manufacturer out of business — the kind of company that would compete with Raytheon or Lockheed Martin. Their leadership had done some dirty dealing, so he felt justified putting all their honest employees out of work. He was really smug and self-satisfied about it, too. That might have all been okay, except that by this point, I knew a lot more about how defense contracting worked. “Ollie, you moron,” I thought to myself. “You just made the other powerhouses more powerful.” Those companies have been consolidating since the end of the Cold War. The fewer options the government has, the more the companies dictate the terms of each deal.
After that, I started looking into his back story and saw that he’d done things like cheat on Black Canary, whom we all love and who can also kick his butt. That was really stupid. And then I found out he abandoned Conner as a baby. That would be bad regardless, but I really liked Conner. Anyway, I hope the version that exists now after multiple reboots is more respectable.
Other GA rogues: Merlyn, Shado, Onomatopoeia
Yes, I had to use Google. And spellcheck.
I loved all the Eagles talk, even though I’m a college football guy and wouldn’t care about the Eagles at all if they didn’t keep hiring former Crimson Tide ballplayers. And oh yeah, I love Jalen Hurts! He is a man of great character who is also a great athlete. The black and tan mechanics and history were cool, too, though I haven’t had one in a while. Stouts are so heavy, and my metabolism isn’t what it used to be.
So, sorry this is late, and sorry I haven’t commented in a while, but great episode!
Captain, I apologize if I have slandered you in any way, myself being an ACTUAL example of a wizened, decrepit & doddering old fogey! I am heartened by your admiration for Jalen Hurts, and I think Brett would join me in saying that there is ALWAYS room on the Eagles bandwagon if you’re looking for an NFL team to root for. As for familiarity, I’d humbly ask that you check out the Pop Culture Basement Network (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pop-culture-basement/id1796270822) , where myself and a cast of goofballs wax poetic about movies, TV, comics and all forms of pop culture. As for GA, and this comic in particular, I again thank Brett for indulging me in choosing a lesser known, and of lesser quality, issue. Although the Grell run, and to some extent Hard Traveling Heroes and the Kevin Smith run, are more well known, I’ve always had a soft spot for the underdog (Philly fan, natch) and I think this issue and era are an example of that. Thanks again for listening and thank you for your service!
Mike, there is no need to apologize. I came on a little strong in my giving you a hard time, but I was not offended, and I was only going for laughs. I’m months older than Shag and younger than Rob, so I tease Shag about being too young to understand me and Rob about listening to Roosevelt’s Fireside Chats live. Y’all’s coverage of this issue was a LOT of fun, even though I probably would have been confused and irritated if I’d read it back then. I was in my early twenties. Watching somebody make bad decisions would not have been escapism.
Separate note I forgot to mention above: One of the weird inker pair-ups Jim Aparo had late in his career was with John Cebollero. Their collaboration was in “The Demon Laughs” storyline with Joker and Ra’s al Ghul in Legend of the Dark Knight #142-145. The art is terrific, in my opinion. Aparo’s work is recognizable and still awesome, but fresh and cool at the same time.
It was an honor to serve, thank you. I look forward to checking out the Pop Culture Network!
Great episode as usual Brett. As a South Jersey native who drove over the bridge to work in Philadelphia for over 25 years, a lot of it really hit home and made me smile. Although never an Eagles fan, I have had many periods of watching the Phillies and Sixers regularly. Rob beat me to suggesting a Wawa sponsorship though.
I read the Grell GA run as they came out. I really enjoyed them, being a “hard core” mid-20s fan at that point. And that series of course had the most influence on the Arrow TV show (not including the salmon ladders, lol), at least the first few seasons. I had not read this particular post-Grell comic since then, since the art actually makes me a little sad. I love Jim Aparo’s art, as you know. They had phased him off most Batman projects and gave him this title to keep him working. I think he did OK with it, but just not up to his 70s/80s stuff, and you can really tell he was getting older. I do have a mimeograph (look it up, kids) edition of the Jim Aparo Fan Club Newsletter from September 1993, announcing this issue and including previews of the art. I will try to include scans of it below. The cover is great, I will agree with that.
In terms of a black ops team, I liked Mike’s choices of Hawkman, Adrian Chase, and Katana, but would add Red Hood (instead of Nightwing), the Question (Vic Sage version), and Deathstroke (is he villain or hero).
Thanks for another great show. Great to hear Mike on the network. Mike, you gotta come on DC SpecialCast sometime soon!
Anybody who wants to read this issue of the Jim Aparo newsletter, send me an email at dcspecialcast@gmail.com and I will send the pdf to you.
Paul, I also thought Mike’s black ops team was terrific, and I would endorse your addition of the Question. Deathstroke would be on my target list, not on the team. I would not include Red Hood, or at least not the one I remember from years ago, because he’ll bust through the guardrails and ignore orders. He might be better now, though. Also, you have to have Nightwing, because Vic and Hawkman are too easily dismissed as moral compasses, and you’ll need those voices. Nightwing has credibility.
Came to figure out if you would reference the Black and Tan history in Ireland – Well done for not shying away from it.
Stayed for the Football Talk – we really need to figure out a Football podcast format 🙂
Still here to point out to Dr Anj his “Pats Goes to the Super Bowl Drink” is not as good as a “Black and Go Eagles” due to the Head to Head Super Bowl Record between the two teams – where the Eagles win on points. I know I shouldn’t be throwing stones from my glass walled aquarium for the Dolphins (after all they’ve never won a Superbowl since I was born – or even conceived) but still it’s important to get things on the record (like a taped practice of the Rams before winning your first Super Bowl),
Now where were we… Oh yes Green Arrow. This series effectively missed me completely. As much as I like the idea of GA I don’t recall reading much of his own title until the Kevin Smith Series. I knew about Conner Hawke showing up so I was aware of Oli dying and coming back and the whole Brightest Day run as well. However I think I like GA better in other books rather than his own. But then I suspect thats because I skipped the Grell era as I dont recall those issues being on the shelf where I was getting comics. So your coverage of this issue was enlightening to learn how DC tried to transition Oli away from his own non powered stories and back into the main DC Universe.
It is ironic that in terms of live action hours on a screen that the Temu Batman – Green Arrow has had more live action hours (That includes the original Batman TV Show and Gotham and the movies). Between Smallville and Arrow it’s clear that the thinking on the DC TV Side is “We can’t get Batman but we CAN use Green Arrow in the same sense to fill for him and set him up against a lot of Batman’s villains” I think GA works as an older character to the current crop of heroes. So I would be okay with James Gunn casting either Amell or Hartley now for the DCU.
I’m rambling now so I’ll stop myself and finish with this was a great and entertaining episode and also educational! Thank you both!
I always knew I liked Doug, and it wasn’t just because of the accent…. 🙂 I’m ALWAYS here for the Patriots hate! Cheaters! (In SO many ways!) Thanks Doug!
I still think the NFL handed that Superbowl to the Pats. I’m certain there were 2 seconds left on the clock after that FG and there should have been a kick off. The Rams returner for that season was Yo Murphy (who despite the Irish surname… was not irish) who had played for the Scottish Claymores and he could return a kick off for a TD we’d seem him do it before.
Fun Fact about Yo Murphy – the ONLY Football player who have played in the Grey Cup, Super Bowl and World Bowl. A second fun fact is I believe he is the only Player to play in the XFL, WLAF, NFLE, NFL, CFL (okay technically NFLE and WLAF are the same league) So you can use this in a Football Trivia night.
Anyway that was a great listen Mike you and Brett were great fun.
With the NFL Season upon, I wish good luck to your Dolphins!
I hated Mike Grell’s Green Arrow – he didn’t seem to actually like the character – so was glad to see we were getting him back in the regular superhero pack. Not that this was a great comic, but you can’t have everything.
Golden Age Green Arrow is the best Green Arrow.