The final episode of the Justice League International: Bwah-Ha-Ha Podcast! In this finale, Shag opens up about his 8 1/2 year journey covering these comics, reflects on the entire Keith Giffen & JM DeMatteis era of the Justice League, and then bids a fond farewell!
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This has been the JLI Podcast! Wanna make somethin’ of it?
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As long as I don’t listen to this episode, the Justice League International: Bwah-Ha-Ha Podcast! will never end.
As long as I don’t listen to the last twenty minutes of this episode, the Justice League International: Bwah-Ha-Ha Podcast! will never end.
Oh no! What have I done?!?!?
Thanks for a great series!
What a perfect, heartfelt conclusion to a great podcast. I’ve been listening for about three years now & look forward to lazy Sunday walks in the park while listening to one of Shag’s podcasts, whether it’s Bwa-ha-ha, or Once Upon a Geek, or soon to be JSA in the 90s.
I was born in ‘84 and too young to experience the JLI era firsthand, but the series was still formative to me. I discovered it & Justice League Europe in the mid-90s through the quarter bins at a sports card hobby store at Shoppingtown Mall in Syracuse, NY. My grandmother would take me to the mall every other Saturday. We’d have lunch at TGIFridays before hitting up Waldenbooks, MediaPlay & any other store that stocked geek gold.
Thanks to my grandmother for generously buying me those back issues way back when & thanks to Shag & everyone at Fire and Water for the hours of quality podcasting!!
There’s a Keith Giffen interview in Comics Scene v.2 #6 (1989). Some notables:
Monty Python, Peter Medak’s The Ruling Class, and Joseph Heller’s Catch-22 were listed influences. Giffen wanted nothing to do with back-to-basics Gardner Fox or revamps, choosing to actively pursue a new direction. The idea was to have all of JLI be one big team like the Legion, with various groupings between the books, as well as Gardner Fox-style smaller grouping before everyone combined for the finales. Giffen also wanted as many classic JLAers as he could get, but then he himself kept Aquaman out because he wanted to focus on him as a solo character. They lost Hawkman to Hawkworld, but felt he’d accomplished what they wanted him for (straight man and objector) in the time they had him. Giffen really wanted Hal Jordan to replace him, as well as the Atom, but was presumably denied access. Giffen worked closely with Cary Bates on Captain Atom, and was particularly complimentary of collaborating Bill Loebs on the Flash. Though he never says anything outright, clearly the relationship with Karen Berger and George Perez with Wonder Woman was less chummy. The different tone of JLE was an outgrowth of writing the characters, as oppose to trying to assign someone the role of the JLE’s Blue Beetle, as a for instance (paging Tom King!) Again, he never pitched a comedy– it was just a natural evolution of the characters and building off DeMatteis’ scripts. As I previously speculated, Fire & Ice were added because Maguire wanted babes to draw, and they were the only heroines nobody else wanted. Giffen had no idea of who they were when offered, and made a point of dialing down Green Flame’s crazier powers to make her a somewhat undeserving “fake it until you make it” type. Her personality was based on Iris Chacón. Giffen couldn’t type and hated machines, which is why he drew his stories as Harvey Kurtzmanesque thumbnails. “We’ve got a two-parter that involves Blue Beetle’s futile attempts to kill Maxwell Lord” reminded me that Ted came for the king and missed first, so maybe Max wasn’t as forgive and forget as we thought. When asked why Blue Devil never joined, “You got me. I never announced that he was going to join to begin with! [Laughs.] Maybe he’s in Justice League Antarctica. [Laughs.] They’re heroes no one knows what to do with, going after penguin poachers and trying to free two whales and inadvertently killing them. Those kinds of stories. They have all these other continents to play with. Why not?”
From there it’s L.E.G.I.O.N. ’89 and preparing to replace Levitz on LoSH, for when you start those podcasts.
I am halfway thru the episode and I am already sad. This podcast is special to me.
I was sitting in car at my nearby 7-11 and randomly searched podcasts for anything regrading Justice League International. Yours came up. This was at the beginning of 2022. So… yeah, 6 years late.
I started listening from the start… and then learned of the Who’s Who podcast. I listened to all of each within a few months. Dog walks… long business car trips… whenever.
Then I started commenting on here…
Then you invited me to to be a guest (twice).
Earlier this year, we met for dinner when you were at the Dr. Who conference near LAX.
I met Bill Bere as part of being a member of the podcast community… and now we are doing a podcast.
THANK YOU for all you have done. The JLI podcast is amazing. I will miss it very much, but I am looking forward to your JSA podcasts!!!!
You should be very proud of what you’ve done.
Shagg- you are the gold standard among comic podcast hosts.
Do tell John, what are you and Bill up to?
Congratulations, again, Shag, on the completion of your JLJ mission, and for doing so on your own terms throughout.
In the spirit of reflecting on our experiences with the show, I don’t recall if I even told Shag this after we recorded and later met up at Gallifrey One (an annual tradition these past few years), but at the time I recorded my episode with him (#59, as related on The Intangible Spreadsheet of Mirth), I was wedged right *between* a double-bout of COVID! I’d just recovered from “part one” in time to feel more or less fine while recording, and then found myself suffering a relapse the next morning! (Not Shag’s fault, but apparently a not-entirely-uncommon downside to Paxlovid) I didn’t choose to have the timing work out like that, but I’m glad I was healthy enough to engage the discussion at the time we needed it, and remain honored to have been a part of this series.
Take a bow, my friend
BWAHA-SOB. Great work Shag. Classy end as well. Walk away proud, with your head held high.
Irish embassy reporting for the last time………….now where is Jack O’Lantern going to hang out now?
Congratulations Shagg on an amazing podcast series. In the recent Meanwhile-Who’s Who episode, you played a clip of you reading my comment on a 2015 Who’s Who episode – I had totally forgotten that I had made that comment and it is amazing that within a month from that Who’s Who episode, you had already started pre-production on the JLI podcast, and as you mentioned in this episode, how you had the breakdown of the podcast, like the One Punch, Character Spotlight, Justice Log, etc. The success of the series is totally down to the enthusiasm you have for these stories, and the creative and informative way you had to review the stories.
I also congratulate all of the guests that you had on. Everyone of them contributed greatly to the series and the different insights they provided expanded my own view of the JLI series. You cast a wide net for your guest hosts and it is amazing the number of times that I heard “And joining me for his/her very first podcast as guest host…” on this show – it is great that so many people got their first taste of being on a podcast from this series. (I would have been one of those but Ryan Daly snuck in before our turn to record came around!). Also, for a podcast called Justice League International, the number of international accents heard in the course of the show was very impressive.
For me personally, it was amazing that Shagg invited me to be a guest host for one of the episode. I think when he said what issue I was to do, I drafted the synopsis for the episode straight away, even though it would be 3-4 years before we would get to record, I was that excited to be asked. Coming closer to the time, I was worried how it would go but Shagg set me at ease immediately when recording and it was a brilliant experience and I am happy to be a small part of this show’s great history.
In addition, the show had some of the best commentators of any series. It was great reading the comments after an episode dropped and when the next one came around, Shagg gave a great recap of everyone’s thoughts from the previous episode. Poor Shagg must have been exhausted trying to pare down the comments to the salient points but he did it in a way that was entertaining and fun.
Following on from Shagg’s recollections of the JLI, here are my picks:
Favourite era: Have to agree with Shagg, the JLA Adam Hughes era is my pick, with the initial Justice League (1-7) run a close second.
Favourite Characters: Beetle, Guy, Dmitri and Ice for me.
Favourite supporting characters: Catherine Colbert and L-Ron.
Favourite Unappreciated Duos: Animal Man and Rocket Red (so great but so little time together)
Bwa-ha-ha Award: JLA 45 A Date with Destiny 2 (especially the “Guy Gardner on Ice” moment) and JLE 6 “French Lesson”
Thanks again Shagg for a brilliant series – will look forward to listening to your JSA podcast and still listen to your “Once Upon a Geek” podcasts as they come out. Some people would say after being involved in such a long project like the JLI podcast that they should have a rest but Shagg looks for the next challenge and we as listeners benefit from this.
Now, can I convert the Irish JLI embassy into a JSA embassy? Hmm…….what do you mean I can’t? Wanna make somethin’ of it?
Ending on a classy note, Shag – bravo!
I listened to this podcast so that I wouldn’t have to freak out about elections. So that I could push myself to walk a little more & get in some cardio. I listened to this podcast when it was a hair over 100 degrees, and when it was below freezing. I listened to it with one mellow dog, and later, a second dog with weapons-grade anxiety. I didn’t listen to it with the cats, because they’re cats – they don’t care about the JLI, or you, or me. It sucks, but that’s just how it is. But the whole time, I kept coming back to this show because at its core, it was a labor of love. It’s so damn nice to hear something that isn’t “content,” but that gets across a point of view with sincerity, humor, and a chunk of intelligence.
Like I said? Bravo!
Shag, that was a lovely, surprisingly emotional send-off to a mighty achievement. You should be very proud of yourself. This show has always gone straight to the top of my queue and I’ve loved all 9,000 hours of it. It’s been a pleasure and an honour to have made a small contribution to it, and it’s a privilege to call you a friend. Onwards and upwards sir! The JSA awaits.
For reference:
Favourite era: The first love is always the deepest, so it’s those early Maguire issues (but especially 3–6)
Favourite characters: J’onn, Scott, Barda, Metamorpho
Favourite storylines: Despero, the Extremists
Favourite supporting characters: Catherine & Oberon
Bwa-ha-ha Award: JLI#24 – the Khunds crash the party
P.S. The post-credits stinger was genius.
P.P.S. If you ever decide to cover Giffen/JMD/Maguire’s Defenders, you know where to find me.
I looked through the comments to see if anyone else stuck around for the gag at the very end. Awesome.
For once, I can be a proud member of the two-timers club! Do I get a smoking jacket?
Spelling by meuv:
Favourite era: All of JLI is an era. It does not contain eras. Your butchering of the English language is unabated. My preferences are the first year, then the Invasion! tie-ins, and the Adam Hughes Despero arc.
Least flavoright: Looking back, Manga Khan, Queen Bee, and Mr. Nebula kept me away from the book for long stretches. The overtly silly stuff turned me off, especially the nadir from Wally Tortollini to “Glory Bound.” Conversely, the majority of Justice League Europe was too serious to be carried by that clunky a line-up. I’m just not a Silver Age Second String guy, so Metamorpho, Elongated Man, Animal Man, and Formerly Known As Kid Flash hold no sway over me. Bart Sears is also not really the humorist I needed for that type of material.
Favourite artiste: Kevin Maguire (followed by Mike McKone).
Least flavoright: Chris Wozniak.
Favourite characters: Guy Gardner and J’Onn J’Onzz.
Least flavoright: Booster Gold, General Glory, and more broadly the gooners that only got onto a JL team because it was a silly time. No specific animosity towards them as individual characters, but too many “what are you doing here” lame-os.
Favourite storylines: “A New Beginning,” “The Secret Gospel of Maxwell Lord,” Despero, and Starro.
Least flavoright: Most anything to do with Justice League Quarterly.
Favourite supporting characters: Oberon, L-Ron
Least flavoright: Beefeater.
Bwa-ha-ha Award: I’m not as into single moments as issues taken as a whole, so “Moving Day,” #22-24 (individually,) Justice League America Annuals #2, 4, & 5, “My Dinner With G’Nort” and “A Date With Density!”
I looked up ‘flavoright’, I still don’t understand it! You’re so modern, Frank!
My apologies for the slow response, I’ve been cruising around the various global embassies, but got stuck in the Irish one when G’nort dropped by and caused a potato avalanche…
Shag, old chap, congratulations and thanks for the perfect limited series podcast. The JLI Bwah-Ha-Ha podcast went far beyond your average ‘index show’ with the sheer amount of production you put into it, and your enthusiasm, which always brought out the best in guests. No matter the quality of a particular issue, the show was always a winner. Thank you so much for letting me drop by the embassies a couple of times.
Now, as to those questions…
Favourite era: I’m with Mev, those first few issues before we went international are really special to me, the series felt so different and so fresh. I loved the way the book developed, but I could happily have read another year of the initial team… still, what can you do when characters are ripped away?
Favourite characters: Jonn, Ice, Rocket Red, Bluejay
Favourite storyline: Despero
Favourite supporting characters: Sue and Max
Bwah-Ha-Ha Award: Justice League International #15… hey, I like Manga Khan, but even more, I love L-Ron, and this is where he found his voice. Plus, early amusing work with Fire and Ice, Barda at her best and lots, lots more.
I really appreciated your defence of Linda Medley’s art, both here and previously – no artist deserves a pile on. I’ve not loved the work of every artist on JLI, but so long as they were doing their best, leave ‘em alone, fanboys! And they all helped build a legend.
Long Live the League!
Wow the end of the road. Trying not to sing that song. Still this was a great podcast about a great comic. I’m gonna miss hearing it. Still, I will definitely listen to the JSA a one. I have …. Just haven’t left a comment on the last one got side tracked. Anyway, was great hearing about this great run.
Say did the JSA one start because of that episode Shagg and Rob did on that death of Mr. Terrific issue? Hmmm, that makes sense.
Anyway now I won’t get my dose of Fire and her Amazing friends talk noooooo! Ah well was good while it lasted.
The end of an era! Well done, Shagg. Mad props to you for the hard work and persistence you put into this podcast. It was heartwarming to hear what the podcast meant to you and all the folks you are grateful for.
I only starting listening to podcasts in 2020 when I was isolated at home during the pandemic and was delighted to discover a podcast that was doing such a great job covering one of my favorite comic book series of all time.
I appreciate this podcast being thoughtful, fun, funny, informative, and above all, positive. In an ocean of podcasts that endlessly snark, whine, nitpick, and tell stupid jokes about pop culture, this podcast was always a joy to listen to and a welcome island of positivity.
Shagg, I am so thankful you had me on as a guest, not only was the experience a blast, it’s led to me guesting in several other podcasts. I’ve discovered a little side hobby and it’s been a fun outlet. You also never stopped plugging my books whenever you mentioned me and I am grateful for your generosity.
My favorite era is probably the Adam Hughes era. That’s right where I started collecting the series and what a fun series of stories. Despero, Wally Tortellini, KooeyKooeyKooey, the cat attacking the embassy, just great stuff. Other favorites include Moving Day, JLAntarctica, the embassy tour annual, JLE 1-12 or so which had one of my favorite first issues, French class, the Metamorpho two-parter. Awesome classic fun comics I will probably reread every few years til I die.
This series is still being talked about 30+ years later, how many others can claim that? Definitely gives credence to the fact there’s room for “comic” in comic books. Gee, who woulda thought?
Thanks for everything, Shagg and everyone I’ve interacted with as result of this podcast. Looking forward to the JSA!