Our coverage continues of JSA in the 90s with Sean Ross and The Irredeemable Shag discussing JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA #2 (Sept 1992) by Len Strazewski, Mike Parobeck, and Mike Machlan! Wildcat and The Atom are welcomed back to the JSA as the team asks what is the JSA’s purpose nowadays, and then they find themselves in a confrontation with UltraGen! Plus, we wrap up with YOUR listener feedback!
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Well, Al IS rocking the dad moustache. Or better said , the Daddy moustache in gay culture terms. And he has that attitude towards Ted, but I’m not feeling the something else vibes there. That said, I might have read some… Adult fan-fiction style narrations about similar men. I will not develop that idea more in a family friendly site.
Mike Parobeck Sandman. Now I cannot get that idea out of my head.
Heyo,
First time commenting on the website. Love your shows. Finished JLI and started the JSA one. So “JSA Versus The Nazis Again” needs to the title of a storyarc or something, involving a time looping trap where they have to just keep fighting the same Nazis, maybe even Captain Nazi and other super Nazis. Of course the JSA would win. On the outside of the time trap have someone who doesn’t know a lot about time travel have to unravel the mystery of why maybe they can’t enter the brownstone. I mean it wouldn’t have to be that, but that phrase “JSA Versus The Nazis Again” just sounds great. I know you all don’t have influence over what DC does or anything like that but that is what stuck out most to me from the podcast. Which Hawkman was this in the JSA at the time during this book? Was this when there were two still or post zero-hour? It has been forever since I have read things from that era, maybe even not since that era it self. Thanks for the podcast 🙂
Hi Dustin! Welcome to the fight for justice!
In JSA #2’s month of publication, the Hawkworld ongoing series was on issue #27 (https://www.mikesamazingworld.com/main/features/newsstand.php?type=calendar&month=8&year=1992). So yes, there’s 2 Hawkmen with Golden Age Carter’s return to the Earth with the JSA in this series. I believe Hawkworld originated the idea of Carter joining the JLA repeated in JSA #2, and it was about 5 months ago that Hawkworld revealed that a Thanagarian spy pretended to be Carter’s son to be the Hawkman that appeared between the JSA going to limbo, and the new Katar debuted in the prestige Hawkworld mini. And that’s not confusing at all! But back to it, yes, there’s 2 Hawkmen and it doesn’t last long since Zero Hour is a year-plus away.
HTH
Thanks for the reply 🙂 I couldn’t remember exactly who was who at this time, it all blurs together with my crap memory sometimes hah. I will need to go back and read etc. I really wish post Crisis continuity was planned out a bit better. Then Hawkman issues wouldn’t have happened. As you said they had to use Carter’s son as Hawkman etc. Also I am not even sure if they ever touched on too much the JSA/JLA crossovers in the new post Crisis continuity. At times there were two Hawkmen involved, not to mention Wonder Woman involved.
I know this is rambling sounding. We know from JLA: Year One, Black Canary replaced Wonder Woman on the JLA, and from DC’s offices and Young All-Stars Golden Age (Earth-2) Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman also had replacements, Flying Fox, Arn Munro, Fury, and so on and so forth. In the case of Hawkman, would it had been Carter and Carter’s son as the two Hawkmen or was there just only one Hawkman during the new post-COIE versions of those crossovers?
I know no one really has all the answers. It sucks that DC didn’t really 100% plan it out well and then repeated this same mistake again post Zero-Hour and then again post New52…
My favorite Legacy character is Wally West, though he became the Flash in the 1980s. Also a fan of Kyle Rayner, Jack Knight and (I know I’m in the minority here) Black Condor II (Ryan Kendall) who had a short-lived series in the 1990s, was briefly in the JLA and was killed during Infinite Crisis.
Another great episode. I’m really enjoying reading again about heroes who are (hopefully) older than we are. I’m still recovering from the day I realized I was older that Superman and Batman’s apparent ages.
It took me a long time to understand the comments about the Atom’s new costume. It looked so familiar, until I realized it’s a really well designed mashup of his original (full mask) and later (red crescent) versions. A retro update that just works.
Another important note is Atom no longer has a cape. Honestly, that’s a great improvement on his look.
I think the Super Friends Invented video calls in the 70s because they were having zooms with all sorts of officials and interplanetary heads and even the Legion of Doom!
Oh wait, no! My bad!
They had Video calls on Star Trek in the 60’s (although THAT was set in the far future and the Super Friends wasn’t considered part of the new (semi) rigid continuity of the time…. Ugh my head hurts! I guess the DCU had video calls as a general thing long before real life technology caught up to it.
Oh btw my absolute favorite Legacy hero is of course Wally West as the Flash. Followed closely by (in order)
Tim Drake Robin
Kyle Rayner Green Lantern
Connor Hawks Green Arrow
And finally Dock Grayson as Batman
Wow, favorite 90’s legacy hero. That’s a tough one. I’m going to limit myself to a character that was introduced in the 90’s, which eliminates Wally West (1986) and Tim Drake (1989) right off the bat (no pun intended). Kyle Rayner is certainly up there, but I think I would have to say John Henry Irons edges him out. Steel takes the legacy of Superman and goes more towards Iron Man but still upholding the ideals of the original.
Shag and Sean sounds like a radio morning show team, but it works. After a little thought, my two favorite legacy characters from the ’90s would be Connor Hawke as Green Arrow and Courtney Whitmore. Courtney is just eligible having debuted in 1999. I really love Wally, whether written by Messner-Loebs, Waid, or Johns, but as others have pointed out, he debuted way before 90s overall and even became The Flash right after Crisis. So he is ineligible IMO. I like Tim Drake too. Thanks again for the entertaining podcast.
Great discussion guys. I remember being a little surprised to see Al was mostly bald, had a mustache, and was the grouchy one in the Ted/Al combo here. I remember Al having a pretty good head of strawberry blonde hair, but who knows what eons in Ragnarok can do to you? Either way, once I got past that, I liked that Al looked like someone’s old “back in my day” uncle. I also liked his redesign leaning into his original costume that was re-popularized in All-Star Squadron.
I think this is the first time Carter wasn’t the team leader of the JSA! That’s one helluva long run! But now, retroactively, I think a lot due to Robinson’s Golden Age, we tend to think of Alan as “the big guy” with the absence of the Earth-Two Superman, and therefore him being the leader just makes sense.
I wasn’t sure who the mystery stranger was at the end of this issue, but I for one was thrilled with the reveal.
Favorite legacy hero of the 90s hands down is Jack Knight. And sorry to all the podcast listeners for Cindy and I dropping the ball on keeping up with our long abandonned Starman Chronicles series which was supposed to migrate from Super Mates to here at JS Presents. But yes, Starman is NOT an easy show to podcast about. It’s so dense it takes a ton of work just to get through a single issue and break it down. Much easier to talk about animated Justice League adventures I also love!
I’m still mid-listen, but let’s do some early voting:
Old warriors trying to mentor
the next generations, and they get caught up in the fight all over again?
Nahhh. Doesn’t resonate at all. 😉
Favorite nineties legacy hero? Hard to say. Always loved Tim Drake, but as Gene Gene the Podcasting Machine pointed out, he debuted in ’89. Also as Gene pointed out, John Henry Irons is awesome. But Connor Hawke had that great story when he was joining the Morrison JLA and had to go up against The Key solo with trick arrows! Let’s call it a tie between Steel and the junior Green Arrow.
Great work, Shag and Sean! And welcome, Dustin! I’d answer your questions, but I’m pretty sure I’d get them wrong.
Fave legacy hERO Hal Jordan, tied with Ray Palmer
2 The Tim Drake Robin but is THAT a hero? That’s a Robin!
3 also I HAD no idea Al was “tank-punch strong I thought he was “Batman says urk stong
I love the Shag/Sean podcasting combo, so this episode went down nice and easy.
I was surprised at how curmudgeonly Al was, especially since you think that would be Ted. Goes to show how characterizations change over time. It does make me wish Ted and Al had opened that gym together, as it certainly would have lent a different dynamic to hero training. Well, I guess that could still happen within this series (I don’t remember from 30+ years ago), but I was thinking long term.
Speaking of not remembering, I have a guess who the mystery person might be, but I’m not sure. Looking forward to the next issue to find out and then the next episode talking about it.
Okay, let’s talk 90s DC legacy characters. I get why you would put Wally in this category and the Mark Waid run is certainly what cemented him as an all-timer. I became a fan in the 80s, though, thanks to New Teen Titans and then his early run as Flash (I was 16 when that series started, so was the perfect age). With that out of the way, I want to give Connor Hawke an honorable mention. That JLA issue with him is fantastic and the fact he was drawn by Jim Aparo doesn’t hurt. However, my favorite legacy DC hero is Jack Knight. Starman was my favorite comic of the 90s and there were a lot of great DC comics during that decade.
Question prof . Shag (I feel some where some in England thinks some American made an Austin powers joke .) how power full is the golden age Adam did we ever get a measure of strength?
cause he may have to hold back when dealing with Nomal thugs . And in some stories the give wild cat super strength or beefed up strenght i know i the episode of I want JLU bell of the bawl the hinted that he might have some kind of enhanced strength, cause I don’t think son of his age to be able to punch a dent that big in a locker.
Impressive podcast most impressive. Ah the JSA. I liked the Johns run missed this one e, but the art style reminds me of the Impact comics from the Archie slash DC run. Cool to see them all having different opinions of coming back to Super Hero stuff. Nope sorry don’t see Wild Cat and Adam as a couple. Adam is just Ted’s gay friend.
I think Roy was leaning into The an Adam being gay not sure. Granted even though I’m a bi Trans woman I have no gaydar. Some how it didn’t install so I could be wrong. Ted wanting to teach the kid to box was cool. Over all nice getting the band together story.
Ah Hawk Man with a shirt. Impressed. But not sure how I will miss the hot Shirt less Man action. lol. The average troops villains were ok still wonder who was in the chair was it Johnny Thunder? One can only hope. Can’t wait for the next episode.
Another fun episode. Wally West was one of my favorite legacy heroes. Maybe he’s been around since the 1960s, but he really hit his stride in the 90s. Also, can’t forget Courtney Whitmore, a legacy hero who got her own TV series.
I wonder if Al’s stand-off with the tank was inspired by a real world instance a few years before in Tiananmen Square.
Wow! Sean is killing it at the Fire & Water Network. His amazing first 2 episodes of Peace Bound & Down, now here, and I think he’s guested on another show or two. It’s like Sean is a network All-Star. Great job, Sean and Shagg!
This is my favorite version of Al/Atom’s costume. The full length pants, full face mask, and *no* cape, it works for me. And his characterization in this series is excellent. All of the heroes are wondering if getting back into action is a good idea, but Al being the contrary voice makes him stand out, because he cares about his friends. Yes, he says “I want to be dignified”, but I’m getting the vibe of him feeling protective of the whole group. That point is driven home by having him stop the tank single-atomic-handedly. Oh so good. And did anybody else get a “Golden Age Superman” feeling from that splash page?
But I haven’t forgotten Ted/Wildcat. I’d say this series cements his character that carries thru to today. I could be wrong, and we’ll see if that holds when Shagg gets to the following series. So much JSA goodness to come!
Little note: Alan’s baldness was revealed in Infinity Inc Annual #1, you know, the one where we learn Jade and Obsidian’s parentage. Near the end of that issue, Alan confesses that he’s been wearing a toupee! Maybe being in the television industry made him self-conscious. I only know that because I recently re-read that annual for … reasons. (insert devious laugh here)
The costume changes for Atom and Hawkman highlight how stinking great Parobeck was. He’s already a great storyteller, but he has an amazing flair for costume design, keeping classic iconic elements, but revisions that make them fresh and feel like respectful improvements. I just love this so much.
Well, I’m going to tie an onion to my belt and yell at some clouds. See you next JS-Time!
Thanks for the kind words, Tim! I am still freaking out a little bit about being on the network. Imposter syndrome powers activate!
Sean, I just realized I listened to this JSA episode and then your first two WW episodes back to back to back. Definitely killing it!
Excellent episode as usual!
The whole Ted and Al thing is a reminder of how that until recently we were so starved of gay representation that any close friendship were grasped upon as a couple. At least we have Alan now, who has, to me, always been gay having come to the character through his Earth 2 counterpart!
I really dig The Atom’s new costume. It has elements of his previous suit, with a bit of Cyclotron thrown in. Interestingly enough it kind of informs how what Atom Smasher and Damage would wear down the line. That whole subsection of heroes can be tied together with this suit.
The house ad for Justice Society of America is so good, I don’t know why they chose that lame FF #1 cover riff for the debut issue. Made it instantly forgettable.
Getting entirely shown up by Superman and having a team member stroke out is probably not how you reintroduce a super-team in the ’90s. Bold? Yes. Commercial suicide? Also yes.
Parobeck hasn’t quite hit his stride. He looks good here, but a little too much detailing. His full animation style is the best. I do like that Paul Smith quality to the Jesse Quick stuff, though.
Has anybody ever used Edisonville again? It’s only ten miles out from Keystone.
Alan Scott has a real flair for fashion here. Not to stereotype, but maybe we missed some signs?
Why couldn’t the 25th anniversary Underworld Unleashed trade just have the plain neon-ish green hues for Neron energy seen on newsprint here for Green Lantern’s energy. I’m still super ticked that DC thought it was okay to ship that book uncolored.
The banter is painful. I wish they talked more old timey, calling people cads or skinflints or whatever. Jay Garrick doing a Kevin McCallister while Alan drops the shades meme makes me want to vomit Neron green.
The Entertainment This Month ad with Kubert X-Men, Biz Lobo, and Shadowhawk really highlights the distance between JSA and the 1992 marketplace.
Why does Ted Grant look like Billy Batson? Ted just isn’t grizzled enough for me here, but I like the look of Al Pratt, even if he’s a wet blanket. See, I can talk old-timey too. It’s funny because Ultrgen keeps calling them “geezers,” and that’s a more dated term than any the JSA utter. I will say that this particular set of costumes on a slimmed down quartet team look sharp, though Ted and Al kind of disappear from a (better) cover where they’re foregrounded because Jay and Alan have all the color. It just helps to lose eyesores like Hourman, Starman, and Sandman. Sure do miss Dr. Fate though, and he’d be twinsies with Atom.
I’m trying to remember the timeline. It was the Hawkworld ongoing that established Carter & Shiera as being more or less the Silver Age Hawks, with Fel Andar and Sharon Parker only serving in the JLI, right? That feels more right in this context, where the JSA are written and drawn in a Silver Age style. But it’s also why this book doesn’t click for me, because I hated the Silver Age of Comics, especially at DC. Everything was so sanitized, where much of the Golden Age was looser, kinkier, and weirder. I just prefer the JSAers having discreet affairs, killing in wartime, and all the other stuff the goody-goody JLAers couldn’t get up to. And this JSA drinks their Ovaltine and are careful not to tear their adult diapers. It’s corny and a snooze, whining like X-Men about their arthritis instead of about prejudice. Also, this is the second straight issue of JSAers making a case for why there shouldn’t be a JSA– at least not one made up of AARP members. I’ve always agreed, preferring it to be multi-generational like, you know, a society. And while I’m at it, #JSAsoWhite.
It looks like Alan got shot with a cork, but as described it was more like a splinter. Where’s Giles when you need him? Get these villains a legitimate stake!
The 60s look a lot different half-again on. Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Wesley Snipes, Keanu Reeves, Eddie Murphy, Antonio Banderas, Nicolas Cage, John Leguizamo, Johnny Depp, Djimon Hounsou, and Rob Lowe are all in their 60s, and I wouldn’t bet on myself against any of them.
The last page reveal of some guy watching TV in the JSA mausoleum isn’t exactly a nail-biter. Don’t recall who it is. Considering the time period and nature of this podcast, it would have been funny for it to be Maxwell Lord having been pushed out of Superman’s JLI and looking to co-finance another super team.
Okay, caught up with everything but the actual podcast that I’m commenting on…
Great second episode. Wonderful duo. Fun listen.
Throwing my two cents into the “what I would like to see for a JSA book today…” discussion that started last comments page/episode…..
Give me a WW2 JSA book please. Think All Star Squadron- ie, using a modern take on the writing (ie, 2024), but taking place in the 1940s.
Give me the JSA in their prime. But give me storytelling from today. Especially with the modern takes we have on these characters (I’m looking at you Alan Scott and the reincarnations of Carter Hall)
I suppose if that’s not large enough in scope you could do the All Stars. But I feel like that’s too big. But that got me thinking – All Star Squadron is Justice Society Unlimited isn’t it?
I would like to add my voice to Sean’s in recommending that Alan Scott: Green Lantern series. It is so good. I loved the Flash and Sandman books (the Sandman one read like a new version of Sandman Mystery Theater, only more super heroic) but the GL series was definitely the best. The way Alan’s sexuality was explored was handled so well and the whole thing with the Red Lantern was just great. Red Lantern is one of those “should have had a V-8” moments in terms of giving Alan a Sinestro type villain but the twist made it so much more heart breaking.
I also agree that the delays with the newer Johns JSA series. So frustrating.
Great episode. Always nice to hear from Sean and I apologize for my part in making the first episode was so long. If it makes anyone feel better, there are early episodes of Views that Shag and I did that are so long we’re still recording them.