Season 7, Episode 24: Ain’t Love Grand
Special Guest Star: Molly G
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Don’t even know where to start with everything I loved in this discussion, I mean wow. I know I’m unbelievably biased as usual whenever a comrade in mashblr makes an appearance on this wonderful show, and even more so this week (mollysails I hope you read this and I hope you know I think you’re a genius) but the discussion about mashblr and queer coding in mash genuinely brought a TEAR to my EYE. How deeply deeply I love the community that’s been built there, and the way a show made in ostensibly two different time periods can be experienced now in a third in this specific way that speaks so clearly to people who are listening for it, sometimes almost can’t HELP but hear it. Because how can you not bring your own life to these characters who we feel so close to and connect to on such a human level! My friends in the tv… these layers, even though they aren’t even needed to make the show good (few such cases, believe me), add so much colour and flavour and joy and sadness and tragedy and sparkle and flair and zazz to so many aspects of mash. And when Molly mentioned how FUN it is too I PUNCHED the air and said YEAH! The FUN and the humour and the camaraderie that comes from this shared vision, all of us knowing it can get ridiculous and silly sometimes (room 237 is not far off, there’s an iceberg here and it goes so so deep) but just having so much fun holding these characters up to the light and seeing what shines through. And a massive kudos to Rob for being so consistently open-minded and enthusiastic about it, right from the very first day when you joined us on mashblr!
But okay, the actual episode, right. I’m also a fan of the secondary characters taking the reins while BJ and Hawk go be silly elsewhere and the added fun of them being the third couple and their stupid little spat is so great. Another example of BJ getting all in his head about his patient is next week’s episode The Party! Again taking that angst and funneling it out into something else. I also just adore Sooni and her total disinterest in ceding any ground to Charles at all and his frustration and disbelief at her is so hilariously played. Until it’s incredibly sad and depressing and stabs you right in the heart. I LOVE THIS SHOW.
What a hoot hearing from director Mike Farrell too!!! I was always so impressed with the brilliant minute-long shot right at the very beginning of the episode, so much movement around the swamp, pushing in and out as Hawk climbs on the furniture and Charles backs them both into a corner. All in one long take!! It’s downright speilbergian, im telling you.
Can’t believe the season’s almost over, wowwww but at least we have the potential mashblr summer special to look forward to! 😉 😉 😉
This was so interesting, I loved hearing about another lens to view MASH from! I read a lot of fanfics, and so many stories have queer versions of the MASH-characters. I always think that these writers are able to pick up on things that I don’t, and I just love that, how we interpret the things we watch or read or hear based on who we are, our experiences and where we are in life. It’s just amazing how different eyes pick up different things.
Also – MASH tumblr seems like such a fun place, can anyone just join?
This was also so interesting for me personally, because I’m aroace, and I tend to read Charles as ace too… The women we see him have a thing for on the show (Margaret, Lorraine, Martine, the maid back home with the devilish personality, the woman he “marries” – what is her name??? and Sooni in this episode” 😉 😀 ), they all seem to be kind of “wild” women, women who knows what they want, passionate, spirited, outgoing. In my mind, Charles is more than anything attracted to their spirit, they represent a type of person that he maybe wishes he could be, but can’t because he is a Winchester and has all of these expectations on his shoulders. He has to be a sexual creature, because he doesn’t know anything else. A Winchester is supposed to continue the family tradition, have an important job, marry, and carry on the bloodline. But if Charles would have dug deep and really asked himself what he wants in life, maybe that is actually not the life he truly wants. But I don’t think he ever allowed himself to dig that deep.
In this episode, I can sort of understand why he would buy himself company if I watch it from this point of view. He feels lonely – a lonely man needs a woman, he has been told all his life – so he takes the opportunity when presented to him. Whith the values of the time, it’s “normal”. He knows deep down that it’s wrong, so he tries and turn the girl he bought into a project of his, he has to make her fit into the cleaned up version of herself, a woman worthy of what a Winchester is supposed to want. All of this doesn’t make his behaviour okay, of course – he still bought her services – but it is a more interesting way to look at it for me personally.
For me, the biggest problem Ain’t Love Grand is a lack of time, and that especially hurts Klingers storyline. If I am to believe that he wants to build a life with this nurse back home, I need something more than they meet, and in the next scene he is planning a whole future for them back home. Quite selfish of him too to just expect her to fit into his dreams, but I also find it endearing that he has this longing for a family and just a regular life back home. Like Charles, he tries to make her something she’s not, make her his future really, and it’s a nice insight to his character that he really needs this, but it just plays out way too quickly.
I also feel like Charles’ loneliness needed to have been much more introduced to us, if I am to believe that he would go off and buy himself some company, I need to feel his loneliness like a black hole inside of him.
I like Hawkeye’s and BJ’s storyline. That they are both so obsessive and stubborn people shines through in a lot of episodes, and I always find it interesting.
I can’t stand people being gross around food, so eating with Hawkeye would be a challenge. BJ is absolutely right, stop sniffing! And close your mouth when you chew, and don’t talk with food in your mouth, for crying out loud. 🙂
Also, speaking of the lens you watch the show through, as I mentioned in the Cave-comments, I am super sensitive to noise. And when BJ and Hawkeye make up and hug (a lot :)), they are so very loud! Guys, it’s late, people are sleeping and you’re in a flimsy tent, keep it down. But it is so true to character that they would be so loud. If they fight, everyone knows it, and if they make up, everyone will know it too. They are so used to being the cool guys, the pranksters, used to people just adapting to them.
And this leads me into the way BJ dress, I think it is part of this persona he has by now. He has come a long way from the clean shaved man we once met. It’s in the way he carries himself too, the way he sits, like he is one of the “bad boys” in the classroom who just has to throw their feet up on the desk. This paired with his anger, his will to pitch people against each other, not take responsibility – I think his clothing is like a costume to him. He is nice guy BJ with the big grin, the goofy mustache and the fun suspenders, he can get away with things other’s couldn’t, and I think he likes to take advantage of this.
This episode also has a nice little insight to Margaret’s character, how she is really into the bingo-game. She just dives head first into anything and cares so much, whether it’s her job, her career, her lovelife, the MASH Olympics or a game of bingo, she is all in. She cares so much about everything, and that makes me as a viewer care too.
I completely agree – the writers should have given her and Potter more scenes together, they have such a sweet relationship. Good thing fanfiction exists, though, because there are so many stories out there where the writers have created some great moments for the two of them. And some horrible ones… In some dark corner of the World Wide Web I found a story that was a retelling of Comrades in Arms. You know how Margaret and Hawkeye hook up? Yeah, in this story the same thing happened, but it wasn’t Margaret and Hawkeye, oh no. It was Margaret and – you guessed it – Colonel Potter. Nooooo, my brain cried, and has honestly not been the same since. And now, like the trauma-demon in the movie Smile, I have passed on this horrible image to you. You are welcome. 🙂
Ans speaking of Margaret – Molly said she hasn’t seen “Operation Noselift”, and honestly – that is one of two episodes I would not recommend anyone to watch because of what happens to Margaret, “Bananas, Crackers and Nuts” being the other one. I can’t stand the sexual assault played for laughs. I can’t stand that these writers sat down and thought “oh yes, I’m gonna inflict some sexual trauma on the one prominent female character on the show, what a great source of comedy”.
Again, we all watch the show through different lenses and with different experiences, and sadly I know these situations are not to be laughed at, it’s horrible. But even without my experiences, I would have understood that, and the lack of understanding and empathy from these writers just taints everything else about these episodes. It’s a shame, I hate that it happens on my favorite show.
But to end on a happier note, I met a dog today! That is always good news, I love dogs, but guess what this one was called? Hot Lips! What are the odds??? The owner was not a MASH-fan, though – I of course asked – the dog was already called that when they got her, and they usually called her “Hottan” instead. She was so sweet, big and black and cuddly, and we’re besties now 🙂
Thank you for this wonderful episode, I truly enjoyed it!
To your MASHblr question, yes anyone can partake at any time! It’s not a closed community at all. Just start browsing the #mash hashtag on tumblr (you can sort it either chronologically or by most popular posts) and you’ll find many people with a wide range of different takes on the show & the characters, most of them LGBTQ-centric. Ace Charles is a dearly beloved headcanon for a lot of folks on there if it sounds like fun please feel welcome to come and play! Some people use the #mashposting hashtag as well, or you can search by character name in the tags, whatever you’re looking for!
(Of course, even within mashblr circles you’re going to run into interpretations you completely disagree with, but for the most part these days fans are very good about ignoring/blocking the headcanons they don’t jive with and focus on celebrating the ones that do bring them joy )
Is Ace-Charles really a thing among others too, I love that! Thank you so much for your kind and sweet answer, I will definitely check MASHblr out, it sounds great!
Your comment about Margaret’s storylines earlier in the show, especially in “Operation Noselift” are even more unpleasant when compared to her anxieties in “Bug Out!” when in the camp with only Hawkeye and Radar. She is terrified of being assaulted by the oncoming Chinese soldiers. The difference between season 2 and season 5 in that way is another piece of evidence that season 4 and after were a completely different show, for the better.
I remember this episode from frequent reruns. I’m pretty sure the entire Sooni-Charles scene in the mess tent (“THIS is how you hold a fork!”) was removed in syndication.
Room 4077 featuring your MASHblr correspondents? PLEASE MAKE THIS SHOW HAPPEN.
In other news, this old man has to learn a new (old) social media platform. Dangit!
Also, for the record, Sooni has always been one of my favorite guest characters. Go rhyme yourself!
Molly really brought fantastic insight to the show, and the conversation was riveting. Loved every minute.
I’m trying to remember if other romantic stories have happened with Klinger, and I don’t think so. He’s been shown on dates in the Officer’s club and Rosie’s and movie night, but not a full romance. So it makes sense that we’ve never seen how Klinger actually feels about relationships. Considering he’s been part of the camp since the beginning, it’s natural to assume he’d be more casual like Hawkeye and the pre-Potter/BJ crew. So it’s actually refreshing to have it revealed that no, Klinger doesn’t want one night stands. That’s actually a big deal in the continuity of MASH, and handled in a wonderful way.
I look forward to Room 4077 or MASHblrCast coming soon!
As I’m rewatching these later episodes and listening to the podcast, I’m appreciating Winchester’s development and David Ogden Stiers’ embodiment of the character. Despite his rich, pompous and sometimes bigoted character, Charles is far more human that Frank Burns ever was, and I wonder what Charles was like after the war (ahem… police action) was over. How much did his emotional growth carry over on returning to Boston and being the type of leading surgeon he always wished to be?
We’ve seen Hawkeye and BJ become far more cynical and angry (and in the case of Hawkeye, broken). Charles always had the edge of a talented, intelligent and entitled doctor, without the empathy the other doctors had in spades. Did his parents and Honoria recognize him after the fact? Did he seek out more empathetic partners rather than marrying into the Boston Brahmin aristocracy? My head canon is going overdrive thinking about it.
Once again, amazing show and amazing guest!
So, my not-so-popular take on this episode …. It is probably my least favourite, not only for this season, but perhaps over the entire series! The whole thing, almost from beginning to end, frustrates the heck out of me. It actually makes me feel slightly uncomfortable for some reason. The implausibility of Charles’s storyline, to Klinger deciding to be married with kids with a woman who is not interested, to BJ and Hawkeye bickering the whole episode, ugh I dislike this episode so much. But I guess MASH is like food or music, everyone has differing tastes and opinions. I need a good ‘Alcoholics Unanimous’ to get my system back on track 🙂
I can’t help thinking that all three of the relationships shown in this episode highlight a common (IMO) occurrence in many relationships. We are often attracted to that which is different from us in other people (e.g., a quiet person being drawn to someone who is more outgoing). But, then we turn around and (often subconsciously) try to change that person to make them more like ourselves, thus trying to change those characteristics that first drew us to them.
In this case, Charles tries to change the pragmatic and down-to-earth Sooni into a sophisticated socialite. Klinger wants the free-spirited live-for-the-moment Debbie to become his partner in a long-term committed relationship. Finally, it’s their little differences that bring Hawkeye and BJ into conflict with each other. It’s interesting that only the Hawkeye and BJ’s relationship is able to weather the storm. In celebrating the recovery of BJ’s patient, they seem to remind themselves why they like each other so much. At least, that’s my take on it.
Thanks for another excellent episode.
P.S. I also cast my vote for a special mashblr episode.
“It’s interesting that only the Hawkeye and BJ’s relationship is able to weather the storm.” Yes!! I get a huge kick out of Hawkeye and BJ being the last couple standing at the end of an episode called Ain’t Love Grand. Hugo’s Law of complementary colors strikes again.
Klinger suddenly deciding to want to marry a woman he just met was a bit much. We didn’t get too deep in their relationship so we don’t know what happened.
I think they tried to do too much here. The storyline with Hawkeye and BJ was big enough to warrant its own episode and not relegated to a C plot.
I seem to recall Margaret being listed as Hot Lips in TV Guide most of the series.