Season 8, Episode 9: Mr. and Mrs. Who?
Special Guest Star: Victoria Marino
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Tremendous episode and great discussion. A couple of comments.
Blotto drunk – there were plenty of inebriated nights in college but one night I did basically ‘black out’ and have no memory. This night has made tequila a non-starter for me. My mind recognizes that smell with the sheer amount of vomiting I did the following morning. And my friends, being the friends they are, walked me around the dorm apartment building we lived in, knocking on the door and saying ‘you will never see Anj this drunk again, please witness’. With friends like these ..
Charles’ game – “Come live with me and be my love, And we will all the pleasures prove” is the opening line to Marlowe’s ‘The Passionate Shepherd to his Love’. God, it sounds like something I would do, perhaps explaining the sheer numbers of swings and misses I had in my lovelife.
Hemorrhagic fever – Kudos to Victoria for her explanation on therapy! And thanks for caring for animals!
I am not a kidney speciaist and I am hoping my colleague Dr. Lewis will weigh in if this simple ER doctor messes up fluid homeostasis. The kidney filters out toxins and keeps your electrolytes in equilibrium, re-absorbing the stuff it needs and excreting the things it has to in the form of urine. In kidney failure, your kidney can’t process things leading to decreased urine output to no urine output (remember the soldier says ‘first I couldn’t go at all’). If your kidney can’t make urine and you keep giving IV fluids, the excess fluids leaks out of your blood vessels leading to fluid filled lungs, abdominal cavity, tissue (drowning in your own body). So the initial management is fluid restriction (no water). But if you are making some urine and you aren’t filtering right, you can lose more of the electrolytes than you should. In this instance, he is losing more sodium than he should. Hyponatremia (low sodium) can kill you too leading to brain swelling, seizures, death.
So how do you solve restricting fluid and giving sodium to someone losing it? The doctors here decide to give HYPERtonic saline. Isotonic saline (normal fluid) is 0.9% sodium chloride. Hypertonic saline is 3% sodium chloride. (Here they even overshoot that … 5%!). So they can give the soldier more sodium in a smaller amount of fluid – a middle ground between restricting and fighting low sodium.
WHEW!
Great discussion!
1. I’m going to have rewatch this episode, because I thought they went isotonic, too. But unlike you, I’m just parroting things I don’t understand.
2. Maybe Marlowe is a go-to for classy doctors from Boston?
Hi Dr Anj! Thank you so much for your thorough explanation of what happens during renal failure as it would apply to this episode! Like I said in the podcast, this sort of thing is very fascinating to me and I love to learn new things all the time! Also, as I mentioned, I’m not exactly in the human medical profession but I’m glad to see that I wasn’t totally off with my explanation! I look forward to learning more about this process (with animals and humans!) and how to counteract it!
What?!? “Don’t you have some sort of captain on the show sometimes?” Why, the outrage! You absolutely have some sort of captain on the show sometimes! Of course, it isn’t Victoria’s fault. My publicist is the one not doing her job. 😉
Seriously, I will attempt an answer, but if I remember correctly, you have had another veteran on the show who was actually military medical — a corpsman, I think. He may have a better answer. My MASHCasting partner Major Joe may want to weigh in, also. Anyway, I think Colonel Potter holds all the cards here. He would notify the I Corps Surgeon General, or whoever issued the order, and tell him straight, “I disobeyed the directive, because we had an idea we thought would work and the boy was going to die anyway. it worked, and I think this treatment might save the rest of them.” I Corps certainly had the evidence to take judicial action (court martial), but they’d be court martialing an experienced and respected surgeon — a full colonel commanding a MASH, no less. At this point in history, they are the new life-saving hotness of military medicine. Court martialing Colonel Potter for saving lives makes the Surgeon General look like a petty and clueless martinet. The prosecutor probably wouldn’t do it, especially when making Colonel Potter retire is an easier option. But they need Potter and his whole team, so they don’t really want that, either. They could present the option of non-judicial punishment — basically lesser punishment in lieu of a court martial, Article 15 under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. But in those procedures, the accused always has the option of saying “Nah, I’m not signing this. I want my day in court.” So, Potter would just call their bluff.
Bottom line, any punishment they give Potter and his staff is a worse punishment for both the I Corps Surgeon General and the soldiers who need medical care. The Surgeon General would probably just do two things. First, he would remember that concern for the patients was what motivated the order in the first place, so the intent was adhered to, if not the letter of the command. Second, he would disseminate a new order prescribing the treatment that the 4077th came up without describing its origin. No one outside the MASH senior medical staff would ever know they got away with disobeying an order. That means there’s no prejudice to good order and discipline among the U.S. Army medical professionals in Korea, and any ego-bruising would be minimized.
You know, thanks to Victoria, I now know of three vocal renditions of “Suicide is Painless” — the one in the movie, hers in the guidance counselor’s office, and Manson’s.
Regardless, great episode as usual! Like you two, I enjoy the Winchester-focused episodes. He’s such a complex character, and his “bride” was delightful. She seemed to enjoy him without taking any of his nonsense seriously. And I really enjoy seasons 8 and 9, when it seems like all the characters are so comfortable with one another. That’s probably a bleedover from their comfort with one another as actors. It enhances the chemistry and the flavor, like chili or enchiladas that have had a day two to sit in the refrigerator.
Looking forward to the next episode as always!
Hello Captain Entropy! Forgive me… I did indeed forget your name which was awful of me! (Forgive us, we’re draftees!) Thank you for sharing your thoughts on what may have happened had we gotten to see the next couple of weeks after this event occurred from the ICorps Army Medical point of view. Very interesting!!!
Absolutely, Victoria! And there is no offense to apologize for, but “Forgive us, we’re draftees” is still the perfect response.
I love this episode for both plotlines. Why on earth didn’t Donna come back?
I can never decide whether I like to take Charles’s line “I’m known for my seafaring songs” as genuine or sarcastic. On the one hand he sings in other episodes, and there are other references to Charles and boats. But on the other hand he sounds sarcastic.
“What is your name?” is one of the greatest line deliveries of the entire show.
That button scene is such a delight, I almost have to wonder if they came up with that first, and then worked backward to script an episode explaining how they got there.
And it would have been nice if at some point in the remaining seasons, we’d have seen Charles writing a letter to Donna Marie, just to indicate that they’ve kept in touch.
I always assumed pre-digital era X-rays were done on photographic film, but your discussion called this assumption into question! I double-checked the reliable and never-wrong internet, and it does seem like the process was to pass radiation through the body, it would hit standard photographic film, then the film would be processed in a traditional dark room and be developed just like photographs, but on transparent stock rather than paper so it could be illuminated from behind. If this is the case, then the Xray department at the 4077th would have a dark room and the chemicals needed to develop standard film in addition to xrays. Assuming Klinger knows how to do it, or knows the right technician to pay off, it would be even faster than Photomat!
I had completely forgotten about the hemorrhagic fever plotline in this episode, to be honest, I could only think of the Charles/Donna-one… It’s so sweet! Love hungover, confused Charles, and Donna brings such a nice energy.
And I love that we several times see his attraction to “wilder” women, who are spirited and fun and passionate. In his regular life back home, I’m sure most of his actions are restricted by what a Winchester should and should not do, and getting super drunk and “marrying” a woman he just met seem pretty far from that.
I believe I have mentioned this before, but I read Charles as ace, I think he experiences romantic attraction and also an attraction to the freedom and lifestyles of these women. So for me, it gives the kiss a little bit of another meaning, that he’s trying to feel that freedom in every way, if that makes sense.
I would absolutely like to see more of Donna, I think she balances Charles so well, and I would also like to see her befriend Margaret. I think Donna would remind Margaret of Lorraine, in a way, this fun, open, warm person, who can help Margaret grow warmer and more open too. It would be so nice to see the two of them team up against “the boys” with some epic pranks, for example. We get so little female friendship on the show, and it would be nice for a female guest character to not come in only as a love interest, but someone who can actually relate to Margaret too. See her form a bond with someone she doesn’t know from earlier in life.
This episode also makes me wish we had seen more storylines for Charles and Margaret together. Not in a romantic way, just friendly, They have so much in common, with their backgrounds, of doing what is expected of them. Both have fathers, not dads, really.
Margaret got engaged to someone she had known for two seconds, and Charles “married” someone he had known for two seconds, so they have that in common too. I know, it’s far from being the same thing, but still, it’s a nice detail to both of their personalities.
This episode also made me think of the yarn-theme we see in many episodes, where someone (often BJ – or maybe always, I haven’t done any real reasearch) is holding onto yarn, while another person turns it into a nice ball. I am probably over analyzing this (who, me? 🙂 ), but it makes me think of “De Tre Nornorna”, The Three Norns, in Norse mythology. They are deities who weave threads of fate, shaping the course of human destinies. If a thread is cut, a person dies.
I’m sure this wasn’t in the show creators minds, but I really like the symbolism of that, because the doctors on the show literally hold the fate of so many people in their hands, and if they make one mistake – a thread is cut – someone will die. It’s just imagery that always stands out to me.
Also, the yarn is bright red here – anti green – so it pops really well, and represents life and warmth against all the green.
I also thought about Hawkeye’s line “There’s one war with a happy ending,” he says when they know the patient is recovering. It reminded me of his line “When are we gonna find a cure for the common war” in the last episode, and even though they are similar, this one works about 1000% better. 🙂
Lovely conversation, thank you both!
This is one of the late season episodes that I always come back to because of how great a Charles episode it is. I agree that the chemistry between Charles and Donna is incredibly and I would have loved to see her come back.
My all-time favorite Charles line is in this episode because it is flawlessly delivered: “What is your NAME?!” Not only is the line said perfectly but the look on his face and his body movements add to the humor of it.
Drunk Winchester is best Winchester
Answering the call for a veteran perspective.
The 4077 had a great track record of saving so many lives through their surgery techniques. That would have carried a lot of weight. The same is true with the relationships COL Potter had with generals.
The existing Army policy would have been difficult for any other MASH unit to push back on. However, their actions worked and saved a life. It would have been very different had they failed.
Army doctrine is a living thing and changes over time. Proving that older stances were ineffective moves it forward.
I love this episode so much, its one of my favorites from this season. Its one of my favorite comedic Charles episodes. This episode has such a great balance of comedy and drama. The last scene of this episode is my favorite. Its one of my favorite group drunk scenes in M*A*S*H. Its a laugh riot from beginning to end. I love how the ceremony was performed by the Irreverened JB Honeydew! LOL! I love how Hawkeye is holding his cowboy hat to his chest and just laughing at the things that BJ is saying. Its so funny!
Great episode Rob I really enjoyed it.
Regarding developing the film in the X-ray room. My thought is that this is a windowless room and thus an ideal place to develop film. I never was under the impression that they were actually using the X-ray machine to develop these pictures. But for as many times as I have watched this episode, I don’t recall the exact phrasing. I guess I will be watching again and paying more attention.
Also I am in agreement with those who wish we could have seen Donna return for another episode
“Mr. and Mrs. Who?” it’s such a great Charles episode and I love how we get to see so many different sides to Charles character. There is Doctor-Charles, who shows concern for the patients. Drunk/hungover-Charles, who is such a treat in his confused and disarmed state, and David Ogden Stiers just plays it perfectly; the scene where he meets Corporal Shaw and he doesn’t have the hand-to-eye coordination to get the patient chart off the hook or to hang it back on, and B.j. just quietly helps him – it is done so subtly, it’s perfect. There is Romance-Charles at his most charming after Donna has managed to disarm him. We get Old-money-Charles in his finest Winchester-form as he angrily rants about the marriage and how the finest lawyer lives in his father’s pocket, and then the next moment we get vulnerable-Charles where he worriedly asks Hawkeye and B.J. what he’s going to do if he really is married.
This brings me to the Hawkey-B.J.-Charles-dynamic which I really love in this episode because while they tease Charles relentlessly, it never feels mean-spirited, but rather has the energy of younger brothers delighting in seeing their usually superior older sibling knocked off kilter. They poke, prod, and enjoy the situation, but there’s no mockery or cruelty.
The dynamic between Charles and Donna is another highlight – mostly because Donna just seems like such a fun and amazing person, and she and Charles have great chemistry together. There’s a sweetness to their interaction and she seems like such a good match for Charles especially because she isn’t intimidated by the cold and unfriendly manner he treats her in the beginning. It’s really a shame her character didn’t return for more episodes.
All in all, if you like Charles as a character like I do, this is an excellent episode.