Once Upon A Geek – What If (vol 1) #24 and What If (vol 2) #2

ONCE UPON A WHAT IF!   

Andrew Leyland and The Irredeemable Shag find their joy discussing the Marvel comic series that explores the multiverse of cause-and-effect.. WHAT IF! We discuss Andy’s history with the series, then we take a deep dive into two issues:

  • What If (vol 1) #24 – “What if… Gwen Stacy had Lived?”
  • What If (vol 2) #2 – “What if… Daredevil Killed the Kingpin?”

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7 responses to “Once Upon A Geek – What If (vol 1) #24 and What If (vol 2) #2”

  2. Great show, folks. I bought both original issues when they came out. The Gwen story from a convenience story I suspect and definitely the Daredevil story from a comic book speciality shop.

    What if Gwen Stacy Had Lived may be my favourite What If story — certainly in the top three — and I remember it very well. Like Andy I longed for a sequel.

    I did pick up the Marvel Tales issue that reprinted Gwen’s death in 1978. At the time, my Spider-Man reading included the current comics, the Pocket Books reprints of Ditko’s first 20 or so issues, and the Conway-era reprints in Marvel Tales.

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  3. Fun episode! I look forward to hearing more What If? reviews in the future!

    I went into Vol 2 #2 with very limited knowledge and it still made perfect sense. I’d previously read perhaps 3-4 Daredevil comics (one of which was the Born Again finale) and only had the vaguest notion of the Gang War being a thing. People actually read Spider-Man in the 80s?! This imaginary tale moving into areas past Born Again made sense given what a big part of the Marvel U Kingpin was, even then. I walked away from this issue wishing [redacted] could’ve carried on as [redacted]. He was way better than [redacted].

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  4. Always a pleasure to hear more Andy. Oh and Shag too, of course!

    I read the Gwen story in the past few years or so (I think in that “Best of What If” tpb?), and I agree it’s a standout. It’s also a shame there wasn’t a sequel in that first volume, but I agree with Andy that I don’t think I want anyone doing it now. Even if Isabella were lured back, he probably wouldn’t continue it the way a younger version of himself would have. Plus there’s too many other decades of other Spidey stories to influence it.

    I bought the Daredevil issue right off the rack, and I too remember wondering how it turned into a Spider-Man story. I WAS reading the Spidey titles when Gang War took place, and while it kinda makes sense to dovetail the two, it’s kind of like Miller & Mazzuchelli’s Year One and Barr & Davis Year Two. Yes, they are in essence about very similar themes and characters, but thematically and presentation-wise, like chalk and cheese, as I hear the Brits are fond of saying!

    Great discussion! Looking forward to more What If, and that 2-second Airwolf/Blue Thunder debate, because…that’s not really a question is it? Ernest Borgnine could eat Dana Carvey for breakfast!

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  5. I am only halfway through but have to leave some Gwen comments.

    For me, Gwen is who Peter should be with so this What If was a great story. And yes, this story deserves a sequel. And yes, that Todd Nauck Gwen story is worth it, especially if you are a Gwen fan.

    The Bridge controversy: my poor girlfriend! Every time we drive through NYC, I point to the George Washington Bridge and say ‘that’s where Gwen Stacy died … OR IS IT???’ Every time. I am lucky.

    Lastly, I actually had a no-prize in my mind for the mailing issue. I always thought the Goblin had the package ready and told some lackey ‘if you haven’t heard from me in a year, it means I have died. At that point, put this in the mail.’ (The delayed mail/’it means I’m dead’ trope is in lots of media.) So even though Norman lives, the Goblin is gone and that lackey did what he was told to do. One year later he dropped it in the mail, just in time to mess up the wedding.

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  6. The way Spider-Man covered up for Norman never sat well with me. For a character that’s all about responsibility, that was an extremely irresponsible thing to do. Even worse, Peter once subjected Norman to a drug induced psychosis, thinking that would somehow make matters better. I read Spectacular no. 2 around the time Identity Crisis was coming out, which heavily influenced how I viewed Peter’s actions.

    Also, I calculate a 87% chance that the butterfly effect from Shag having hair will somehow end in a nuclear apocalypse.

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  7. Had so much fun with this one, and having Andy on was great since I am following along with his Spider-Man pod as I read through the 1960s Marvel comics. His enthusiasm for Spider-Man on that show has made me fall in love with the character all over again, and where else will I hear a phrase like “molly coddling” when talking about Spider-Man going into berserker mode on Norman Osborne?

    I am pretty sure What If? #24 is one of the first ones I ever bought off the rack. I loved the issue, and had zero context for the original story. It wasn’t until a few years later when Marvel Age reprinted heo original story that I finally read “The Death of Gwen Stacy”. Which makes for an odd emotional reaction, since the first story I saw her in was this one, so my reference is “alive and married to Peter” Gwen, and not “broken neck dead” Gwen.

    This is probably one of the best What If issues that I ever read, and I am so glad you both said that you wish this story continued. I don’t love all the multiverse Spider-Man stuff over the years, but this is a world I would have liked more time in. I love that you noted the artwork when Jameson, after the consequences of revealing who Spider-Man was, had such a great “dog catches the car” moment. I feel like, in every reality, when Jonah gets Spider-Man where he wants him, he has that moment of realization over the gravity of his actions, and getting it captured at the end of this was wonderful.

    I don’t have a ton of the 2nd volume of What If, but along with the “What If The Alien Costume Had Possessed Spider-Man”, issue #2 with Daredevil killing Kingpin is up there as two of the best from this run. When I first read this issue, I thought we might be heading towards a scenario where Matt ends up becoming the new Kingpin in one of those “the criminal underground kingpin is really a hero” tropes. Where Matt’s pennance would be to control the mobs and make them non-lethal, tear them down from the inside kind of thing, and that RIchard FIsk would become DD and fight Matt as Kingpin. Only about half of that imagined story happened, and while some of the beats bothered me, like Matt’s complete collapse into wanting to die, which, really, as a catholic character, seems a bit odd. I assume that he would have been more driven to do the work to repair the damage he had done, not do a suicide by cop. Sin in Catholicism goes hand in hand with forgiveness as far as I can tell, so his need for some kind of punishment seemed out of character. Writers like to torture Matt and make him crazy, so, I guess it fits.

    Still, it was a great story and I loved hearing you both talk about it. Especially Andy bringing into focus that this was really a story about RIchard Fisk and not Matt Murdock. Made me see this in a totally different light.

    Thanks for putting this one together!

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