On this episode of Peace Bound and Down: A Wonder Woman Podcast, Sean is joined by David Ace Gutierrez, the Phantom Stranger of the FW Podcast Network, to discuss Wonder Woman Vol. 2, issue 20! Are you ready to solve the mystery of Who Killed Mindi Meyer?
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- Promos:
- DC SpecialCast
Bringing a little peace to man’s world each month.
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Ian Beauchamp? DAG, that sounds like the name of somebody that got rejected by the X-Men. I applaud your spur of the moment creativity and encourage you to spend the next decade writing a series of novels telling us of Ian’s thrilling adventures.
Ian’s current whereabouts are unknown. He has a number of warrants out of his arrest and he may have a drinking problem. That’s all I can say right now.
Fear inspires, Clinton! It inspires!
Such a great issue and such a great discussion.
For me, as someone who loves twist endings and almost anticipate them, Mindi being dead already was fantastic. Reminds me of old movies where the man convicted of killing someone turns out to be the ‘dead man’ himself just horribly scarred – convicted for killing himself. Or Twilight Zone endings where the Monsters on Maple Street are just paranoid humans.
The secret questions are awesome –
Alias – In college I was ‘Larry Kutz’ because I had an actual Iowa license of someone who maybe maybe maybe if you yourself were drunk and had mace sprayed in your eyes looked like me. This was Larry Kutz. So moving forward in life, even now, whenever I need to give a phony name, I give Larry Kutz.
Turnaround issue/out of place issue – My love for the 5YL Legion shines again. Issue #10, Roxxas is on a rampage and we think he has killed Ultra Boy. Issue #12 is the Legion rallying to find Roxxas and bring him to justice, reforming the team in the dark future. Issue #11? A humor issue with Matter-Eater Lad being a bad lawyer. Insanity!
Addiction films – obviously Requiem For A Dream. Haunting my mind, even now. But if that is off the table, I’d say Less Than Zero as we see RDJ slowly slip deeper into a addiction despite the help offered by his friends. Plus, ‘Hazy Shade of Winter’ – the best song remake ever.
Comic Detective – The Question – both the paranoid Ditko-esque version we have seen recently or the Zen-like guy in the O’Neil/Cowan run.
Done-in-One issues- I am very very torn. Action Comics #775 ‘Whats So Funny about Truth,Justice and The American Way’ is perfect showing how Superman has to remain above it all while the world and heroes become more bloodthirsty. But also Animal Man #5 – The Coyote Gospel – is just pitch perfect. After a fairly straightforward first 4 issues of that Animal Man run, Grant Morrison shows us his insanity in this heart-felt issue of sacrifice.
Favorite Band – The Smiths (and I suppose early solo Morrissey) are my number one. But the Talking Heads are a very close second.
Great show!
I guess the name Dr Kutz doesn’t put a patient at ease!
Secret questions
1. in high school I had the alias deuce I use to wear a green dice on chain .
Movie addiction: the triumph and tragedy of world class championship wrestling .
The last polka , my breakfast with blassie ,
Not movies but I’ve watched start trek the menagerie parts 1&2 multiple times,
MST3K mad monster and MST3K master Ninja 1 ,
MST3K master ninja 2 I’ve rewatched a tons of times .
Favorite bands
Beatles , monkees , bay city rollers , beach boys
Favorite solo singer : Elvis Presley all hail the king of rock and roll .
Here’s my secret question
Witch book has the better movie
The outsiders or huckleberry fin
And if you where teaching a class featuring the dc super girls which I believed includes Wonder Woman which movie would show them and what book would assign them and then what kind of project would you give them that goes with the book?
I’m trying something different this time hope you like it my favorite outsiders charter was twobit I think his name was he was clown of the group .
Your taste in bands in exquisite. Have you seen the Monkees (now just Dolenz) live?
I have to go with Outsiders. It’s a solid adaptation.
Well, I guess I’d show them the new Supergirl movie and teach the King/Evely book. The project: Make this book better! Make me like a Tom King project that isn’t Sheriff of Babylon or Omega Men!
No I’ve seen k.c and the sunshine and band and the beach boys live thou with the family we all enjoyed
Awesome episode as always, Sean. And David was a great guest. David – hit me up for a DC SpecialCast if you have one you like!
The story about the teacher and reporter not giving credit to comic books for your reading prowess really hacks at me. I experienced a lot of that growing up too, but you were braver than I was. I was a “closet” comic book reader most of the time.
I agree that the first person narration of this story probably had more to do with the “Who is Wonder Girl” story than Watchmen, but as you said, it was definitely in the zeitgeist at that time.
Sharp departure? David hit the nail on the head with “In the Pale Moonlight” – best episode of best Star Trek series. Still floors me today.
Done in one? I can’t beat the ones you guys mentioned except maybe add New Teen Titans #8 – “A Day in The Life” – I think this was where it was clear that this series was something special. It certainly was to me, as I credit NTT with keeping me in comics as a teenager.
Keep up the great work!
Just popping in to say that Carol Flynn was the wife of George Perez. Now back to the episode.
Fun show, gentlemen. And I finally get to hear the… infamous…? notorious…? David Ace Gutiérrez, who allegedly is *not* the founder of the Katana Banana Fruit Stand franchise (T-Shirts available via the “Merch” button above…).
As Super Captain had stated, Carol Flynn is indeed George Pérez’s widow. My understanding from interviews is that she had helped Mr. Pérez often with his work, from filling in the blacks on his inking assignments to keeping him up-to-date on clothing fashions. In fact, she appeared as “Phoenicia Banu” in TALES OF THE TEEN TITANS #50, the Donna Troy wedding issue, and had designed all of the gowns for the bridal party (and credited as “Carol Flynn” in the story credits). She also hand-made all of the fun “Hawaiian shirts” that Mr. Pérez wears at shows and events…
And as evidenced in this story, she has also inspired Mr. Pérez’s story ideas – one of the most … infamous…? notorious…? one being the effect of DiNA Simmons’ menstrual cycle in CRIMSON PLAGUE…
Your question on done-in-one stories reminded me that this WONDER WOMAN story, as well as “Who Is Donna Troy” in THE NEW TEEN TITANS #38, were on my dad’s list for his DONE-IN-ONE WONDERS PODCAST WONDER SHOW, which he sadly did not have time to cover. His notes on issue #20’s cover say that Mr. Pérez actually used charcoal pencils and grease pens to create the “shading” effects on the “newspaper photos”, not Zip-A-Tone or Craftint paper. Another note he had is that this was the first time Mr. Pérez had established that Wonder Woman had an accent, with Inspector Indelicato’s “purple prose” on page 13:
“From her moist, shiny lips came a gentle, sultry voice, flavored with an accent both exotic and musical.”
Also, that “indelicato” is Italian for indelicate/tactless, which may be a little too on the nose…
Some time ago on BlueSky I shared an excerpt about George Pérez’s comments on this story from an interview in Dad’s copy of the amateur press association fanzine INTERLAC #73… (originally done for the British fanzine FANTASY ADVERTISER #107), which I will transcribe here.
***
George Pérez: When I did “Who Killed Myndi Mayer”, no one counted on it being an anti-drug book, by its very nature. And even when we found out she was an addict, no one criticized her for being an addict. One person said “if she were just an addict, I’d feel sorry for her,” they were more concerned that she was criminal, they thought she was doing criminal acts. The fact that she was an addict, was something “that happens,” and unfortunately it was happening to her.
She’s dead now. Criticizing her because she was an addict, now that she’s dead, didn’t seem the right thing to do. Also, one person pointed it out, and it never really occurred to me in the Myndi Meyer story, which is probably why it showed a message without being as blatant as it could have been: it’s one of the rare times in comics that a drug story was done where the victim was not a teenager. She was a forty-year-old woman, obviously a woman who *would* know better. Doesn’t have that same peer pressure that a child would have, but still, just as much a victim. That the drug problem is practically ageless, really.
(One of the interviewers) Ken Gale: Sure is.
George Pérez: To me it was such a natural progression of the character, it never occurred to me that I was doing something different, because, again, like the scene with Menalippe (referring to showing her in bed with another Amazon on page 1 of WONDER WOMAN v2 #21), it seemed logical, it just followed through. It never occurred to me that it was unusual.
***
There are other comments on upcoming WONDER WOMAN stories from this interview that I will be sure to share when the time comes.
Thanks again for the great conversation.
Good work, Isamu. If anyone wants to read the whole interview, the issue is accessible here – FA was such a great zine:
https://www.comicsfanzines.co.uk/d-g/fa-90-115
Thanks for the detective work, y’all!
What a terrific issue and episode! When I think about drug stories, specifically around this era, I think of the real-life tragedy of basketball player Len Bias. He was drafted second overall by the Boston Celtics after a stellar college playing career at the University of Maryland and was on his way to stardom. Then, two days later, he was dead from cocaine. I grew up and have lived much of my life in the heart of ACC country and have seen many great players and Bias remains the best I ever saw. Even better than Michael Jordan. His death was just two years before this story was published.
Enough sports ball. As far as favorite single issues, Sean, I am right there with you on “We Were Only Foolin'” from New Mutants #45. I identified so much w/ Larry Bodine. I still remember the awful joke about mutants that he told and Kitty Pryde’s powerful speech at the end of the issue. It’s probably had more effect on me than any other single issue of any comic.
I would also nominate “If Superman Didn’t Exist …” from Action Comics #554, a great story by Marv Wolfman and Gil Kane.
The X-Files had kind of a tradition of dropping hilarious comedy episodes in the middle of all the dark alien conspiracy theories. See Jose Chung’s From Outer Space, Bad Blood, Small Potatoes, etc.
And the question about favorite band is SO hard to answer. For the longest time, I would have been R.E.M., but in more recent years, I’ve started having at least equal appreciation for The Alarm, The Connells, Gin Blossoms, and Toad the Wet Sprocket. Gen X FTW. Although I do also love The Beach Boys, CCR, and The Beatles.
Sean, I also bagged groceries at a grocery store for about three years or so. Ever since, I have made it a point to rescue stray carts/buggys in supermarket parking lots and put them into their corral.
What a terrific issue and episode! When I think about drug stories, specifically around this era, I think of the real-life tragedy of basketball player Len Bias. He was drafted second overall by the Boston Celtics after a stellar college playing career at the University of Maryland and was on his way to stardom. Then, two days later, he was dead from cocaine. I grew up and have lived much of my life in the heart of ACC country and have seen many great players and Bias remains the best I ever saw. Even better than Michael Jordan. His death was just two years before this story was published.
Enough sports ball. As far as favorite single issues, Sean, I am right there with you on “We Were Only Foolin'” from New Mutants #45. I identified so much w/ Larry Bodine. I still remember the awful joke about mutants that he told and Kitty Pryde’s powerful speech at the end of the issue. It’s probably had more effect on me than any other single issue of any comic.
I would also nominate “If Superman Didn’t Exist …” from Action Comics #554, a great story by Marv Wolfman and Gil Kane.
The X-Files had kind of a tradition of dropping hilarious comedy episodes in the middle of all the dark alien conspiracy theories. See Jose Chung’s From Outer Space, Bad Blood, Small Potatoes, etc.
And the question about favorite band is SO hard to answer. For the longest time, it would have been R.E.M., but now I would have to include The Alarm, The Connells, Toad the Wet Sprocket, and Gin Blossoms alongside them. Gen X FTW! And I also love The Beach Boys, CCR, and The Beatles.
Sean, I worked as a bagger at a grocery store for about three years in my youth and, to this day, I still put stray buggy/carts in the corral when people leave them all over the supermarket parking lot.
Favorite fictional detective is Andy Sipowicz from NYPD Blue. Overweight, bald, alcoholic, and he still pulled Sharon Lawrence and Charlotte Ross.
Fab show as ever, top job Sean and David.
I remember being shocked by this issue, not so much by the drama of it all as the fact Perez was tossing away a great, recently introduced supporting character.
Having had this issue, did we really need the miseryfest that was ‘Chalk Drawings’ in #46? That should’ve been a ten-page back-up in an annual, but it just went on and on… and no, that’s not me volunteering for that one, Sean!
I can no longer recall what this is in relation to, but if memory serves the Roy Raymond who was Owlman in Outsiders was actually the son of the TV detective.
There are so many great one-off stories, but one I remember really impressing me was Legion of superheroes 297, which served as a recap of the origin and career of Cosmic Boy, an emotional journey and a way to upgrade what he could do. It’s just stellar… if I’ve convinced anyone to read this, if you get to DC Infinite, ignore the penultimate page, as it’s a gag piece that was at the end of the original issue and has been misplaced inside the story, and it’s completely wrong in tone – the creative team should never have had it in the issue in the first place
Always a joy to have a new episode, but I’m afraid since Outcasters is no longer covering The Outsiders, Katana Banana Fruit Stand no longer has the cachet it used to. Just saying. 😉
Oh, I loved Diana’s “Batman moment” as DAG perfectly called it. Subtle and rewarding when you realize what’s happening in the art.
Does this issue feel like Perez is trying too hard to “be a writer?” There’s nothing wrong with embedding text vignettes sometimes, but it was done back in issue #8’s Time Passages, just one publication year ago. Or did George want to get into Indelicato’s head too much, and doing the story from his point of view would have taken 3-4 issues with a more traditional comic format, and that just wasn’t done back then? In today’s decompressed storytelling approach, no one would have blinked an eye at it.
It was shocking for Mindi to be killed so abruptly. You can see the impact lingers in fans as this very issue was covered over a year ago on Sara Century’s Best Issue Ever Podcast. It’s a great listen for anyone who wants more on this issue. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2CkOzfgOI14NsP0LqxTHOm
Let’s see, one-and-done stories. My cheat is Amazing Spider-Man #248’s second story, “The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man.” There’s really not much to it in terms of plot as it’s mostly Spidey’s OHOTMU entry, but it’s a classic that still makes me emotional, and it did get prominent billing on the issue’s cover. The “not cheat” is Flash Vol 2 #55, “Nobody Dies”, where Wally jumps out of a plane to save a woman. The full page setup where Wally has to consider what he’s about to do, followed by the splash page of him jumping. Always a powerful moment.