JLUCast is back, as Cindy and Chris discuss the Season 2 finale “Epilogue”! 65 years in the future, Batman Terry McGinnis deals with a startling revelation about his origins. The only person who can explain his true connection to Bruce Wayne is…Amanda Waller!!!
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Clip credits:
Clips from Justice League Unlimited “Epilogue”, music by Lolita Ritmanis and Kristopher Carter, theme by Kristopher Carter.
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JLU Cast back again! I really miss this show when you’re on break, because it’s been such a joy to revisit this series. So this episode is like an early Christmas present. 🙂
You both are absolutely right, the black-n-white scenes come across as flashbacks, not as scenarios in Terry’s head. Especially when there’s a scene as detailed as Terry and the future League fighting villains, why would that be part of Terry’s imagination? Regardless, there should have been better visual or narrative cues for us viewers.
But aside from that, I absolutely love this episode. Bruce comforting Ace, Amanda coming clean with Terry, and Terry’s final scene with Bruce. And that line from Amanda, “I can’t even remember what this pill is for. Oh right, Alzheimer’s.” She’s joking with him, enjoying the irony of forgetting about her Alzheimer’s pill, because she’s an old lady and has fun because why not! It’s that contrast of making us smile, the big revelations, and the moments that make me cry. Almost perfect.
So long season 2. Bring on season 3! Thanks, Franklins!
It’s nice to know we were missed! I’m also glad to know it was not just Cindy and I who thought those black and white scenes were flashbacks! I think Waller probably was funning a bit with Terry, and hopefully, medical science has helped lessen the effects of Alzheimer’s, at the very least. If they can splice animal DNA and “clone” Batman…why not?
Although I’m a fan of nearly every aspect of the classic Bruce Timm animated DCU, I always believed this episode was a mistake.
Turning Terry into Bruce Wayne’s son/clone is a step too far for me. I feel it diminishes Terry overall as there’s no need to connect him biologically to the Wayne DNA. The world may “need a Batman” but must he be always be a Wayne? The desire to replicate Bruce’s DNA (sorry Warren McGinnis!) smacks of arrogance rather than a noble cause.
The plot of this episode also has distinct echoes of Ira Levin’s novel “The Boys from Brazil” (1976) about a Nazi plot to clone Hitler. In the book, the Nazis attempt to have the clones’ lives echo the Nazi leader to ensure they will share psychological traits. This is especially apparent in the near murder of Terry’s “parents.”
Overall, the episode is well-done & the callbacks to Batman Beyond are fun, but the overall plot seems flat-footed to me.
I’m really looking forward to the Franklins discussing the upcoming JLU season. Challenge of the Super Friends was my first introduction to the larger DCU & this homage was right up my alley!
Chuck, I read The Boys from Brazil as a kid after seeing the movie, and I was properly freaked out by both. Valid callback.
Cloning Hitler and getting him to relive his life? Crazy! (See Adventures of the Outsiders #35-37.)
So, it’s a well-used plot.
I have heard of The Boys From Brazil, but have never read it. I would imagine Timm and McDuffie had probably read it, because it sure sounds like it infuenced the story here!
I’m still waffling on how I feel about this one. I liked Batman Beyond, and I mostly accept it as DCAU canon in my head, but since this is essentially the “last” story set in the timeline (before you get into the Legion’s time), I can usually abide it. Again, ask me again tomorrow, and I may tell you a different answer!
Cindy and Chris, I very much enjoyed both the JLU episode and the JLUCast episode about it. I was nodding along throughout at your observations and insights. I wasn’t surprised at Waller’s ruthlessness, as I think it’s her defining characteristic, but I was happy to see she repented and sought redemption through faith as she got older. I agree that it seemed like a natural outcome. I will add that another factor in Ms. Waller’s failure to ensure legacy for other heroes may have been that the other key heroes had legacy aplenty (Supergirl, possibly Superboy, one or more Wonder Girls, Impulse, Green Lanterns, Warhawk, etc). Hard to say what transpired in the interim years of the DCAU future, though — between JLU and Batman Beyond, I mean.
I get Chuck’s point about Terry having Bruce’s DNA being a little over the top, and I felt that, too. But Bruce was also uniquely gifted for the role of Batman, and Terry took to it quickly. And he always looked more like Bruce than his dad. So I felt like this explained some of those coincidences well. That mitigated my feelings about the plot and allowed me to enjoy the story. Also, did Terry look a little like Elvis in this one to you, or is that just me?
Oh, and I’d love to tell you how I first took Terry’s visualized scenarios, but I don’t remember for sure. I *think* I thought they were flashbacks, then figured out they were just mind-plays when the reality at the end didn’t match up Definitely confusing.
Looking forward to next season!
I think what shocked me about Waller’s willingness to outright murder two innocent people was that we haven’t seen THIS Waller quite be that ruthless. She was appalled by General Eiling’s willingness to kill an island of people just to get rid of Doomsday and Superman for instance. I think it it totally tracks with other depcitions of Waller, like the classic comic version, for instance.
I guess the DNA thing can MAKE you a good Batman, but Dick has filled in for Bruce admirably in the comics, so I don’t think it’s a given. Heck, Batman Beyond could have been about Dick Grayson 10 to 20 years in the future. Or, Tim Drake, had they not gone down the ROTJ (not Return of the Jedi) route. Or maybe it they had…and Tim takes up the mantle to redeem himself?
On a totally different tangent: is the older Terry designed to resemble Elvis? I always thought the younger Batman Beyond Terry had a similar look to Leonardo DiCaprio.
Yes! I never saw DiCaprio (but will now), but yes to Elvis! I’m happy someone else sees it. Chuck, please see the comment immediately above (last line of the second paragraph), and thank you. Thankyouverymuch.
Waller: “You don’t quite have his magnificent brain…and then there’s your penchant for peanut butter and nanner sandwiches…”
This warmed my middle-aged hick heart.
Chris, I agree I thought the cut scenes were flashbacks as well, but I interpreted them as having taken place a year or two prior to the “live” events. My interpretation was that Terry realizes he has Bruce’s DNA as he described. He has the altercation in the Batcave when he confronts Bruce about the truth. He stews about the situation for a while – a month or two – and breaks up with Dana because he doesn’t think he is his own man anymore. He eventually reconciles with Bruce and Dana, and gets to the point to where he wants to marry her. But there’s still the linger doubt about who he is and why he has Bruce’s DNA, so he goes to see Waller for some answers. After his visit, he’s convinced on where he goes from there.
We see a lot of Waller’s character in this episode which I liked because I thought she was well-used in the series. I agree that Cougar Waller is just cringe-worthy, but her range of morality is shocking. Being able to so willingly throw away innocent people and a child for the greater good – she certainly could have fit in well with the Justice Lords. But I think the biggest transgression is her choice to rob Warren McGuinness of his ability to have his own children. I mean that’s a whole bloodline she just wiped out! Do what you want to the other parts of a man’s body, but let’s not go ahead and mess with his, ahem, manhood.
Good point about Waller and the Justice Lords…which is incredibly iroinic since their existence is what set her off on her crusade against the League to begin with!
And yeah, robbing Warren of his “manhood” is indeed very disturbing! Maybe not as blatant as cold-blooded murder, but certainly reprehinsible.
Don’t know what I made of it at the time, honestly. I didn’t realize it was supposed to be a finale AND I’d never watched Batman Beyond. So it probably felt like some kind of Armageddon 2001 or something.
I’ve seen all of Batman Beyond since, of course, enough not to like the idea that he has to be a clone of the original. I tend not to like “biological destiny” stories (see The Rise of Skywalker).
I hadn’t even thought of folks who hadn’t watched ANY Batman Beyond. This episode probably comes across as a weird pilot for a barely related show, as TV series sometimes do.
Yeah, today I’m not digging the whole “clone” thing. Ask me tomorrow, and and I may think differently. But I’m starting to like it less.