ONCE UPON A WHAT IF!
M.A. Solko and The Irredeemable Shag find their joy discussing the Marvel comic series that explores the multiverse of cause-and-effect.. WHAT IF! We discuss Solko’s history with the series, then we take a deep dive into two issues:
- What If (vol 1) #36 – “What if the Fantastic Four Had Not Gained Their Powers?” by John Byrne
- What If (vol 2) #12 – “What if the X-Men had Stayed in Asgard?” by Jim Valentino
Finally, Shag covers YOUR listener feedback from the past few episodes!
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What If? #36 (Vol. 1) is not only one of my favorite issues of What If?, on top of that, it’s one of my favorite comics of all time. It’s also the first issue of What If? I ever read. I soon became obsessed either the book and it became one of the first titles I would look for in the back issue bins.
When I was trying to learn to draw comics, What If? 36 was the book I “swiped” from to learn how to do action sequences and compositions. (Something I was never able to get right). But, I created about 3 issues of my own comic featuring more adventures of this unpowered FF battling monsters, robots and alien invaders.
Of course, this version of the group did return in the second volume of What If? in the final installment of the TimeQuake storyline.
I remember being excited for What If the X-Men had remained in Asgard. I had the X-Men Asgard Wars TPB, one of the first trades I ever bought, back in the day before TPBs were a big part of comic publishing.
I’ll have to track down that TimeQuake issue for the further adventures of this F4 crew!
1. IT looks like kirby cuz Byrne loves Kirby
2. i dont think anybody elese would Do A “WHAT IF FF 1
3. I think factor x is ONLY IN the what if
4 YES inddedy do! in the 90s What if WAS a book they told newbies to pitch but THEY really dont like my stuff! ”
5 a lot of defenders stories are too confusing for what if the answer to “what if nighthawk lived is “are you sure he did’nt?
re: Factor-X, it looks like he did show up for Nova #20-24. I’ll have to check those issues out if they are on Marvel’s app. (Words I never thought I’d be saying.)
The Defenders is a tough one based on it’s publishing history when lined up against What If?. I would’ve lined up for “What if Moondragon won?” or “What if Moondragon didn’t turn evil,” but I can’t see that moving many units by the time What If? V2 came around.
Man, I love What If? #36, or rather the lead FF story, so much – probably my very favorite of the entire series (well, that and the all-humor issue). But yeah, the Nova story is really unimpressive. I always wished that the FF story had been stretched, annual style, to cover the entire issue. And back then, but even later, I kind of wished Byrne had done a mini-series starring this non-powered FF (and yeah, I know it would have faced accusations of being a rip-off of Challengers, but who cares?)
While some What If issues try to cram in too much post-change continuity, the F4 story is one where I really wish we could’ve seen further adventures with the F4 standards. Doom and Galactus seem like they would’ve had solid sales.
You taking about what if the Fire and Water
Net work had bin marvel based .
I wondered what would happen if you guys in that
Time did an all winners special in the first book the it’s all solo stories in issue I’m assuming the text story would be a radio drama . So my secret question is who would cover the other solo stories
The black marvel , the angel and captain America ?
I’d give Frank and shag cap and the Franklin’s the black marvel since he’s marvels Batman and the host special cast for the angle .
I’m currently fan-casting the reality where it’s the Hot Stuff & Casper Network!
That would bin interesting then there would bin a Harvey street kids pod cast and how rich can you get the Richie rich podcast .
The cover for What If #36 is glorious! I was a little worried it would be a bait-n-switch with a different artist inside, but no, Byrne thru and thru. I know he included the FF’s origin in the monthly series once or twice, so he probably could draw the opening argument in his sleep. Such a fun issue, I wish I’d seen it on the spinner racks.
Then What If #12. I did buy this one fresh off the stands, and it’s a favorite from that series. The cover alone was worth it, and I’m trying to think if any other stories converged as nicely into a What If tale as “mutants in Asgard” meet “Frog Thor”. (See Thor #366 to see him go from frog to anthropomorphic frog man.) If so, I’d love to know, because that’s perfection. Valentino made this a worthy successor to the original stories.
And. This story drives my continuity brain crazy. I know this will sound negative, but it’s really not. There’s my reaction to the story as-is, and because What If’s by their nature trigger speculations, I can’t help but go down rabbit holes, and there’s a high number of those in this issue.
Like the single panel about the X-Men returned to Earth. I agree with Solko that a whole issue is truly needed to address this. I don’t even mean for months later, I mean immediately upon return, because the X-Men are supposed to return to Earth in Paris midway thru Uncanny X-Men #200, the trial of Magneto, and Prof X almost dies but is taken off into space, and Magneto ditches the court to teach the New Mutants. That’s a ton to hand wave away! Did Magneto get killed by Fenris? Or not leave the trial? Also, Madelyn goes into labor during #200, and baby Nate appears on page 1 of #201. If Scott doesn’t leave the team when Storm fought him for leadership, and he didn’t abandon Madelyn to lead X-Factor, but instead brings the old members plus Jean into the X-Men, where did Mads and Nate go? Did she have a confrontation with Jean or not? Then there’s Rachel being on the same team as resurrected Jean? How did their meeting go? And what about the kids X-Factor brings in: Rusty, Skids, Boom-Boom, and Rictor? Do they not get helped? Again, this is all 1-2 months after X-Men Annual #9! If the story could last to Frog Thor, these are glaring omissions! Just change the panel or spare a second panel “X-Factor members joined the X-Men, Magneto served his sentence, and the X-Factor kids were new New Mutants.” Done.
Then there’s Rogue. “Ah can touch people heah and not absorb their mem’ries.” This point was not in the original story that I could see. But in Rogue’s very first appearance in Avengers Annual #10, she absorbs Thor’s powers. Thor’s! If Asgardians should be immune to her touch, there’s no precedent. I’ll grant there can be no-prizes, but for such a big plot point, in fact Rogue’s *only* plot point, there should have been more explanation since it’s pivotal to her staying in Asgard at all.
And Loki. The demand that all of the mutants stay or go was a big dramatic moment. And then he changes the rules not once but twice! It lost what made it so emotional in the original story. The stakes are gone. Now, that could have been salvaged with some X-Men trying to escape Asgard over the Bifrost, and watching that play out. But letting them each have their own choice was what Loki denied them in the first place.
As for Rahne, you know that creepy feeling about Illyana being the new Enchantress? Rahne is younger, and was probably only in Asgard 1-2 months by the time Frog Thor arrived, and she’s already pregnant with her litter. I understand the story beat, but that’s not a great move. BTW, the real Enchantress is stuck in Illyana’s Limbo, and I’m sure that wouldn’t come back to bite her later.
Now let me say, I liked Dani’s arc from Valkyrie to the new Hela, Sam (the son of a Kentucky miner) becoming king of mining Dwarves, Doug as royal advisor, Kurt in the Warriors Three, and Storm as queen. And I was surprised to read some early Marvel comics showing plenty of crossover to Asgard by the Hulk and Dr Strange, so they’ve been doing things like this from the early years and I’m good with it.
So again, both things are true. I love this story and art (except for whatever the heck Jean is wearing in that panel!), and it drives me crazy when I think about it. And honestly, that actually means it’s a great What If! It’s about firing the imagination and going to new places with these characters. If it makes me think that much, even unintentionally, it did its job.
Wow, I didn’t know I could channel Ward Hill Terry. Better put that genie back in the bottle, and thank you and Solko for an excellent episode!
You are dead on with many of these points! It’s often the best stories that give us the most to chew on. There are a few points that could’ve been explained better or been less creepy in general. One thing which could greatly resolve some of my issues is a clearer sense of how much time was passing after the characters make the big decision. Was that big battle months or years after they chose to stay?
My shot at a No-Prize: It’s the magical nature of Asgard suppressing Rogue’s ability rather than the nature of Asgardians themselves. Why her are her powers affected when other mutants aren’t? Loki tinkered with nature to increase the drama behind the big choice. It increased the angst for Rogue and potential guilt for those who want to leave.
I have never read these “What If” issues, although the “Asgard Wars” just might be my ultimate happy place in comics. It makes me wonder whether my love of that particular storyline makes me more or less inclined to seek out the “What If” version. I do think that the ideas of Nightcrawler being in the Warriors Three, Rogue marrying Fandral, and Storm taking over from Thor would work. And at least, Doug Ramsey might live a little longer in this timeline. And I always like it when Frog Thor or Throg show up.
Excellent show, Shag and Solko.
Fabulous work gentlemen. Like Super Captain, I’ve never read these issues, but the X-Men Asgard saga is way up there in my affections. Particularly the New Mutants Special. If it’s X-related, late ’80s/early ’90s and features Art Adams, I’m there.
Two things:
i) If the network is too stacked with dorky DC nerds to mount a cool kids X-Men draft, just fire up Cerebro and I will, of course, answer the call.
ii) I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this OHOTMU disrespect simply will not stand. It’s a far superior offering to Who’s Who and I am willing to testify to that under oath – an oath that I will, incidentally, swear on OHOTMU. For ’tis the Bible of my people.
Aww! My two Gallifrey buds!!!
This was a fun episode and it makes me want to add even more comics on my “to read” pile (digital or otherwise.) I was a huge fan of What If? Volume 1 and issue #36 is a true favorite of mine for all the reasons that were mentioned in the episode. However, as a fan of Nova the Human Rocket (and yes, I call him “Nova the Human Rocket,”) I don’t appreciate his back up story getting mocked by our hosts. I’ll have to re-read it, but Nova is one of those “sacred cows” to me like the Champions or Alpha Flight who were thankfully mentioned in the recap of the second What If? issue. What can I say? I’m a true comic book nerd and I prove it all the time by trying to convince others that Torpedo and Paladin and Razorback are top tier characters that just need the right book to showcase their greatness. Thanks for another fun episode or, like Rich Rider would say, “Blue Blazes!”
I for one will not tolerate any Razorback disrespect.
Man I think the FF would have been different if this version had lasted longer. I mean Ben was checking out Sue’s Butt imagine if they had run into Namor.