On this episode of Peace Bound and Down: A Wonder Woman Podcast, Sean is joined by Ross Aitken from Opal City Confidential, to discuss issue 15 of volume two of Wonder Woman. The book enters a new era with a bit more focus on super heroics. Meet the new Silver Swan! Is she going to be one of Diana’s greatest enemies? Does she have the most Bronze Age origin story ever? And what is up with those opening pages of Diana dreaming of Superman. That’s a spicy meatball!
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- Promos:
- Once Upon a Geek
Bringing a little peace to man’s world each month.
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Great episode! I enjoyed Ross as a guest quite a bit.
Re: your airplane story–so you see green as brown, Sean? So when you watch MASH, is everyone in shades of brown? Fascinating.
In the 1980s, (my personal golden age of comics), the Mt Rushmore of comic artists for me were John Byrne, Frank Miller, Walt Simonsen, and George Perez. As in, if any of them were on a book, I would start buying that book because they were on it. Perez tended to do books I was already reading (Avengers, JLA, etc) but I never would bought, say, RONIN if had not been a Frank Miller project. And while I occasionally bought a FF or Thor, my years longs run with those books started and ended with those creators’ involvement.
Ditto Wonder Woman. I enjoyed the series, but when Perez left, so did I.
Re: Batman and Lois–the only time I ever even thought of that as t thing was in the World’s Finest animated movie, where Dana Delaney’s Lois flirted with Bruce. I think Bruce is too emotionally stunted for someone like Lois, but it’s fun to ship them.
Re: Re: that Luthor story where he wrecks that waitress’s life just for kicks. I remember reading that and wow did that hit harder. Robbing banks with a giant robot is one thing, but this Luthor was just a huge dick.
Once again, you’ve done it!
Man, did Engelheart run that FF into the ground. So much weirdness there. And you know I have a soft spot for the off-kilter line-ups, but this was just disastrous.
Have you been arrested, Sean from AZ? Is that a forthcoming story?
SO is the Hulk brown to you? I’m not up on how colorblindness works (or doesn’t as it were…)
Don’t have Mount Rushmore of golden age comic artists . But I have bin reading golden age comics
Let’s play game let’s
Here’s the comics I’ve bought print on demand copy’s so can so physical copies for reviews and you can read this stuff on online .
Let’s see if you’ve read any of them
Wham comics 1&2 (centaur comics .)
Big shot comic issue 50 (look at the cover that’s why picked it .)
Daredevil issues 5& 14 (les Gleason )
Have you read any of the comics consider this part 1 of my secret question part 2 is which of these based on cover which two comics would you hand to wonder if she wanted to read non dc or marvel comics ?
As Star Trek and fan of Gary 7
He got his own comic series done as what a tv show would bin like and appeared in serval Star Trek books just in you want look up a Gary 7
Great discussion. Was listening to the show driving in but could see the cover in my mind vividly. So perfect. And I didn’t realize the Silver Swan was so new a villain. I count her among the big bads in Diana’s rogues gallery.
I really don’t think Superman and Wonder Woman should be a couple for all the things Byrne/Perez said. The New 52 SM/WW book was soooo weird. They really seemed to like shagging each other. But there were no interactions that made me think ‘these two belong together’. Glad that went away.
Secret questions I remember –
1) Paul Levitz use of the A plot, B plot, C plot mode of writing. Always 2 subplots percolating. When A plot done, everything shifts up and a new C plot begun. The Levitz/Giffen Legion is a master class in this.
2) Backdoor pilot in comics – I feel like the Omega Men’s introduction in Marv’s run on Green Lantern was definitely him pitching the space team book. Them guesting in his Teen Titans cements the idea!
Great show as always!
Really enjoyed this episode guys!
Sean, I am agree with you on Englehart’s run on FF. I tried it during the Inferno crossover and yes, it was just a Mantis story. However, I am happy to say there is more Simonson FF than you thought. His run started with issue 334 and ended with 354. Not a looong run, but more than double of what you had thought!
As for my Mt. Rushmore of comic artists from my personal golden age, let’s say 1987 to 1990, ages 12 to 15:
Walt Simonson- X-Factor
Marc Silvestri- Uncanny X-Men
Jon Bogdanove- Power Pack
Norm Breyfogle- Detective Comics
I am agreeing, NOT “I am agree”!
Blimey, this issue was packed. I liked the very manly Soloman Buchanan, but that Arcade lookalike Skeeter LaRue, my word he was annoying, glad he faded away. The new Silver Swan had a great visual in a male gaze – and probably male gays – kinda way, but I didn’t like that she was such a victim. At least the original Silver Swan made her own choices. And don’t get me started on Vanessa.. in fact, sign me up for that episode!
Diana’s dream was beautifully drawn, but we shouldn’t have seen her in it, it should’ve been visualised through her eyes, as dreams go. Also, it wasn’t very sexy, so many clothes!
As regards the first secret question, I’m with Sean, I really miss Bronze Age soap opera shenanigans such as secret identity nonsense, and B and C plots – something in that line I’d love to see come back is the Traitor Within The Legion/Titans trope.
As regards the third (?) secret question, I didn’t quite get what Ross was talking about, did The Wild Wild West TV show get a pilot in How the West Was Won?
Gosh, I so disagree with Ross, I find the post-Crisis Penguin a dead duck, as dull as dishwater. Yes, the original was silly, but he was such fun – the nasty gangster is less interesting. I also don’t like the Zatanna we got in Justice League Dark, with fishnet arms – all the charm of the original, enog.
Oh dear, aren’t I the contrary Mary? Let’s be positive. The post-Crisis Circe was a big improvement on the pre-Crisis version – better visual, excitingly mercurial personality. (Now, please, everyone disagree so I don’t feel bad about moaning about Pengy and Lex.)
Batman and Lois did team up recently, in Detective Comics 1103, if you check it out – it’s brilliant. I could never see them as a romantic pairing, though.
Anyway, thanks for another fine episode, Ross is always such a great podcasting partner.
Another fine show! I love the Silver Swan storyline. Perez had already brought new energy to Cheetah and reintroduced Ares. Perez did such an outstanding job assembling an interesting Rogues’ Gallery.
My Mt. Rushmore of artists? My Golden Age of comics was probably around 1978-1987ish and my favorites from that era are Perez, Art Adams, and Bill Sienkiewicz (primarily for his New Mutants run). Neal Adams (already a legend by the time that I started reading comics) and Gary Frank round (my favorite contemporary artist) out my all-time top 5.
Add me to the list of fans who really don’t like Superman and Wonder Woman being a couple, especially after DC had established Clark and Lois being married for a while. In terms of couples who never were who we would like to have seen, I would have to say Kitty Pryde and Doug Ramsey. I identified w/ Doug as a young teen and Kitty was just about every nerd’s comic book girlfriend. She was surely mine.
I forget the exact secret question, but I had to laugh when Ross answered “Zatanna” and Sean answered “Vixen”. Somewhere Dale Gunn is smiling.
Again, my wife and I thank you for the podcast.
Superman and Wonder Woman probably Should not be a couple because they eventually would realize they are too similar. Possibly the same for Batman and Lois Lane. The Thing and the Invisible Girl would have been interesting, at least if they did it before Franklin. Starfire and Speedy would have been Fun at least when Wolfman and Perez were still on the Titans.
This is probably a coincidence, but it’s now up to 3 times. I’ve been reading some Wonder Woman volume 1 along with The Huntress Podcast’s coverage of her backup stories in those WW issues. The second Cheetah, the Silver Swan, and Hercules walking on Paradise Island, all happening during that era of WW volume 1. I had no inkling of that when reading this volume back in the day, and I’m not sure what it means, but it’s curious.
I think my favorite part of this issue is the fact Diana doesn’t know anything about Silver Swan. The setup for this fight completely blindsides her, and she still has no answers in this issue. I forget how long that goes on, but it’s fascinating to see the protagonist honestly being secondary to the story. Her fame and actions have made her a target, and she’s having to play catch up the whole time. It’s a twist that I’m enjoying.
So Sean, what I’m hearing from your story is when the Hulk changed from green to grey, your reaction was “uh, what are they talking about?”
I forgot to include “stealth pilot” favorites. From TV, there was an episode of the Brady Bunch which featured friends of the Bradys, a husband and wife, where the parents adopted two boys the same age as their biological son. The twist was while the family was Caucasian, one adopted son was Black and the other AAPI. The boys called themselves the Three Musketeers, and even changed the facial color in their copy of the book to match the boys. The Bradys were barely in the episode, and that’s the earliest version of a “stealth pilot” I could think of.
For comics, the pilot-that-should-have-been was the issue of Amazing Spider-Man where the Toad, Frog-Man, and Spider-Kid all fought each other for the honor of being Spidey’s sidekick, then leave off together to form a new team: The Misfits! Oh, if only it had happened.
Speaking of Bronze Age romances, I really got caught up on the Firestorm crush on Power Girl during the JLA/JSA team ups.
It never really got a chance to grow much because of Crisis on Infinite Earths, but I remain hopeful that maybe at some point they will pick it up.
But I think in current times they have a larger age gap which probably might complicate things.
Great show, Sean and Ross. That sounds weird. Anyway, great discussion. This is a terrific issue. I agree the the first few pages are so well done, Perez’s storytelling and incredible attention to detail and emotion is perfectly captured here. The cover is gorgeous as well. I liked the 70s cloak and dagger style storytelling to this issue. It was like Three Days of the Condor with more perms. Probably the one thing that bugged me about the issue was when the agency is admiring the giant Wonder Woman poster/sign, they’re walking all over it with shoes on! Mindy is wearing heels! What’s this thing made of? The Kapatelis family continues to annoy. Why does Vanessa talk like she grew up on Yancey Street? Julia is apparently in Greece at the moment, probably using an olive oil production company to launder money or something.
Regarding romances that haven’t or won’t happen: Superman and Zatanna. Every time they team up there’s a fun almost flirty nature to it. Way better fit than Batman/Zatanna.
Favorite post-crisis villain re-vamps: Brainiac. He was basically green (or some may say brown) Luthor in tiny shorts, then goes thru a couple bad Byrne concepts before becoming a terrifying soulless AI.
My favorite Bronze Age trope was probably the dismissal of anyone being knocked unconscious as merely being stunned. What a great way to wave off potential head injuries. The NFL basically adopted that Bronze Age logic for 50 years!
Oh, that’s good romance notes, Brett! One I keep thinking about is Batman and Black Canary. In volume 1 JLA, there was 1-2 issues where the two of them were working alone, and the vibes were intense! But abruptly dropped to return to the Green Arrow romance. With Black Canary, not Batman. (Hmm, Batman and Green Arrow. Hmmm.)