It’s the tremendous twelfth episode of WHO’S WHO REVIEW! Shag and Rob take a fresh look at classic entries from Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe, featuring Brainwave Jr., Doctor Destiny, Glorious Godfrey, Golden Age Green Lantern, Deathstroke the Terminator, Queen Bee, Vigilante, and more! Plus we cover YOUR feedback!
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Dead stupid fun show, Uncles Rob and Shag. After months of recovery from a broken wrist, I am finally back to doing my early morning bike rides again, and this was a perfect audio distraction from my annoying wrist brace. Thank you very much.
A few random thoughts I had while listening to this episode…
BRAINWAVE JR,: Another “mentioned mutant” in the DC Universe was Jericho, introduced as such by her mother in TALES OF THE NEW TEEN TITANS #44. Nightwing’s later response: “A mutant, eh? Well, we’ve got aliens, witches, shape-changers, and cyborgs. So why not a mutant? ‘Sides, I hear you guys aren’t half bad…”
DOCTOR DESTINY: Yes, he started out as the “gravity guy” in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #5. The anti-gravity discs mentioned in the entry were used by the Doctor to impersonate Green Lantern (sewing the discs in his fake GL costume in order to fly) and infiltrate the Justice League so he can trap them, then they wouldn’t stand in his way of becoming the ultimate master thief. And yes, that means Destiny had located the secret location of the League’s secret sanctuary, but the League obviously didn’t care since the Doctor wasn’t the Joker…
Destiny had two more appearances as “the dream guy” in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #19 and #34. Then he was gone for 13 years, showing up 120 issues later in his “Skeletor-before-there-was-a-Skeletor form” in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #154.
GREEN LANTERN I: The “Starheart retcon” story was published in GREEN LANTERN (GREEN ARROW) #111 and #112, which guest starred Alan Scott. The story was originally planned to be a “Green Lantern Spectacular” issue of DC SPECIAL SERIES, which was cancelled by the DC Implosion. Maybe Uncle Paul can cover this story on DC SPECIALCAST if he ever plans to cover “DC Almost-Specials That Were Almost Something Special”…
NEPTUNE PERKINS: Mike Clark’s layout of the art looks like the entry intended to stack the Neptune Perkins “logo” as two lines of text to place in the upper-left corner. I suppose the editor who gave Mr. Clark the artwork size specs expected more text than they got…
RANN: I would have expected the planetary maps to contain labels for the continents, or at least point out the locations of the city-states of Ranagar, Pagathann, Zared, and Yardana…
Alan Moore’s depiction of Adam Strange catching a Zeta Beam in a public toilet was definitely quirky, but I expected Uncle Rob to mention “the most impartant port” of Alan Moore’s Rann story in SWAMP THING #57-58: It retconned Adam Strange’s purpose on Rann to be essentially breeding stock to facilitate the reproductive survival of Rann’s population, which had grown increasingly sterile, and Adam had no idea that Sardath was manipulating Adam in this way. While it was not stated, I’d like to think that Alanna, one of the few fertile women on the planet, was not aware of this either (though she kept checking whether she was pregnant every morning), because that would mean that the loving relationship between Adam and Alanna was genuine, even if the circumstances behind it was manipulated by Sardath. In any case, it’s clear that Adam wasn’t the only one “working so hard to get laid”…
That story also retconned the Rannian public’s perception of Adam Strange, not as a brilliant thinking hero but a “throwback ape” because he comes from a comparatively primitive planet…
THE TERMINATOR: It’s interesting that Uncle Shag mentioned that this cool character became “overexposed” since the 1990s. Reading the entry, it seemed as if Slade Wilson’s story in the TITANS comic had come to a natural end…
THE RANDOMIZER: Yes, I went through my Dad’s collection of Jack Kirby comics to see if I can find people that looked similar to Uncle Rob and Uncle Shag, and I found them in a few issues of CAPTAIN VICTORY, along with abstract machinery and art designs that worked to create the Randomizer’s appearance and the “totally random” surprint. It’s nice to know that Uncle Shag’s “Kirby avatar” looks like David Ace Gutierrez; that means I can do a Kirby-esque Katana Banana entry…
And I am working on more entries… for XUM’S WHO Volume III, when I am able.
Katana Banana!!! Bwah-hah-hah-ha-ha!!!!
The resemblance to me is purely coincidental and is not indicative of the writing campaign to have me replace Shag on all his shows. I won’t comment on this any further.
If you do a KB entry, I can forward you all the HR complaints made against The Defendant (we call him “Shagg”). It’ll take you a few years to sift through all of them, and I’m still having to make regular payments due to the class action suit.
Also, there’s no evidence the experimental “Katana Banana Shake 2” killed anyone. NONE. Isolated cases every one.
No one died? What about Andy Ape (See Angel Andy Ape)?
Didn’t say nobody died. I said the shake wasn’t directly responsible legally speaking.
Awesome show! I’m always happy to reach a month with 5 Sundays! It’s a great reason to wake up on a Sunday but stay in bed.
How “random is it that the two Captains in this installment are literally Captains. Not only that, their names are literally their names. Captain Compass and Captain Storm.
It’s also very random that you’d get Deathstroke the Terminator the very week DC launched him in a new series. Your podcast is now influencing DC to do things before the episodes are even released. That’s true power. There is a modern Mego of Deathstroke. He does indeed come with several weapons for you to lose. I think they even made a website exclusive where the weapons are “pre lost” so you don’t need to waste your time losing them yourself.
I like to believe in some DC/Marvel Amalgam Universe Neptune and Namor teamed up for an aquatic detective agency called McKenzie & Perkins P.I.s
I also wonder if the aliens that kidnapped the dude ftom Flock of Seagulls came from Rann that and he Rann so Far Away.
Just a random thought.
Not going to lie. I needed this show. It has made me exceptionally happy. Some thoughts.
Did Shag really just spoil a major plot point from the Alan Scott series? That reveal was huge and he just blurted it out. I’d care more but the world is on fire at the moment.
Captain Compass isn’t Murder She Wrote. It’s another CBS series. It’s the NCIS of the fifties.
In the original series Shag mentioned Damn Yankees and The Traveling Wilburys and Rob was made up that Shag referenced the group. Now there is a bit of umbrage. Time is a funny thing.
Because I’m on another relisten of the original series because the world is on fire and it takes my mind off this terrible timeline I’ve been thinking that as much as love the revue show I do kind of miss the times when Rob and Shag would start “arguing” about something small. Thanks to the Chlorophyll Kid entry we got a little bit of that old spark back. Same with the return of Shag’s “And then this happened”’ justifiable criticism. Made me legit happy.
As many people will have already mentioned, the Justice League America storyline was Destiny’s Hand.
Would it have been Ostrander that thought to use Glorious Godfrey or would it have been Len Wein, who plotted the series? It could have been either one but I know curious.
Also, minor correction. While Jeff and I did cover Legends on FCtC my main coverage was on Views From the Longbox. It was a fun series that I had a ton of guests on, which included Chris Frankin, Ryan Daly, Rob Kelly, and (checks notes) some guy named Shag.
(Fun fact about that series. It was voted “Why The Hell is This Thing So Effing Long” at the 2017 Podcast Awards show. My prize was a comfy pillow because it’s what you need to listen to the whole thing. It’s kind of like the Zack Snyder version of Justice League but not as dour and I didn’t have women singing a weird ass song for no discernible reason. I decided to cut that out.)
Alan Scott has become my favorite Green Lantern. Kyle will always be a favorite but between the Sleepers novel from a few years back and the more recent mini series that Shag mentioned he just kept to the top. Rob is right. His costume shouldn’t work and it does.
The Superboy/Batman team up happened in the later days of Brave and the Bold.
Fun fact about Neptune Perkins…his origin as revealed in the Young All-Stars was originally going to be Roy Thomas’ origin for the Earth-2 Aquaman (who totally existed) but the Crisis happened, so it was ported over to Perkins.
James Cameron did have to give credit to Harlan Ellison after a lawsuit because Cameron mentioned that one of his inspirations for Terminator was an Outer Limits episode. So there was a credits thing, just not DC related.
Also a lot of the Wolfman characters had incredibly dense histories despite being relatively recent. It’s good to be a best selling writer. Ask Geoff Johns.
There are other Vigilantes?
Why?
1. so many thoughts Gardener fox would have read a LOT OF stories with anti-gravity metal i mean the idea goes back to at least Buck RODGERS AND i think there’s a conan doyle story (not sure) but of course doctor Destinty has anti-grav disk
2 do they ever explain why he’s Skeletor now?
3 it bugged me on the jla cartoon that superman was more bothered by sleep powers than Batman? Why Batman never sleeps you’d think dOCTOR Destiny would REALLY MESS UP BATMAN!
4. IT never even occurred to young Rob that superheroes were ever funny ON PURPOSE Naturally I pitched a deadly serious Legion of sub heroes i Think my champions chracter Ripshot showed up. (he was basicaly Punisher with lasers and of couse as a dc pitch Superman showed up. What’s the point of pitching DC WITH NO SUPERMAN?
5. Ironicly there WAS NO point in pitching dc as they did’nt send rejection letters
On question 2, Dr Destiny lost the ability to dream due to a shrink implanting a hypnotic suggestion to stop him using his mental powers: ‘ “BY THE END OF MY PRISON TERM, I’D COMPLETELY WASTED AWAY! I LOST MY HAIR, MY SKIN TURNED WAXY WHITE, MY BODY SHRIVELED!”
(Pardon the shouty upper case, I copied it from a screen grab of the JLA 154 page as I was too lazy to type it up.)
Well, I have to say, I’m absolutely flabbergasted that during your little digression about heroes who have a skylight for hair on their cowls or headpieces, Shag did not mention one of the most obvious examples: Firestorm!!! And he got so hot in that costume that his hair burst into flames!
Otherwise, great show; I agree that you had some really gorgeous art in the entries this time, with Brainwave Jr. and Deathstroke being my personal favorites. As for the Rann entry, yes, I agree some more attention should have been accorded to Infantino’s lovely imagery, and I agree with Isamu that some of the notable cities and regions should have been marked on the continents.
Regarding Alan Scott when I was a kid I didn’t know about earth 1 & 2 I just thought Green Lantern & Flash had different costumes when they were younger ( All Star Squadron). In Grant Morrison’s run on JLA he updated Queen Bee like he did with Starro & The Key , she was more insect looking.
Always great to listen to some Who’s Who goodness!
I don’t know if it was mentioned that Brainwave Jr. is also the nephew of Star-Spangled Kid Sylvester Pemberton and also the first boyfriend of Jade in Infinity Inc.
The entry for Dr. Destiny says that extended use of the materioptikon caused him to lose his hair, his skin to turn waxy, and his body to shrivel. The bald head and skull-like face are obvious. But he doesn’t look “shriveled” to me. He’s built like an NFL wide receiver or a WWE superstar. And yes, that gesture with his left hand does look as if he’s giving someone really tall a fist bump.
Alan Scott has long been my favorite GL, but he now has strong competition from Jessica Cruz. Like her, I have struggled with an anxiety disorder and so I identify with her in that way.
Finally, I wanted to share a story from my local comic shop. I buying my books a couple of weeks ago when I heard another customer asking about the Handbooks that Image is doing for their Ghost Machine titles. He mentioned that these handbooks will have variant covers that pay homage to Who’s Who and also OHOTMU. I told him that those were some of my favorite comics as well and then I asked if he had heard of the Who’s Who podcast. He was interested so I told him about your network. So hopefully you have a new listener.
P. S. I come from roughly the same part of the country as Chris Franklin and I prefer the term “hillbilly”. Or if you must “Appalachian-American”. Looking forward to May!
I haven’t complained to you in a while, so here goes. Regarding Hawkman in Mystery In Space; he didn’t have his own series at the time. A quick perusal of Mike’s Amazing World site shows that it seems editor Julie Schwartz was trying to boost his appearances, which led to his own title soon thereafter. Shag, you may tell Rob he was wrong.
Now to pick on Shag. As usual, when there is a character in Who’s Who that appeared for forty-odd years in stories Shag has (still) never read, he’s rather dismissive. However, when there is an entry that features a character from some of Shag’s favorite books from the 1990s, he becomes his own bad Who’s Who entry. i.e., “Oh, this guy was in that issue that I read! And then they di this with him, and then this happened and then this happened and then this happened!” I can hear Rob’s eyeballs rolling.
Isamu, of course, already explained the late-70s “Starheart” retcon regarding Green Lantern. For those who like to listen to podcasts about such things, Keith G! Baker and I talked with Billy D. about it on the Magazines and Monsters podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/magazines-and-monsters-ep-126-green-lantern-111-112/id1459643898?i=1000721158574
Of course, you both look awesome in the entry for The Randomizer! Xum and Isamu; PBTN!
Yeah, but it’s funny when Shag does “and then this happened.” He’s so enthusiastic.
I can hear Rob’s eyeballs rolling
Terry, you need some earplugs for your concerts, because you are hearing things! I appreciate when Shag brings something a little more current to the listings, because all my references stop around 1990.
No mention of the Planetary Chance Machine?
It’s always a blast to see a new Who’s Who episode on the docket.
This is slightly off topic, but since it concerns the DCU I’d thought I would post it here.
With a new Firestorm miniseries on the horizon, can we expect Shag to offer his comments? Also, is Rob reading the current Aquaman run? I’m still getting the book each month & I wonder what Rob thinks about this incarnation of Arthur Curry & company.
Keep up the great work!
Another great episode! As I was wrapping up listening to it, I could hear my wife singing along to the theme song in the other room. She knows that Who’s Who Review listens are a big deal for me.
Whatever Happened To…?
• Brainwave, Jr.: Brainwave was recruited by Black Adam to fight the JSA during Black Reign. It was revealed the reason he broke bad in Extreme Justice was because he was possessed by Mr. Mind. He’s pretty much retired now. A version of Henry was used seen in the various Earth-2 series during the New 52.
• Captain Compass: Captain Compass had a one-panel flashback appearance in Black Lighting: Cold Dead Hands. His grandson, Martin, is part of a detective team consisting of him, Roy Raymond III, Sandra Bradley (granddaughter of Slam), and Cathy Saunders (granddaughter of Speed Saunders and cousin of Hawkgirl) for their podcast All Things Impossible… But True. They are helping Bruce Wayne track down Jewish artwork that his grandfather was trying to safekeep from the Nazis during WWII, but was secretly stolen when his ship – The Odyssey – was destroyed.
• Captain Storm: During a timey-wimey adventure to Dinosaur Island, Superman and Son discovered that Captain Storm was the last surviving member of The Losers (living in a cave very similar to Johnny Cloud’s in New Frontier). They were able to rescue him and bring him to the present, where he is wandering the country, figuring out where a loser like him now belongs.
• Chlorophyll Kid: Ral was last seen in the previous Justice Society of America series where the Subs traveled back in time to stop a young Mordru. With the Legion of Super-Heroes re-launching later this year, I’m sure he’ll pop back up.
• Doctor Destiny: John Dee was recently the main bad in the Knight Terrors event where the heroes had to combat their worst nightmares when the entire world was put to sleep. It was all orchestrated by Amanda Waller, who was slowly but surely building public opinion against costumed heroes (which culminated in Absolute Power).
• Glorious Godfrey: He was just part of the last New Gods series, where he was serving the remains of Darkseid’s Elite trying to capture and pervert the herald of the next generation of Gods. They were thwarted by the refugees of New Genesis.
• Green Lantern: Besides the annual Pride anthologies, Alan is in the current JSA series – which is fantastic (it just finished JSA: Year One, Part 1 and are going into the Hunt for The Spectre). Along with Jay Garrick, he is seen as the elder statesman of the hero community. At this point, they have been working as superheroes longer than anyone else in the DCU. Oh, they reverted it back to Alan always operating out of Gotham.
• I.Q.: When last seen, Ira fell victim to JLA villain Prometheus who used him and then tricked him into consuming a “dumb” drink that erased all his intelligence. But since this happened in *shudder* JLA: Cry for Justice, it might be moot at this point: almost everything that series did has been reverted (thank goodness).
• Neptune Perkins: Perkins became a US Senator for Hawaii. He was estranged from his ex, Tsunami, but seemed to have a good relationship with their daughter, Deep Blue/Indigo. (Ironically, she couldn’t leave the water, almost a reverse of her father.) He died during Infinite Crisis when he was bitten in half by The Shark and his arm was eaten by King Shark. Sadly, this happened right in front of his daughter.
• Queen Bee: She was last seen in the pages of Shazam! trying to seduce The Captain (Zeus apparently contributed his power and his libido to the Elders of Shazam!) but was stopped by Mary Marvel.
• Rann: Poor Rann. It is consistently the brunt of all interstellar action. If there is any kind of war going on, somehow Rann is involved. Rannians have been at war with Thanagarians so many times, it’s hard to know if they have ever actually been at peace, and most of the time it’s because one, the other, or both are being manipulated by some cosmic baddie. It has literally been moved to at least two different star systems, with catastrophic devastation each time. It was last seen under the threat of Phantom Zone criminal Jax-Ur in the pages of Action Comics. (It should also be noted that Adam Strange no longer Zeta Beams to and from Earth. He finally figured out he could catch a lift from someone else, so he now resides there permanently.)
[Aside: last year at a Comic Con, I asked current Green Lantern writer Jeremy Adams to please give Rann, Thanagar, and the Vega System a break. Space is supposed to be big.]
• Terminator: Deathstroke just started a new ongoing series last week. It is his 6th series, plus he’s been part of most major events (Infinite Crisis, Dark Crisis, etc.) He has a irrational pull towards the various Titans iterations. It seems to be the only time he works without a contract. (Jericho’s name is Joseph, BTW).
• Vigilante: Since the Adrian Chase series in the 1980s, there have been several other Vigilantes. Pat Trayce had a connection to Deathstroke. Justin Powell was killed during Infinite Crisis. Adeline Wilson tried to get her kids back from the Titans as Vigilante. Then her brother, Dorian Chase, took over the roll. The last person was Donald Fairchild, who operated in the Southland part of LA. (Greg Saunders went out shooting in the intro to Grant Morrison’s Seven Soldiers. It was also revealed that at some point, he had become a werewolf.)
You’re right Jeff: “Space is big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
Wow the randomizer looks like podcast Mr miracle would listen to going by that art .
Here’s.my top three and why .
3. Golden age green lantern (I become more familiar with him through recent years via the JSA podcast and and reading the justice Society comics why he was a member for a while.)
2. Chlorophyll kid. ( why is number two because I’ve seen him an animation and frankly he’s a try hard. He can’t control plants like poison ivy. He can just make plans grow fast, but he tries and he doesn’t give up and for a hero. That’s something special. I’m he literally says in the cartoon, I just make plants grow fast.)
And finally coming in number 1
1. Captain Storm . (I’ve got the losers on my list of books to check out especially now that I know there is a dog on the team. )
Also shag have you seen a British comedy show called only fools and horses .
I’m thinking you have Brit box if you do watch the episode hero’s and villains and series one episodes big brother and the Russians are coming .
I think if you haven’t . I think you’ll enjoy it .
Also here’s a secret question could make a mini seres of three comics staring my top three characters using the randomizer in some way and if so and how and what would the steam be called and who would be the big bad ?
Rann & Zeta Beam-related! In a superhero RPG campaign I ran, there was a guy who would show up irregularly AND usually late.
He wanted a rocketpack guy, so I told him he was related somehow to Adam Strange. The Zeta Beam gave me a great reason to have him suddenly pop up in the middle of the action (or non-action) with the rest of the group, and pass on the burden to explain what was going on to the rest of the players…
Deathstroke the Terminator-related — I thought he was so cool when he first appeared and throughout the New Teen Titans run. And then I started to feel he was a bit overused, and got really bummed when they gave him regeneration powers. I really liked the idea that he was this ambitious, perfectionist, driven kinda soldier whose weakness was him choosing his career/professional persona constantly over his family. These days, I feel like we’ve kind of lost that part of his character; always liked it when his tie to the Titans wasn’t just revenge but because one of his kids was tangled up with them.
Good show gentlemen, as always. Just a few random thoughts I had while listening.
Back in the day, I would write letters to the comics, some of which were even printed. DC must have thought they they were, at least, cogent; because out of the blue they sent me a photostatic copy of Legends number 1 to read and review. So I was one of the first people to see Amanda Waller, as well as the post crisis Wonder Woman and Justice League and Glorious Godfrey. I still have that copy today.
My review appeared in the completed copy of issue 1.
Dr. Destny’s materioptican made the jump to the big screen, where it was reimagined as the Dreamstone in the Wonder Woman 1984 movie.
In an earlier show there was speculation that DC might do a new version of Who’s Who to better reflect the changes made with the New History of the DC Universe. While I can’t say for sure it won’t happen, that seems increasingly unlikely. DK Publishing just released volumn 5 of the official DC Dictionary, now accurate up to the end of Absolute Power. It looks like those dictionarys are the closest we’re gonna get. I don’t know if you’d want to cover them on here. Not sure if they have any illustrations.
The DK Encyclopedias from DK are frustrating at best.
They are sporadic in who they cover and how much coverage they give. For example in the 4th edition: The Golden Age Green Lantern has his own entry – under Scott, Alan; Wildcat gets a quarter-page – with the most prominent image of the New 52 Earth-2 version (who never went by the name Wildcat!); Ted Knight, Will Payton, & Jack Knight get a one-page entry as Starman I, II, III (with footnote images at the bottom showing all the others who have been Starman – completely invalidating the erroneous I, II, III title); and Jay Garrick is a footnote in the two-page Flash entry.
I think the biggest criteria for getting an entry (of any size) is the alphabetical name of the character. “We need characters between the two-page spread of Aquaman and the full page listing of Arsenal. So, let’s put all the following on one page: Architect, Arak, Ares, Arion, Arisia, And Amadeus Arkham. Oh, and let’s give Arak a quarter page and jam the other 5 in around him.”
Forget about continuity. They mix-and-match which versions of characters are featured. For example: There are Legionnaire entries from all versions mixed together (original, 5YL, Reboot, Threeboot, Retroboot, & Bendisboot); Black Condor is listed as Marcus Robbins of Earth 10, Black Condor II is Ryan Kendall, and there is no mention of Richard Gray; And some are listed as “II” or “III” with no reference to the character(s) who came before (i.e. Agent II or Thunder III).
You could argue that DC continuity is all over the place and it’s hard to pin down. I’d say that’s fair, but at least try for some internal consistency.
The original edition in 2004 was written by Scott Beatty, Robert Greenberger, Phil Jimenez, and Dan Wallace. The 4th edition (2021) was written by Matt Manning, Stephen Wiacek, Melanie Scott, Nick Jones, and Landry Q. Walker (though they give credit to writers of previous editions for any of their material that was left in). No disrespect to the newer writers, but they simply don’t have the institutional knowledge of DC and its characters that the original edition did.
(Also, I swear the image used for Monster Boy in the Appendix is from the fan website CosmicTeams.com.)
So I would much rather they release a legitimate Who’s Who series that can give us actual entries about our beloved characters. Sorry to be so negative. I just don’t want people who are as into DC minutia as we are getting these and expecting Who’s Who quality material.
Of course, its I meant DC Encyclopedia. The Dictionary is another book entirely.
Oh, I expect your points are fair, Jeff, I stopped buying the DC books because they became such a random load of pish.
Still only partway through and enjoying it immensely as always, but “I got words.”
1. Doctor Destiny looks like Skeletor? NO, SIR! Skeletor looks like Dr. Destiny! Never forget! Hydrox came first!
2. Favorite Green Lantern? Tomar-Re, because he got the GL Corps Medal of Honor for failing to save Krypton, but managing to save Superman. Also, he was just a solid dude. Second favorite? Arkiss Chummuck (sp?), because he consumes the flesh of defeated enemies he respects as a tribute to them. He is very gallant, in his way. But Alan Scott in his boss Technicolor suit is a very strong third.
3. Mark Evanier said that Kirby based Glorious Godfrey on George Hamilton’s portrayal of Billy Graham. Graham later rejected his early anti-Semitic opinions and increased his distance from political figures, but I can see his point at the time.
4. You won’t read this in the “establishment” history books, but I’m pretty sure Hawkman’s attempt to colonize Mystery in Space was the real provocation for the Rann-Thanagar War. The stuff in the mini-series is what they want you to think.
Additional thoughts now that I’ve finished listening to the podcast:
5. Sector 8214? We’re in Sector 2814. You have to get this right. What if you called Guardians of the Universe Emergency Services and couldn’t give them your address? I mean, there are only 3600 sectors, so the Green Lantern on dispatch duty would probably be able to figure it out, but I wouldn’t want to take that chance. What if it were G’nort?
6. I thought Deathstroke was really interesting when he came out for all the reasons you list, but then they made him a child molester and later, a mass murderer who dropped Chemo on Bludhaven. I know there’ve been multiple reboots since then, but those crimes are eggs my mind hasn’t been able to unfry. I have the same problem with Lobo committing genocide by killing all other Czarnians. As characters, I just want them to go away now, and I won’t spend money on comics wherein they’re protagonists. I could say the same thing about Hal Jordan, but his turn at genocide was such a break from who the character was (like him or not), that it was easier for me to set it aside as an aberration. It probably made a difference that I had more invested in the character. I was very grateful for the Parallax entity retcon.
7. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Siskoid say his OHOTMU and Who’s Who-related podcasts are tributes to the podcast that made the network. Of course, I know he can’t say that publicly, as it violates union rules about encouraging Shag, so I hope he doesn’t mind that I repeated it. I always thought it was cool that there’s a family of podcasts (now including DC Secret Files) built around the OG DC Who’s Who podcast. They’re like the family of comic titles built around Batman Family characters, all because of what Bill Finger and Bob Kane started 87 years ago. Those podcasts are really a testament to how influential the show is.
All the best,
Captain Entropy
(who, like Mark Waid before me, is a Southern white guy who reads comics)
When Christopher Priest was writing Deathstroke, he made it clear that Slade never did anything with Terra, and that stories about them having a physical relationship were part of her mental instabilities. Not sure if that retcon makes the original stories and intent any better, though.
Funny you should mention Lobo. He and Deathstoke both started new series last week. Lobo is by Skottie Young (of I Hate Fairyland fame) & Jorge Corona and I actually enjoyed the first issue (I wasn’t expecting to). Deathstroke the Terminator by Tony Fleecs & Carmine de Giandomenico definitely seems to be playing up the job over personal angle.
That’s all good info, Jeff. Thank you! I love and respect Christopher Priest, so if anybody could pull that off, etc., but I’m doubtful. I’d still have to check it out and see if I was convinced.
Hydrox? An American cookie? What’s the connection?
Did Shag just compare Damn Yankees to the Travelling Wilburys?
And yet, I agreed with Shag when it came to the Young All-Stars. Great in concept! Its execution was…well, Thomasian. I’ll leave it at that.
The Karate Kid film (I call it Kid 1) did indeed have a credit referencing DC Comics.
Jim Aparo is the best! Agree with my bro Rob!
Another great show, gents. Love it when you get together to do these.
Thank you for another great show guys! Sticking to my position of a ‘one track mind’ commenter-
1) Chlorophyll Kid really got a chance to show off the effectiveness of his power during (Unsurprisingly) the Great Darkness Saga when he was stopping Daxamites by popping up redwoods in their faces. though I’ve always wondered what he could do with gut bacteria or at least someone who just ate a salad.
2) My line about ‘Southern White Guys who don’t read comics anyway’ was written LONG before I knew either of you lived in Florida and was more directed at the purported Southern White audience that kept black characters out of comics, TV and movies for the longest time. And whom still pop their heads up from time to time when the Big 2 write gay weddings or anything that makes them clutch their little handkerchiefs in an emotional fervor. I apologize if it seemed like I was calling you out because that wasn’t my intent.
3) Favorite Lantern? Kyle. Jordan has quit or broken the GLC too many times to be considered reliable. Hell, he was even written as unreliable for most of his career- couldn’t keep a job, show up on time, check a girl’s ID before sleeping with her to make sure she’s not underaged… Kyle was handed a job he didn’t ask for by a weird little blue dude behind a bar and he just ran with it. Hell, I’d put Charlie Vickers higher on my list of Earth GLs over Hal. Kyle, Stewart, Alan Scott are my top 3.
Who’s Who is the podcast that keeps on giving. It’s a podcast about a podcast about Who’s Who. I look forward to see what plans you come up with to keep this ball rolling for another 14 years.
One thing that caught my attention was during the feedback section. Shag, you mentioned you started collecting The Flash for the Firestorm backups, but didn’t read the main title until years later. I too picked up my first issue of The Flash (#290) because I saw another cool character on the bottom of the cover, also in yellow and red. My 9 year old brain was intrigued about why his head was on fire. While I definitely became a Firestorm fan, the Flash became my favorite hero of all time. I collected Flash comics from July 1980 until one year into the New 52, August 2012. Those 32 years went by really fast (pun intended).
b} I understand that heat exits from the top of the head, and as a Chromium Age kid, I am further aware that pop-tops are both figuratively & literally cooler than skullcaps. But does it really help that much to cover 87% of your body in super-hero materials but leave 50% of your head open? Like, whatever prompted you to be so ensconced in spandex would be as much if not more applicable to your brain-holding area, right? Could Brainwave Jr.’s psionics not effectively penetrate surface contact from a poly-cotton blend? Surely a worse weakness than “wood” would be “Fruit of the Loom,” though I can see the overlap. Finally, if anything is going to lose Extraordinary Ordway a pretty art competition, it would be rendering two flavors of Brainwave and a Merry Girl of 1,000 Gimmicks. I know there’s a comma, but it’s funnier without, and I can sing it to the tune of STP’s “Sour Girl.” Now I’m fan-casting peak era Sarah Michelle Gellar in a Jessica Biel Candy-wig as Merry.
“Hey, what are ya lookin’ at? She was a merry girl of 1,000 gehh-micks.”
cc} My introduction to Gray Morrow was Mark Hazzard: Merc, which would probably not have been his first choice, but I still dug it.
c.s} Again, owing to Who’s Editing, I’m now aware that Captain Storm had a whole-ass arc in Rebirth period Superman comics involving Dinosaur Island. Referencing our “all day” hang out with A.J. Wright that started at like 4 p.m., this Storm was basically a retread of John C. Reilly’s lost soldier in the previous year’s excellent movie Kong: Skull Island.
dd} Rudy Nebres is one of my all-time favorite cover artists, which is how I know that nothing else good came of the Archie Red Circle line, for all the times I wanted to buy issues with glorious Nebres covers and toilet paper interiors. I’m proud to own a couple of Nebres originals, which Shag openly admired that day we hung out with A.J. But I won’t excuse whatever was going on with Dr. Destiny’s left hand there. Anyway, Shag probably forgot about Dr. Destiny being a member of the first super-team that ever fought the JLA because in all of his earliest appearances, he was just a brown-haired guy in a business suit. The Skeletor bit didn’t start until the 1970s, so he could finally outshine former teammates like Monty Moran, the Getaway Mastermind (the first Martian Manhunter foe to appear in a JLA story.)
gg} “Comics weren’t always so political” says G. Gordon Liddy, convicted Watergate co-conspirator and right wing pundit, of his obviously being referenced in the form of a cosmic demagogue in a 1986 mini-series.
iq} Thankful that there’s no non-Who’s Who reference of I.Q. that would force me to ever cover him.
dtt} There being multiple comic book characters simply named “The Scarecrow” in wildly different contexts from numerous publisher is a good illustration of the difference between copyright and trademark. “Today… The Terminator” introduced “Deathstroke, the Terminator” in the first line of dialogue in the second issue of New Teen Titans in 1980. There had already been other guys named “Terminator” in comics and elsewhere, which is probably why Marv felt the need to expand the name right up front, but with the preference that Deathstroke be “The Terminator” going forward in the DC Universe. There was still a lot of resistance to homicidal anti-heroes in kids’ comics at the editorial level at that point, which is why The Punisher was still a guest star and The Vigilante was a mature readers direct market book. But it was always clear that Marv expected more for his Terminator, but then the movie forever assigned that name to a cyborg from the future, and the trademark for “The Terminator” was secured by NOW Comics in the comics arena. So we went back to clarifying Deathstroke the Terminator, especially when the solo title finally materialized. Also, one of Joe Kelly’s embellishments on Deadpool was that he’s not actually himself “Wade Wilson,” but he instead stole that identity from another character in-story. The real Wade Wilson was supposed to be his then-archenemy T-Ray, but it’s one of those things Marvel stopped bringing up after the character exploded in popularity.
No amount of revised history is ever going to convince me that Slade Wilson did not have sexual relations with that jailbait. It was a different time, which I lived through and knew well, so I know even our most beloved heroes (*coughBowiecough*) are known to have engaged in statutory situationships. Just like Reed and Ben having been World War veterans, it’s the kind of thing that could slip away in a sliding timeline. Except they kept bringing it up, and making the circumstances worse, like having Slade roofie Terra (and later, Batgirl.) And in making Slade ever increasingly “badass,” the scale of his bloodshed became unforgivable. Like The Joker, I can no longer allow for a “problematic fav,” and I silently judge their high-visibility stans.
v} New Teen Titans Annual #2 made a huge impression on me as a kid, and I really wanted to like Vigilante’s solo series, but I just thought it stank on ice. The costume is fantastic though, translating so well to live action, but the character was so mangled that I gave up on watching Peacemaker a few episodes in specifically because of that. I did come back to skim the later episodes of season 2 for the Superman tie-ins, and I was left with no regrets.
dcsf} Like Vigilante, I agree that DC Secret Files is the low visibility black sheep spin-off of the Who’s Who family of podcasts, and I thank Captain Entropy as the only repeat guest so far for the shameless plug of us both.
dk} I have most of the DK DC Encyclopedias, which only feature new art on the covers, with all interior art being reproduced (often from Who’s Who and Secret Files entries.) I skipped the recent edition because I’ve never been less invested in current mainstream DC Comics at any point in my life. I also skipped the second edition because I’ve never seen any point in it, but I eventually bought the New 52 era one specifically for Who’s Editing. I also got the Rebirth-period edition new to help me make sense of where we were after the New 52. I agree with Jeff Tischer that the quality of the Encyclopedias plummeted over time, but again, I really needed help getting my head around the New 52 stuff. That period was brimming with…”choices.”
*} I’m a bigger fan of dark humor than most, but I also like to be pedantic about popular music the same way I am about comics, and Mama Cass choking on a sandwich was always a ghoulish bit of intentional misinformation. She had a heart attack in her sleep. Admittedly her weight and history of substance abuse likely contributed, but there was no evidence of somnom-nombulism at play.
Hey, that’s right! I am featured prominently on your podcast I made a point of conspicuously bringing up in my comments. Would you look at that? What a funny coincidence.
I’m gonna find a way to use somnom-nombulism IRL. Thanks in advance.
Re: The New 52
Some New 52 events no longer valid post-Rebirth:
Pretty much all of the Superman books
Superman & Wonder Woman together
Wonder Woman being the result of a tryst between Zeus & Hippolyta
Cyborg being an original Justice Leaguer
The changes to Superboy, Supergirl, Wonder Girl, Robin (Tim), Impulse, Power Girl, Plastic Man, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Rose & Thorn, The Atom (Ray), The Challengers of the Unknown, The Metal Men, Black Lightning, Blue Devil, The Doom Patrol, and more
The erasure of the entire Golden Age, the Batgirls (Steph and Casandra), Donna Troy, Wally West, Garth (Aqualad/Tempest), and more
Basically, if a New 52 event replaced something established in Pre-N52 DCU history, it is likely gone and the original version restored (in one form or another). This seems to be especially true for personalities and relationships. In my head canon, if I didn’t like it, and there is nothing suggesting it still happened, it’s relegated to Earth-N52 and need not show it’s face again.
It’s amazing how disruptive those 5 years were. It’s been a decade since the New 52 ended, yet it’s existence and the major course-correcting that followed are still felt today.
Great recommendation of the Alan Scott: Green Lantern mini-series. Such a great work, and I got to talk about it on my podcast (JLA: Stories & Friends) with my friend Matt, who is not a comic book reader but really appreciated the story. Of particular note is the conversation Alan has with the Spectre in which the Spectre tells Alan he is a good man and has nothing to be ashamed of. The audacity in having what is essentially DC’s direct link to God come out and say love is love is what comics are all about, right up there with Captain America punching Hitler in the face,
Rob, I’m there with you in thinking Perez was excellent in showing the violence of hits and kicks. The surprint with Deathstroke taking on Robin and Wonder Girl always stuck out to me as clear demonstration as to what a formidable opponent he is. I mean, it looks like he’s putting them in the hospital.
First Rob insults non-humanoid Legionnaires, then he calls me a redneck. Man, guy is on a rampage! And while I love Smokey and the Bandit, it’s not my favorite movie. Superman The Movie is. You’d think the guy who was my cohost for years on the show ABOUT THAT FILM SERIES would remember that. I’m so hurt right now…
There’s so many comments above me, probably anything I was going to say has probably already been said. But as always I enjoyed the episode. The Alan Scott entry is an all-timer for me.
beep boop! the randomizer was the best host today!
just kidding…maybe…
I seem to remember that Green Lantern/Green Arrow story with Alan Scott being really stupid magical Starheart appearing out of nowhere. at least we got good covers from Mike Grell with him on it. That Superboy/ Batman team up was in BRAVE AND THE BOLD 192. Always a treat when Jim Aparo got to draw a Superman family member. Deathstroke always was a cool character. if he got overexposed it was much later than those Wolfman Perez Titans stories.
In one of those amazing comic coincidences, I just read a story with Captain Compass. He appeared in Detective Comics #500, one of many “ordinary” heroes in the Slam Bradley tale called “Too Many Cooks.” Compass got to scuba dive in the story, so props to him.
The first story I read with Doctor Destiny must have been a JLA Treasury, and I recall Dr D created a Materioptikon in his dreams while in prison, and was able to use it to create things in the real world like chocolate candies. And then other stuff happened but I don’t remember anymore. And yet I can spell Materioptikon from memory. Insert therapy joke here.
Lastly, I have to write about I.Q. Yes, really. A mere 6 months before his appearance in Who’s Who, he was the co-villain in DC Comics Presents #83 with Superman plus Batman and the Outsiders. I.Q.’s partner was the original Outsider, aka Alfred Pennyworth transformed into superpowered menace. I choose to believe there wasn’t time to modify his entry to include this story, because obviously it’s proof that I.Q. is an upper tier villain, right? … Right?
A very enjoyable episode of “The Review” (as the kids are calling it now) from everyone involved. It’s funny how I’ve changed as a reader. When I bought the original Who’s Who, I would have skimmed or even skipped the entries for Captain Compass and Captain Storm and similar characters since I was strictly a “super-hero” kid. I still am, but I have found myself drawn to those untapped-by-me genres at DC that I didn’t read like non-costumed adventure or war or Western comics. But, if I’m being really honest here, I’d still probably have a difficult time reading those comics. In theory, it sounds like a fun way to spend the afternoon, but I don’t know if they would hold my attention for more than a brief visit. The Randomizer entry was a total hoot and I’m happy it showed up throughout the episode even under the influence of cold medicine. Thanks for another batch of fun and joy.
Impressive podcast most impressive.
Ah Air Wave jr. I liked him. Yeah as a hero he was way cooler. No idea why they changed that. The costume is ok. And yep the letting the hair hang out is genus. Why run around over heating your head? Makes no sense. Him and Jade were a good couple. But, ah well.
Next Captain Storm seems cool. I only saw one Losers comic as a kid and that was on the floor in a friends bath room. And later the movie, but that was a different team. So got nothing next.
c. Kid is fine. At lest he’s not arm fall off boy. Or the TDK. The costume is comic convention first cosplay style. Dr. Destiny yeqh who cares he looks like Skeletor and Evil Lynn got him new cloths. So he’s eating it to make her happy.
He knows it sux. But happy Wifie happy life. And I think she dressed him that way so no other woman would look at him. Which I have never done. But, I heard it’s a thing no idea. Other than the cartoon I don’t care about him.
Next GG geez shouldn’t this guy be an at right content creator on U tube? Complaining about how woke the new He- Man movie looks? He is an interesting concept and used well in legends. The Ling is great. But, yellow and red.
Looks like Burger King. Sorry. Next
Green Lantern well… it’s a classic suit. Not the color palette I would use. Still it is there. Oy vey. Moving on.
IQ.. he looks like a Mr. Steed fan boy. With out the cool hat. And a yellow ascot geez what is he raiding Heef’s wardrobe? Also the outfit is fine till the yellow ascot. Blue and purple cool. But, yellow? No just no. Next.
Neptune P. Ah dressed like Namor but in red cool hair. Yesh he should have been able to breath under water . Next
Queen Bee Oy the 90s redesign was an improvement. But, yeah the art is great. As for the obsess with aging thing. Wait so she’s a millennial. Lol sorry … but it’s true.
Next so it’s a planet… next
Death Stroke so anti hero or villain Captain America. His out fit is fine, though clearly Perez was inspired by the golden age DD. With the mask. It’s a great design and awesome art work. Which is no surprise considering it’s the late great George
Perez .
Ok Shagg and Rob with the Randomizer is Awsome can’t wait for the next episode.
Thanks for another fun episode, Rob and Shag, I believe that you now have so many listeners that the Powers That Be say you should increase publication to monthly.
IQ looks incredible, and if anyone can’t see that, I don’t know what to say to them. Maybe I’d ask, is he named after Fred Quimby of Tom and Jerry fame?
Just for the sake of info, Shag, the strip Steve Dillon drew for Warrior wasn’t Laser, but Laser Eraser and Pressbutton.
As regards films with DC copyright links, didn’t Starman have some acknowledgement to DC Comics? Rob will know.
I get so tired of Deathstroke the Terminally Boring, he’s meant to be so intelligent,using 90% of his brain, but he always gets beaten – except for that scene in Identity Crisis in which he took down the whole JLA at once, which is obviously ridiculous. Like Wolverine he’s a mass murderer but we’re meant to believe he has a sense of honour – murderers are without honour and nobility.
It’s ridiculous that the new Vigilante got two pages where Alan Scott got just one.
Anyway, fabulous show!