Our coverage continues of JSA in the 90s with Mark Baker-Wright and The Irredeemable Shag discussing JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA #7 (Feb 1993) by Len Strazewski, Mike Parobeck, and Mike Machlan! The JSA discover the secrets behind Bahdnesia and the missing Bahdnesians, while the evil Pol St Germain triggers his explosive final plan! Plus, we review Jesse Quick’s costumes! Finally, we wrap up with YOUR listener feedback!
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Paul St. Germain. I’m convinced that he is based on The Count of St. Germain. That is a character from history who reportedly never aged or died. Reminds me of Vandal Savage.
I’m not familiar with the Count, but such an origin would certainly explain Pol’s longevity, which is incidental to the story, at best. Perhaps if the series continued and/or Pol was used more, it would have been possible to explore that more thoroughly.
Great episode, guys! Liberty Belle and Johnny Quick are two of the main characters of the All-Star Squadron, so I’ve always had a love for them. It’s great ro see their legacy live on with Jesse.
While I love the Liberty Belle costume, I prefer Jesse being primarily identified as a speedster, so I like her in the red and yellow.
It’s interesting – there are a number of male golden age characters with female legacies, but you don’t tend to see the opposite. Can you think of a female golden age character with a male legacy?
An interesting question. Of course, there were comparatively fewer female characters to start with in the Golden Age, and several of THOSE started out as distaff counterparts to male heroes (Hawkgirl to Hawkman, for example), which limits the potential number of male legacy versions right out of the gate. Perhaps Silver Scarab (Hector Hall) counts, although he’s as much a legacy of Hawkman as he is of Hawkgirl, and I don’t think any of the other male Infinitors are children of female characters. I’m curious to see if others come up with some!
Does the android Red Tornado count as a legacy of Ma Hunkle’s? That’s the ONLY one I can think of.
That’s a good one!
First I like to send out the xum single because I got JSA related question did peachy show up in flash comics and if so when ? I’ve bin reading some old JSA comics and it seems like while most of jSA members have friend to team up with out side of JSA except maybe the atom and the Spector Johnny ‘s got no body so does anyone know when peachy shows up in flash comics so I can see if can find that issue digitally? Also Jessi’s best costume I like liberty bell . To bad liberty bell her mom never had brave and bold style team up with phantom lady .
So, a stealth Jesse Quick spotlight episode, eh? Not complaining! I really like the character (since reading this series as it was coming out, mind you) and I’m kind of sad for how misused it’s been over time. I remember the pang of excitement each time: “yes! she’s going to be in Flash!”, “yes! she’s joining the Titans!” only to be disappointed each time. By the time she joined JSA it was as Liberty Belle, and listen, I like Libby and was happy for Jesse Chambers appearing wherever, but why do away with her established character? Anyway, I see a Geoff Johns power rant coming up so i’m gonna take a deep breath…
On to the issue, as you, in the kindest way possible, point… it’s not good, is it? Gorgeous, but the writing is all over the place. I can see why it’s never been collected, it would be a messy TPB with lovely art (but then, so are a bunch of 90s reprints…). And the whole ethnic take, let’s say it: it’s not good either. I’m not going to say full on racist or nationalist, but at least not well informed. I understand we are currently better equipped to discuss these things, but even 30+ years ago the concept of diaspora was already well known and these discussions applied to jewish, latinx and other communities beyond just academia.
Hello,
I was thinking about how the first issue of the JSA was in 1940 and the first issue of the JLA was 1960. Only twenty years between the two comics coming out. It is funny that now we still only have the JSA and JLA. I sort of feel like maybe the JLI was meant to replace the JLA concept the same way the JLA replaced the JSA concept but that didn’t quite work obviously. This does beg the question which I would love for you to answer on the show, Do you all think that comics in general would’ve been heavily impacted if DC just did a real reboot of everything every 20 years? Imagine if in the 80’s we just got something totally different that wasn’t connected to anything from the pass 20 years. New continuity. Then 20 years after etc. Or at least maybe just change the name of their primary super hero team every 20 years be an interesting change?
–my comment broke the first time I hope this one works
The first time you comment with an IP address/handle, the comment requires approval. Since you repeated it, I have deleted the redundant original.
When it comes to Jesse, I mostly think of her 1995 suit with the brown leather jacket (which I think fits in with the jacketed Avengers more than the X-Men) and her 1996 suit. I don’t like the Q-boob look, though. Jesse is the rare legacy character that has two mantles to live up to, but she manages to handle both of them while making them her own. I always think of Jesse as her own character who just happens to have two famous superhero parents rather than being the daughter of two famous superheroes if that makes any sense.
I’m gonna be in the minority on this one, but I’m not a big fan of any of her looks. The 96 and 2000 versions look like she should be a pro rassler. I guess if I had to pick one I’d go with the terminal velocity look without the jacket. But I’m not nearly as versed in DC lore as some of you guys, so I could be wrong. Keep up the great work and keep giving me great content to listen to as I work overnights. Love you guys
SNAP! We are a minority of two, I really like the sleeveless Flash look. The Q-boob outfit gets points for uniqueness, and the darker red is a nice change, but ponytailed heroines never work, as Zatanna* quickly realised. The Johnny Quick outfit looks terrible on Jesse, particularly the shorts – the pale yellow against skin tone is a tad nausea-making. She looks best in the Liberty Belle outfit, but basically we’re looking at her mom.
* Another heroine who had to forge her own look, away from her father (keep that for stage work and non-team adventures) and mother. The Perez snail-head suit is perfect, though I always liked the tiny nod to the tux at the front.
It’s like you’re in my head, reading my thoughts cuz I had all of those exact thoughts about her get ups. LB is just her mom and the ponytail, jacket and the shorts is what killed it for me with the others.
First of all, I agree w/ Mark that Liberty Belle is Jesse’s best costume. When it comes to the others, I like the Flash #101 version w/ the brown bomber jacket and ponytail. And I see the “Q” now on Costume #5, but it looked for all the world like a hammer and sickle to me.
One thing that leaps out to me in this issue: Pol St. Germain’s conversation w/ a tied up Ted Grant. PSG says that he saw Ted fight at the Munich Olympics and Ted replies that “was in 1939!” There were no Olympics in 1939. There were Summer Olympics in 1936, but they were held in Berlin not Munich. Maybe, PSG and Ted misremembered?
Or the timeline could be different in the DC Universe from our universe. After all, the Berlin Games were the last Olympics until 1948 due to World War 2.
Good catch, re: the Olympics. We should have caught that ourselves, simply on the basis of the year being an odd number, let alone not a multiple of four. As to Berlin/Munich, perhaps there were events in multiple cities, with Berlin being the official home? That’s a *very* common occurrence with Olympics these days, but perhaps wasn’t yet back then?
But since we’re talking about that scene, one thing I didn’t think to mention during the episode that deserves some attention: That conversation is specifically in place to get us to the revelation that Pol St. Germain is older than he looks… but this is *just* 1993. It’s by no means impossible for a man to have witnessed an event in 1939 (OR 1936!) and still be alive to talk about remembering it. Honestly, Pol St. Germain doesn’t even *look* all that young. I could believe that he’s in his 80s just by the art alone, and being that old wouldn’t really make his actions in this storyline all that much of a stretch (especially not with the abilities available to super-villains in the DC Universe).
I completely agree, this issue feels rushed. It needed more space to address the missing Bahdnesians, which the creators simply were not going to get. Such a shame, but it does make me appreciate that we got the issues we did, and give some grace for its problems.
If I may offer an additional take on Alan and Molly, the retcon of Alan does work. My wife’s sister was married and had 2 children by her husband, and then he came out. This all happened before Mary and I started dating, oddly close to the time this comic was on the stands. With public opinion what it was, not everyone in the closet necessarily was consciously in denial. They just tried hard to be “normal”. I can tell you, my sister-in-law and her ex do love each other to this day, but he wasn’t being true to himself and had to come out, even though it hurt her. My head canon lets this be Alan’s time where he has legitimate affection for Molly, and isn’t even questioning if something’s missing. That probably didn’t make any sense, so I’ll leave it at that.
There’s no doubt that Jesse Quick is *the* legacy of this series. Even though she hasn’t been used well all the time by later creators, her continued presence means this volume mattered. So I am always glad to see her appear for that reason alone.
For her costumes, I like parts of each look, but none of them really sing. So honestly, I keep coming back to this issue’s aerobics/runner look. It’s how I picture her: beautiful without overly sexualized. Give me those thigh-length shorts over a swimsuit any day.
One last thing. The scene taking down the guards is jaw-droppingly gorgeous and funny, and then undercut by Dr Mid-Nite’s line “it worked so well with your mother.” I’m far from an expert on the original Liberty Belle, but I just cannot see her pulling a trick like this. If Doc had said “Phantom Lady” or “Black Canary/your Aunt Dinah”, that would have worked. Ok, maybe Libby *did* pull that trick, but Doc couldn’t see her scowl afterwards.
Keep ’em flying!
I give Len S credit for coming up with a new villain, but he was a tad dull, no wonder he’s never come back.
The distraction business… was there not a single person involved in the creation of this book that realised gay men exist? I’d love the plan to have failed because Bob the Guard didn’t care that Jesse Chambers had lowered her zip. Also, the idea – which I know Shag disagrees with – that a woman has to take her specs off to be noticed, give me a break! I know the whole moment was a gag, but the heterosexual presumption was tired even when the book came out.
Hey guys, great episode! I have to agree, this story felt like it wrapped up a bit too quickly. I’m guessing that’s probably due to the sudden cancellation of the series. It seemed like there was going to be more backstory or a bigger reveal behind Pol St. Germain, but instead we got a “blow up the island” ending.
I really enjoyed your breakdown of Jesse Chambers’ past costumes. My favorites are the Liberty Belle outfit and the one that most closely resembles Johnny Quick’s. If I could tweak anything, I’d give her long pants—maybe something styled like her mom’s pants.
I don’t know if it was ever officially written anywhere, but my headcanon has always been that Jesse splits her time between identities. Sometimes she goes out as Liberty Belle, sometimes as Jesse Quick—honoring both of her parents’ legacies.
As for the question of whether Liberty Belle could have distracted the enemy the same way Jesse did? I think it’s totally possible. Just looking at the early All-Star Squadron issues on DCUI, Liberty Belle’s shirt is unbuttoned pretty low, with a blue collar and the Liberty Bell symbol on her stomach. In later issues, she has a red collar, the shirt is buttoned up more, and the symbol moves to her chest. She even wears a cape in some of those later issues. So yeah, it’s entirely possible she used her costume as a distraction in the past, too.
One more thing I forgot to add regarding the Bahdnesian skin tone. While flipping through some old Young All-Stars issues, I noticed that Flying Fox was also colored with that same magenta skin tone. Since Young All-Stars and this Justice Society of America series weren’t too far apart in publication years, I initially thought it might have been the same colorist, but it wasn’t. It makes me wonder if this was an unfortunate DC house style or coloring guideline at the time.
Impressive podcast most impressive. Ah Jessie Quick I always liked her. Even on the Flash tv show. The costume was fine from the tv show. Probably what they had in the budget. The first one is fine for a jazzer size outfit. lol. The Flash ones fit what Walley led her too believe.
Yeah that was wrong of him granted it didn’t work out for Bart Either. Think he died after that Crissis story. Though he did help beat Super boy prime. So that’s something and he came back. But, yeah they did Jessie dirty. Though she does rock the flash look with the jacket.
The next two look like kitty pride, forgotten costume. I like the boots though take the last costume and the boots from one of those to sit and you got an outfit . The story is fine. Did the stepdaughter of Johnny and this become the next person and the lightning genie work for them that would’ve been a good idea.
Wild Cat made to fight as a mind controlled cat. Ya know the others on the team ripped him big time for that. Anyway I liked Jessie better as Liberty bell. The rebirth costume that is a crime against humanity. Her current customer is fine. Not a fan of the anime look I am glad to get a bit of backstory about her in this issue. The bit with her and Dr. mid. Knight was fun. The end of the story was good. Can’t wait for the next episode.
Here’s a question for the peanut gallery what male superheroes have had as many, if not more, costume changes than there female equavalents? I mean if we discount minor details I don’t think Batman has ever changed the basics of his costume!
(I will save you the “pleasure” of how many costume’s Pee Gee has gone through, though it’s more than you’d expect considering how prominent her boob window costume is returned too!)
To show un-irradeemable (deemable?) I am upon looking at that image of Jesse all I could think of is that I’ve seen this image before. And as this is my first time through this run it’s not the comic itself, some other media has used this image of one very similiar. Or I could be going completely bonkers is a toss up at this point really!
Oh and whilst I don’t normally comment of feedback I felt the need to a little research on DC’s first female heroine, TL:DR it’s Ma Hunkel! All my skant research is here for those interested! https://bsky.app/profile/symbolpending.bsky.social/post/3lq7mwtkxzk2k
The Johnny Quick homage w/the shorts is the best, by far, if she’s going by the moniker “Jesse Quick”. It’s unique amongst speedsters and it just makes sense to run in shorts. Running in a leather jacket is just silly. If she decides so go out as “Liberty Belle”, however, that look is priceless. (TBH, she really needs to make up her mind. But I’ll leave it to Rick to tell her that).
Being a huge Flash and JSA fan, I was all in for the extended conversation about my favorite JSA legacy character Jesse Quick! Lots of costumes through the years but for what it’s worth, my favorite is the current one with the visor and jacket but as seen in the recent Flash “One Minute War”’ storyline with the classic “Quick” logos on the boots!
But regarding your question if Doctor Mid-Nite ever interacted with Liberty Belle back in the day. Don’t forget, the good Doctor was a founding member of the All-Star Squadron and was a big part of that first story arc (even appearing on the now classic cover of the first issue looking over potential team mate photos next to Hawkman and the Atom). So he’s know Libby at least as long as Johnny has!
Thanks for the great podcast.
Great show, Shag and Mark. I’ve been sort of indifferent to Jesse Quick, but I’ve gained a new appreciation for her during the podcast. I enjoyed her in the 2000’s JSA run, but always thought it was odd for her wear the liberty bell outfit as a speedster. I think my favorite Jesse costume is number #4. It’s cool looking. Keeps the red and gold color scheme, and looks like a practical speed suit. The giant Q outfit is also pretty practical but that big Q always looked like a hammer and sickle, like she was Russian hero from the cold war. And wearing a jacket or puffy sleeves makes no sense. All that drag!