DC SpecialCast #9 – Secret Origins of Doctor Fate, Black Canary, and Lightray!

19 responses to “DC SpecialCast #9 – Secret Origins of Doctor Fate, Black Canary, and Lightray!”

1. Another great episode of this fantastic show.

   Although I do listen to each month’s podcast,
   I don’t comment on each one because usually when I read the comments,
   everyone else has already said what I wanted to say – but I know that that won’t happen THIS month.

   When Paul was talking about reading the words ‘origin’ and ‘asylum’ and using his own pronunciation for them I thought about how when I would read the word ‘Zatanna’ I’d think it was ZaNtanna – I’m sure that was because of the music group Santanna (and maybe even because of Robert Urich on Vega$ – Dan Tanna) –
   don’t try to tell me that Brett Young is going to write in and try to say the same thing!

   Regarding the table of contents page – given the titles of the first two stories, ‘This Immortal Destiny’ and ‘This Light A-Borning’
   I think that the third story should have been called ‘THIS Canary Is A Bird Of Prey’.

   2

2. got a bunch of comments
   1 DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER Black Canary started as Johnny thunder’s Catwoman?
   2 they fiddled with a BATMAN BLACK Canary romance for two whole issuses I like the idea for two reasons A who’s gonna choose Green arrow over BATMAN? B from Batman’s prospective “She’s like CATWOMAN that never tried to kill me!
   3 nobody ever brings up DR FATE BEING WERIDLY AGED UP

   1. Black Canary starting off in Johnny Thunder is always mentioned when her origins come up, it came up here.

      Also, no need to SHOUT 🙂

      1. sorry cap lock stuck

         1

3. This origin of Dr. Fate clearly states that his origin took place in Sumeria, not Egypt. Someone ask Paul Levitz about that!

4. I’m reading the issue 73 more fun comics facsimile
   And in that comic Dr fate acts more like Robin . Making jokes and pulling off acrobatic moves .i think it maybe his childhood personality returning .
   I may have got the issue number wrong . As it’s the one where aqua man and green arrow and speedy first appearance. Also is Elsa a
   Cougar considering Dr fates original age .

   1

5. Fun show, as usual.
   I’m particularly glad you gave that little shout-out to Mike Vosburg with the bio; I’ve always liked a lot of his work, meaning mainly the stuff you could tell he enjoyed doing, like the short-lived sword & planet Starfire series from DC, the Marvel/Epic series Sisterhood of Steel or this Black Canary story (one rather telling throughline: all involved many images of attractive women, as one or both of you pointed out). And yes, his website is well worth visiting.

   1

6. Great show, Paul and Brento! I especially like hearing my own name and podcast mentioned so often on a show I have nothing to do with. More of that, please.

   Considering I covered this Black Canary origin twice–once on Secret Origins Redux and once on my Black Canary blog, I’m really irritated with myself that I didn’t say more about Mike Vosburg on my recent appearance on Fantastic Four, where Brett and I talked about a Vosburg-drawn issue of G.I. Joe. I was very excited to see his name credited when I read that issue, remembering him from his run on Joe (I didn’t read this Secret Origins comic until 2012 or something). While some of his figure work can be questionable in the story, overall I like his sleek look for the characters and the energy it evokes. You mentioned his Retrowood comic; I read that several years ago and liked it quite a bit. Basically a Chandleresque private eye comic set in an alt universe Hollywood.

   Fun listen, as always! I hope (expect) you and Chris mention my horror comics coverage on the next episode.

   1

   1. Its the Fantastic POUR, Ryan… no respect I tell ya.

      1

7. Nice to hear Brent on the show!

   I know only I am fascinated by this stuff, but I am genuinely interested how DC arrived at this weird line-up: two JSAers and…Lightray? I know these Secret Origins-themed issues would often feature very different characters jumbled together (see: Huntress/Green Arrow/the Legion) but to be so close to a theme issue and then throw in what was clearly an inventory piece from the cancelled NEW GODS reboot? How odd. Still, looks good thanks to the incomparable Don Newton.

   Some of the anatomy on the Black Canary is a bit wonky, to be sure. No offense to Mr. Vosburg, but I bet Terry Austin as inker really helped pull the pages together visually.

8. Another great episode. The cover makes me think Lightray needs to eat more fiber.

   It is an odd mix but that what these issues were for, introduce people to all the corners. If you don’t like the JSA you might skip an ‘only JSA’ book. But if you like them, you might buy this for the Fate and be introduced to the Fourth World. I wonder if that is why there is so much Metron and Orion in here, to sort of give a sample of that universe.

   I am usually a Vosburg fan, specifically in the oft-mentioned Starfire book. And that run on American Flagg was pretty racy, even for a Chaykin book. But here most of the pics look like Canary has been pulled by a taffy machine. It is a shame. And while busy I do like the Toth-story logo but probably like the host because I love that story so much.

   1

9. Hey, I believe that I had this one! I definitely remember the Doctor Fate and Lightray stories. I had picked up my first issue of the New Gods series around the same time and it just happened to be the final issue of the series #19. I was only 6 or 7 years old so, of course, I was utterly baffled as to who these people were and what was going on. The Lightray story featured in this episode helped give me a little bit of context.

   And while Canary looks great, if a bit lanky on the first page of her story, she does look a little elongated in the scenes from her childhood. Maybe, she also liked that gingold soda that was such a hit back in the day.

   1

10. Great discussion gents! I have had this issue for close to 40 years, finding it at a flea market I believe sometime in the mid to late 80s. I had completely forgotten Staton was the penciller on the Doctor Fate story as Nasser totally overpowers him. Having said that, I do like the art.

    Don Newton is one of my all-time favorite and I grew up on his Batman, so needless to say I love the art on the Lightray story. It is interesting to see a much more human side of Metron for sure.

    As always I enjoyed your creator spotlight on Mike Vosburg, Paul. His art style seems to change a lot. Very lithe, elongated figures here, but his figures are pretty stocky a few years later in G.I. Joe. It is odd to not see Wildcat in here training Dinah, but I guess that was probably added by Alan Brennert in Secret Origins #50.

    Overall this is a solid comics with stories by two of DC’s top guys of the later Bronze Age, Levitz and Conway. Add in the JLGL (PBHN) cover and you have something really…special! Even if the mix is odd!

11. Great show thanks Paul and Brento. I love the cover, it’s JLGL, of course, but also, so much thought had gone into the lettering and blurbs overall.

    So far as Secret Origins go, my attitude is ‘Give us something new or just reprint the original’. Dr Fate didn’t get anything new, but yes, the Inza perspective was a little different, even if she’s telling us nonsense, contradicting herself.
    Page 1: ‘… I can’t help wondering if they’d be willing to trade their existence for one of more than mortal greatness, the trade my husband made.’
    Page 3: ‘Kent had no choice.’
    No one has a more abusive origin than Dr Fate. His father is murdered – Kent may have tripped the trap, but he didn’t set it – and he becomes an orphaned meat puppet.

    Lightray -what a dullard he is.

    Yep, the Black Canary art is wonky but the story is OK.

    It’s interesting that at this point BC had a lot more agency than the other two heroes in the issue in terms of making herself a hero.

    Did Dinah ever look for the Earth One version of herself? I know she was disappointed by the Larry Lance she found in Brave and Bold. Maybe she had a different name but did get into police college and came out a… Lady Cop.

    I love the Seventies logo, it was so different. I’d guess Toth himself did it.

    Terrific creator focus, Paul!

    1. PS While Gerry Conway wrote that daft, damaging JLA story re-origining Dinah in JLA 219-220, the second part credits the idea to one Marv Wolfman.

12. That Black Canary becomes her own mother story is a bad BC story but it’s a pretty great thunderbolt story

    1

13. Great show, Paul and Brent. I never read this issue but I instantly recognized it. DC loved their character bursting through a circle covers. And JLGL nailed it as always. Interesting assortment of characters. I feel like Dr. Fate lives off the coolness of his costume. His origin is kind of odd, and I feel like he never really leaned into the weird aspects of the character like Dr. Strange did. He’d be of better use in a Vertigo title. I don’t have much to say about Lightray beyond that his logo makes it look like his name is Light Tray. I’m a big Black Canary fan – recent Tom King series excluded – so it was fun to re-visit how bizarre her original storyline was as she switched earths and stuff. The Vosburg was really different. Characters seemed to have an elasticity to them. There was a touch of Mike Grell wonky anatomy as well. Ryan Daly and I just discussed his G.I. Joe work on the Fantastic Pour (it’s most likely up for a Peabody), and that artwork made the characters seems more stout and stiff – almost the exact opposite of this. very strange. And, of course, I always smile when I see an old ad for Batman Family.

14. – [ ] Impressive podcast most impressive. Ah Black Cannery. Wait and Ryan Dally Wasn’t on this episode? Shocking lol, I use to be a big fan of hers till they had her beat Huntress just … no still as a legacy character she is cool. Her back up story’s in the Flash well they were olli’e but still.

    – [ ] Her use of judo , boxing and I guess karate was cool. Still having worn fishnets and heels it’s not the ideal outfit to fight in. I tear mine getting through a day. How doors she beat Death Stroke in those? I mean with training it’s possible. But, she’s gonna have to buy them whole sale. Anyway her back story is cool.

    – [ ] Though I read the after crisis one this one is cool too. I’m glad she and her dad got along. Though wouldn’t that be this is black Canney 1 s origin. I use to say it Oregon so I can’t fault y’all’s ops till ya heard it.

    – [ ] Light Ray. Even in his origin he’s the least cool hero there. lol. Next

    – [ ] Dr. Fate Insia is cool , but she looked cooler in the JLU cartoon . Yep she has a good back story. Yeah I have no idea how Kent functions at all. He’s a child in a man’s body.,:, wait is he the president now? Any way can’t wait for the next podcast.

15. Great episode! I love this issue. It’s funny because I’ve never been a big fan of the New Gods. However, I LOVE the Mister Miracle maxi-series by Tom King and Mitch Gerads (cue boos from the crowd now) and am really enjoying the current New Gods series by Ram V and Evan Cagle.

    Like they say, every character is one good creative team away from being awesome.