Rob welcomes back fellow network all-star Sean Ross to the cabin to discuss AVENGERS #225!
Check out images from this comic by clicking here!
- E-MAIL – firewaterpodcast@comcast.net
- Follow Mountain Comics on Twitter – https://twitter.com/FWPMountainCom
This podcast is a proud member of the FIRE AND WATER PODCAST NETWORK:
- Visit the Fire & Water WEBSITE: http://fireandwaterpodcast.com
- Follow Fire & Water on BLUE SKY – https://bsky.app/profile/fwpodcasts.bsky.social
- Like our Fire & Water FACEBOOK page – https://www.facebook.com/FWPodcastNetwork
- Support The Fire & Water Podcast Network on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/fwpodcasts
- Use our HASHTAG online: #FWPodcasts
Thanks for listening!
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Another fun episode. I started picking up the Avenger with the issue you mentioned with Spider-Man on the cover. Just in time for Assistant Editors Month.
For my “Favorite Surprise Return of a Long Gone Character” I present John Wesley Shipp from Flash-90 appearing in the CW Flash series (in three acts)
1. Return of a character from a different series is a great way to show respect for the original series:
– John Wesley Shipp as the original Barry Allen (complete with the original fuzzy suit)
2. Honorable mention goes to bringing back an actor to play a new characters related to their iconic character:
– John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick and sometimes mentor to the younger Barry Allen
3. Least favorite way to bring back an actor is as a completely different character which can be too distracting than if some other actor was hired:
– John Wesley Shipp as Barry Allen’s dad, Henry Allen, who is framed for murder (for plot reasons) and is eventually killed off in the next season
The CW DC shows brought did a lot of this, good and bad. Even though their version of Crisis on Infinite Earths was infinitely confusing, it included so many cameos of previous characters that it was like a love letter to so many TV shows and movies that came before it.
i love doctor druid but largely becuase I WROTE a pitch Where he sort of redeems himself. I even came up with a reason he’s such a dick…
What is Doctor Druid? He’s a rich pre -fantastic four dude who spends his own money traveling around meeting werid stuff. He finally reports to Kent Blake/Nick Fury whoever HIS running into aliens is why the FF got funding! Leading to DrIUD spying on the Fantastic Four and saying “I had been Jealous of Richards because he got my funding but now I find a new reason to be jealous Richards is loved.
Definitely agree with Sean about LaRocque’s art in this one – while you can see the talent, it was still at a really rough stage here, and kind of reminds of the art you could see by young up-and-comers in the old fanzines of the ’70s or ’80s. As for Dr. Druid, I kind of liked him, or rather liked the way he was written, during Stern’s Avengers run; yeah, he was kind of a low-key jerk, but he was still useful to have around.
Sad to hear that the show is in its last season. I’m sorry to see it go, but I understand your reasoning, Rob. Best to bow out on a high note…
I’m gonna try on commit on every episode since this the last season . Have to say though I have read some avengers comics I’ve never read anything with the heroic black knight. Didn’t Dr Druid become a dad later or I’m thinking of some one else ? I’m reading some marvel comics though in my case my character is nick fury I finished the shield collection which his tales suspense stories am now I’m reading volume of his adventures with the howling commandoes I could not get vol.1 .
I’m
Reading some dc books as and Star Trek books but I’ll save those for next time
Such a fun talk. Great episode.
Even as a kid, I was probably 80% DC and 20% Marvel. So it is funny how two of the characters you talked about here – Black Knight and Dr. Druid – were two of those characters that I thought were BIG DEALS only because I ran across them in one of the few Marvel books I had.
Avengers #157 – the petrified Black Knight statue in the Avengers attic comes to life and tries to get revenge on being forgotten only to be smashed by the villain
Hulk #210-211 – In which Dr Druid enlists the Hulk to help him fight the Maha Yogi
So crazy to hear how long it had been for the Black Knight to not re-appear!
As for characters returning, I think Bucky coming back so successfully has to be one of the biggest answers out there. But I’ll also say that the Chief and the original Negative Man coming back from the ‘long dead’ Doom Patrol in the 90s was also pretty crazy, especially given how well Morrison used them.
Like Sean, I loved LaRocque’s Legion work.
And I am giggling that the calculus story has legs. I mean it when I say I had visions of us studying together into the wee hours to then lean in and kiss.
You chaps are so right, this cover is so brilliant (and the next was equally excellent). I always liked the Black Knight’s dashing look, though didn’t like that Dane Whitman was American, it just felt wrong.
I don’t have the original Hulk Comic copies with me to check, but I’m pretty sure this story is continuing Dane’s adventures from Marvel UK, in which he and Captain Britain were slung into the past. That bit where Dane remarks: ‘A pretty good summary, Hawkeye – except that it’s five years out of date’ seems to be the clincher. If I’m wrong, I know Chris Lewis, Matt Evs, Jimmy McGlinchy, Symbol Pending, Doug Adamson or some other Brit can put me right.
I actually think Greg LaRoque’s work looks better here under veteran artist Chic Stone than it often did at DC.
What’s this printer’s… Kinko? Kenco?
And what’s the Plan B that was mentioned? Questions, questions.
Rob, your Spider-Man: Home Alone idea is brilliant, Rob. Incidentally, has any reason been given as to why the current Spidey Films have ‘home’ in the title?
Martin – Kinko’s was a 24 hour copier store. Plan B is a pill a woman can take within 72 hours of sexual activity to avoid pregnancy.
I actually think my idea for a one-off episode on strangest jobs would be fun just based on what Rob and I have experienced, much less what the other folks would add. Can you imagine what weirdness Shag would bring?!
I too am a big fan big of Dane Whitman, The Black Knight, although I wasn’t introduced to him until about 40 issues later. It was Roger Stern who turned me into a regular reader of the Avengers. The first issue of Avengers I ever read was about a year prior to 225, the two part story guest starring The Silver Surfer, written by Jim Shooter. Shooter was given special permission to by Stan Lee to use Silver Surfer in the story.
Back in the mid 80s when I had a subscription to Star Wars, the series was canceled midway through, and Marvel replaced it with G.I.Joe: Special Missions. Now, I don’t know if I got that went to all Star Wars subscribers, or if I got it because I also had a subscription to the regular G.I. Joe title. Special Missions launched at the time Star Wars was canceled, so that could also have been the reason.
Thanks for another fun and nostalgic trip back to my early years of enjoying comics.
Special Missions is a pretty awesome replacement for Star Wars! I wonder if other kids who didn’t collect GI Joe got something like Dazzler?
Welcome back Mountain Comics! We know it’s summer now!
Agree that this cover is awesome. While I never hated Dr. Druid “like he killed my family in an alley” (Geez, Sean), I always thought he was stupid. As Rob put it, Dollar Store Dr. Strange. I had forgotten that he depowered Monica R.
At this time, I don’t think I would have known the Black Knight – maybe I would have seen him in an Avengers reprint, but he did grow into one of my favorite Avengers. What I always liked about the team books from early 80s was that they would focus on the less popular characters, instead of all Batman, all Iron Man, all the time. That allowed characters like this to shine.
And best/most unexpected return? Well, Brian makes a compelling case for John Wesley Shipp above, I will give him that. But I will go with Bucky/Winter Soldier. At the time, it was a big deal, and I was definitely in the camp of “c’mon, let SOMEBODY stay dead!” but that book was on fire and Brubaker made him into a real and interesting character. In retrospect, when you read old Cap stories, the “ooh woe is me, my partner Bucky is dead” got old real fast.
Great episode from 2 of the best podcasters out there.
Oh, almost forgot. Rob, I do think Greg LaRocque may have lived around us at one point. I know that when my kids were little, he was a guest several times at some of the small local shows. My younger son is a big Flash fan and he have a sketch he did and signed to him still hanging in his room. I don’t recall much else about meeting him but I agree with Sean that he really got better as he went along and I loved his Flash and Legion too.
Great episode gents! Glad to hear that opening theme and go back to beautiful Mt. Airey Lodge. I always liked Black Knight. He has such a cool look, pretty unique for a super hero. I bought this era of Avengers sporadically when I found it, and enjoyed it. Cool Greg LaRocque story, Rob! I do agree with Sean his art is a bit rough in places, but it was books like this that showcased up and coming artists that made me think I may have been able to make it in comics, and had room to grow.
Spider-Man: Home Alone is so ingenious of an idea, that if Kevin Feige hears this, he may take off his ballcap in disbelief that he he didn’t think of it. And now that Disney owns Fox which owned Home Alone, they can totally usurp the name for a Spidey film. Have Macaulay Culkin cameo as a Stark security guard or something just for fun.
No more Mountain Comics? What about Jersey Shore Comics?
Wow, this issue takes me back. While I’d read comics all my life, it was tons of old freebies and less brand-new ones, but my mail order subscription to Avengers and Amazing Spider-Man changed that. My first Avengers issue from that was #205, continuing well past this issue. Love that cover and the Avengers line-up in this era. Plus, this was my introduction to the comic book Black Knight. (Of course, I was watching Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends and saw that version of BK, but such a different character it barely counts.) I knew none of his history or the significance of him appearing, and I didn’t care. He looked cool, and the Avengers all knew him. That was enough for me.
Speaking of subscriptions, that’s a great question about how replacements work. Of course, being me, I would go by whatever’s closest alphabetically. So kids who ordered Strawberry Shortcake would receive Strikeforce: Morituri. Sounds perfect, right?
I better stock up on Yoohoo now before the show concludes.