On this episode of Peace Bound and Down: A Wonder Woman Podcast, Sean is joined by the delightful Martin Gray to discuss issue 9 of volume two of Wonder Woman. This is it! The post-Crisis debut of Wonder Woman’s greatest enemy: The Cheetah. Buckle up because things are going to get bloody!
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Great show! Always happy to hear Martin’s dulcet tones on the network.
Even though it makes total sense from a story perspective, I was never that excited when Wonder Woman fought the Gods (ditto Aquaman). I like her more in a superhero mold so I remember being happy that Perez was finally getting to Diana’s #1 nemesis, The Cheetah.
Looking back with decades of hindsight, I also appreciate how Perez took The Cheetah and built on what was there already. He didn’t rename her Claw or Slash or some stupid EXTREME!!! thing. Instead he gave us a fresh take on a classic villain. Updated for the 80s, sure, but a recognizable version of what has come before,
Finally, I agree about travel being a great way to broaden one’s horizons. I still have never traveled outside the US and Sufferin’ Sappho, I can’t wait until I can.
Rob,
Thanks for listening! I, too, love Perez’ reinvention of The Cheetah, though the idea of 90s -ing her up and calling her “Slash” did make me laugh.
And I am all for traveling. In fact, I’m writing this from Japan….just had to sneak that in.
Another great episode I think most people of the younger generation know this version of the cheetah from her appearances on dc super hero girls where she is one of the main villains.
I wonder what happen if this version of wonder watched super hero girls? Especially the episode that focuses on pets .
Secret questions
1. In the comics wonder woman has gone adventures with versions of her self
From alternate world and even younger self’s ,
Which story would rather read wonder tot being baby sat by young super girl and streaky or the original wonder girl goes on an adventure with young Bruce Wayne as Robin and super boy ?
2. Which manga cross over like to read a else world one shot staring either trinity or wonder tot
My hero academia meets trinity and the super sons or Astro boy meets wonder tot .
Bucky,
Great questions!
I think that Diana would like DC Super Hero Girls, though she comes across a bit headstrong at times. Cheetah, however…..
1. I would love to see Wonder Girl and a young Bruce Wayne. The hormones of it all!
2. I’d like to see Trinity as a part of the Assassination Classroom crew. So much fun!
Great episode covering a powerful issue. Always great to hear Martin’s thoughts. I always learn something.
The thing that struck me about this issue is how different this fight was compared to the cerebral ending to the Ares fight. This isn’t a philosophical debate to change a villain’s plans. This was a slashing, frenzied, bloody mess. It showed the range of story-telling we would be getting here with Perez. Sometimes brain, sometimes brawn. Sometimes peace. Sometimes war. Brilliant.
Some answers-
Best villain sidekick – Shego from Kim Possible. A super-powered, cynical, probably smarter villain than the main baddie Dr. Drakken. Love her. In comics, I’d say Dr. Sivana’s kids. Too silly.
Best Crisis recreation – I would have said Helena Bertinelli if Sean hadn’t. As an Italian-American, there are few characters who I can culturally identify with. I loved her. Fantastic. But since she has been taken, I will go Hawk and Dove. Adding Dawn. Changing it from War/Peace to Order/Chaos was brilliant. And having those two learn from each other and the creators exploring the origins of their powers was fantastic.
Best New 52 reboot – I liked Grant Morrison’s Action Comics run, re-exploring Superman’s populist early days and fighting 5th dimensional insanity. But I will chime in that Demon Knights was one of the few New 52 books that completely worked for me. Shining Knight, Vandal Savage, etc. But the breakout to me (and maybe worth discussing some time Sean) was Exoristos -the ‘exiled’ Amazon. I don’t think we ever learned her origins.
Great show as always!
Anj,
Thanks for writing in! You know I agree on the change from Don to Dawn for Dove. She’s a criminally underused character.
Demon Knights was great. I think New 52 was most successful with all new or almost wholly reinvented minor characters (like I, Vampire).
It’s always a pleasure to hear Martin Gray on the Network. The re-envisioning of Cheetah works on every level and she is Diana’s most iconic villain. Her vicious and bloodthirsty nature contrasts sharply with WW’s “Warrior for Peace” character.
Post-Crisis revision: I really like the Michael Holt version of Mr. Terrific. He’s become an integral part of the DCU and a staple of the JSA. Also, post-Crisis Lex Luthor is my favorite Luthor.
As far as the New 52, I’m not as negative about it as some, but I can still probably tell you more about the changes I didn’t like during that era. One of my favorite books was All-Star Western. I’ve never been much of a Jonah Hex fan, but that run was awesome. Another unexpected favorite was the initial run of Batwing (the David Zavimbie version of the character).
As far as henchpersons, I always appreciate an appearance by Java whenever Simon Stagg wants to trouble Metamorpho.
Concerning bringing peace through travel: The NHS sponsor at my rural Appalachian high school arranged for us to alternate Spring Break trips to Montreal and New Orleans for us. Later, she said that a big motivation was the fact that so many kids in our class had never been outside the county, let alone the state or the country. Even travel in other parts of the US and North America can make a difference.
Super Captain,
Thanks for writing in!!
I love that NHS story! I chaperoned a few summer trips to Europe when I was a young teacher, and I saw a big difference in maturity in my kids who had traveled.
If you like old school Simon Stagg and Java, you should check out the recently cancelled Metamorpho series by Ewing/Lieber. You’ll love it.
Ah, this run continues to deliver. I wouldn’t call this a big issue, but it’s a big moment with Diana facing her first supervillain. And being anyone other than the Cheetah would have been a let down. She is THE Wonder Woman villain thanks to Challenge of the Super Friends, and the reinterpretation is excellent. Now that DC is embracing its entire history more, has there been or could there be a chance for Priscilla Rich and Barbara Minerva to team up? Oh, the possibilities.
But if I may, I was very surprised on my re-read that the Cheetah’s look was actually softer than in my head. Maybe it’s the inking by Patterson, but I expect her to be even sexier and fiercer than shown in this issue. I’m probably thinking of later covers with Perez inking it himself. Still, nothing’s wrong with how she looks here, but the images in my head kept her intro page from landing as strong as it should. I’m probably alone on that.
That’s all I can think of today. It’s summer show week at my theater, so I’m quite the basket case. But thanks for another great episode, Sean and Martin!
Tim,
Thanks for listening and writing in! I totally agree that only Cheetah could be the first super-villain faced by Diana. She’s iconic.
Great job, Sean and Martin! Had no idea that the cover was probably an homage.
It’s funny, I misremembered this as being a two-parter with the Cheetah. I know she comes back sooner than later, but now I’m not sure how soon. Excited to see how it happens all over again.
Sean, I am with you on 21 from Venture Bros. Great call!
My wife and I have been in our house for 30 years and I only really lived in the house where my parents still are for about 10, but that still feels like home.
I also want to give a sincere thanks to everyone who said nice things about my appearance as guest host. I had a blast.
Justin,
Thanks for listening! Cheetah will be back, though her origin will have some controversial elements. I love the Barbera Minerva version, however, spots and all.
Great episode as usual! Martin’s insights are always smashing! The homage catch was fantastic. I have no doubt that Martin was right that this cover was George’s mini-tribute to JLGL.
And best New 52 reboot – I agree with Anj that Demon Knights was great, but I also agree with Super Captain and loved All-Star Western! Jonah Hex in late 1800s Gotham – I really enjoyed that series. As for the Azzarello/Chang WW, I did not love it, nor did I hate it, but really found it an interesting read (similar to current Tom King run).
Paul,
Thanks for writing in!
I think the New 52 series that were outside of the mainline DCU had the best chances to succeed because they weren’t being compared to their predecessors. Demon Knights was especially fun.
Another great entry, Sean and company! Was a big fan of this version of the Cheetah – though, truth be told, I wasn’t all too familiar with previous versions.
Thanks for listening and writing in, DAG!
Cheetah tracked down Diana and attacked her. If Diana had been south of Boston, I wouldn’t have taken much notice. Cheetah could have skulked her way through the Boston system of parks known as The Green Necklace, and wended her way through the Arboretum to the Great Blue Hills to attack Diana in Canton or Holbrook. Even though that might put Dr. Anj at risk of a Cheetah attack! However, Diana is in Wakefield, north of Boston. Just for Cheetah to even leave the city, she’d have to cross a river! Then she’d have to cross another! This is easily done in a motor vehicle on the highway, or even following the railroad track that goes to Wakefield. Of course there are pedestrian sidewalks along a bridge or two, but they are well-lit and generally busy even at night! I love imagining Cheetah traversing her way through the narrow crowded streets of the North End, crossing the Charles River into Charlestown and then having to cross the Mystic River as well! Back then she could have stopped at Mike’s Donuts, they were open late. Now she’d have to resist going into the Encore casino! She might take the long way through the Middlesex Fells for some forest cover, but that still means going through some busy neighborhoods. I wonder if Julia was arrested for using a rifle in Wakefield at Lake Quannapowit?
Terry,
Your layout of Boston is awesome! I can’t see Cheetah crossing two rivers for any reason. Cats hate water.
It’s funny how many great movies are named after parts of Boston. My foavorite “Boston-themed” movie is definitely The Town. What’s yours?
Great show! Having Martin as the guest always classes things up. I’m enjoying my re-read of Wonder Woman as I listen to the podcast episodes. The Cheetah revision is great. Much more of threat than the old version.
I agree with you guys that Diana’s babe in the woods routine was a bit much. If she’s upset about Barbara lying about the girdle, wait until she finds out Julia has been skimming money off the top during the entire peace tour!
I love your deep, but justified, suspicion of Julia Kapatelis.
Awesome show – it was so fascinating to learn the origin of the Cheetah! Are you keeping up with the new Cheetah and Cheshire Rob the Justice League miniseries by Greg Rucka and Nicola Scott? Rucka’s recent interview really highlighted his love of this origin for Cheetah and how it gives Cheetah such a tragic connection to Diana!
Ian,
I just read the first issue of C and C Rob the Justice League! It’s a lot of fun and Nicola Scott’s art is amazing.