On this episode of Peace Bound and Down: A Wonder Woman Podcast, Sean is joined by Dr. Christopher Maverick from VoxPopcast and Oh Gosh, Oh Golly, Oh Wow: An Excalibur Podcast, to discuss issue 16 of volume two of Wonder Woman. It’s the second half of the Silver Swan two-parter that introduces the character to the post-Crisis Wonder Woman. Is she a villain, a victim, or a product of the 1980’s? And, is that Superman that Wonder Woman is kissing?!
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- Promos:
- The Detective Phase – Waiting For Doom
Bringing a little peace to man’s world each month.
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First a question when you watch the original teenage mutant ninja turtles cartoon or any or the adaptations do see them as brown or is it like the
Hulk ?
And now my secret question?
Let’s say this Wonder Woman ended up one of the
Teenaga mutant ninja turtles universes ?
Who would like to see her team up with ?(note any version of tmnt that has bin seen on tv or movie or any of comic universe’s IDW , Archie comics , Saturday morning adventures, last ronin , Mirage comics , original , powerrangers x tmnt , Naruto x tmnt , )
Also how about this ship not for Diana but what if two real hero’s saved the silver swan and her pen pall and writer decided to pull a weird twist and give silver swan 2 a harem . Here’s the two (nobody a tmnt universe version of Batman ) and forgotten indie comics hero the Flaming Carrot ( a comic book version of Don Quixote)
Flaming Carrot forgotten? Them’s fightin’ words in these parts, mister.
Where I’m from I’m the only one who knows about him and that even any reviews of his books on YouTube I know I’ve checked .
Some people don’t even know the flaming carrot is real leader of the mystery men
Bucky – Thanks for writing in! I have never been a big TMNT fan, so I wouldn’t know who Diana would match up with best. However, in another comic universe, I’d love to see Diana team up with Archer and Armstrong from 1990s Valiant.
I’d suggest watching tmnt metalhead the original version free to watch on YouTube
And Netflix if you have watch rise tmnt the first episode. The 2007 tmnt movie .
That will give three different versions
I certainly am not a Wonder Woman/Superman shipper. However, the idea that Diana could be attracted to Superman is that he is the closest thing to a ‘god’ she is going to find a man’s world. On several occasions, DC has come close to getting this right, but they have always fallen short of the mark. Diana has a ‘schoolgirl crush’ on Superman. (The crush is her idealized version of a “man”. She has grown up with the mythology of Greek gods and let’s face it, they are as all…flawed..to put it as kindly as possible. She sees the illusion of Clark as a god, without the baggage. Poor Diana…time to learn everyone has baggage. For his part, Clark has got to wonder what it would be like to have a sexual partner that he doesn’t have to treat as if they were “made out of cardboard”. (see his famous world of cardboard speech from the DCAU). The correct circumstance is for Diana and Clark to end up having sex once. They both realize that it was a really bad idea and they’re going to pretend like it never, ever happened. Diana realizing that the idea of her attraction/crush was best left to her imagination. So, there is value in creating a very temporary Wonder Woman/Superman ship, but it is a ship with more holes than Swiss cheese.
If Diana is going to have a male superhero ‘ship’, the only one that makes any sense is Wonder/Bat. Why? As Batman remarks (JLU episode “This Little Piggy”)
“You’re a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I’m a rich kid with issues, lots of issues.” That would be fertile emotional ground to explore.
Rob – Thanks for listening and writing in! I agree that it is more intriguing in thought than action to pair Superman and Wonder Woman. I also love the idea of Bruce and Diana. It wouldn’t last, but man it would be fun to watch.
Great to have a new episode and a new guest, welcome to Mav. It’s a good job he didn’t want to be addressed as ‘Dr Chris’ as we already have one of them. It’s funny, on UK entertainment shows, when they have a TV doctor on they’re almost always billed as ‘Dr’ this or ‘Dr’ that when they’re not there in a professional contest, they’re there because they’re professional celebs. I tip my hat to medics, scientists and academics for the amazing work they’ve put in – and goodness me, Mav has earned his stripes – but on a show like this we’re all equal, so good on him for recognising that.
It was fascinating to hear how with every year the relationship of kids to 9/11 is changing. You teachers are so patient, I’m really not impressed by students being so unengaged by something that happened before they were born, especially if it’s recent. The British version of The Chase quiz show regularly has Generation Z contestants who are totally unembarrassed by their lack of knowledge in basic history, telling host Bradley Walsh, ‘Before my time, Brad.’ It’s like they’re studying solipsism, they have no interest in a world they weren’t in.
Sean, when those thermometers dropped, how come you never became a mercury-powered superhero? Or are you holding out on us? What’s this ‘had to be classified as a chemical spill’ business, anyway? I shall look it up.
I like the Wonder Woman #16’s cover. OK, it’s not busy enough, but…
This wasn’t a half-bad issue, though all the soap surrounding Valerie was tedious, the whole penpal plot should’ve been excised. The best bit of the issue was the classic tiara tossing and wing severing.
Is that Julius Schwartz panicking at the bottom of page one?
I totally agree with Mav that there was no need for a new Silver Swan, excellently put!
You may well know, Sean, but just announced today, a second volume of the Perez Wonder Woman – what’s that on InStockTrades then.
The Tom King and Barnaby Bagenda Omega Men was indeed pretty decent, though confusing at times.
Martin – Thank you for listening and writing in!
I really do think that the original Silver Swan had a much better origin (and costume), which also had a closer tie to Greek mythology. This iteration just doesn’t sing for me (sorry…).
I was excited to provide Mav’s introduction to the network. He’s a blast to have as a guest.
So see, Sean, I feel like you bring such a great academic bent to your shows, that I fear Mav’s shows would prove how much a doofus I be, I’ll stay here in the corner with my pointy hat. But such a great and funny conversation! Absolutely loved it!
I do have a question on a small beat in the issue. The charity organizer really lashes out at Diana about enjoying the adulation. But the event was deliberately named the “Wonder Woman Fair”, banking on her popularity to bring in money for the fundraising. So isn’t that hypocritical? Whether that organizer liked the idea, she was fine with including Diana at all, regardless of how far the promoting got, because it would help with their financial goals. You can’t ask a celebrity to be present and then be surprised that the crowds are just interested in the celebrity. I understand the story moment of giving Diana an uncomfortable life lesson, but there’s a little miss on the delivery.
Oh, so this Silver Swan story line goes off into limbo. Figures. I hoped she’d had more returns under Perez since she does appear in JLA/Avengers #3, but that must have more been George simply wanting to draw her again, and she was with other sound-based villains as they appeared in this era, like Sonar and Silver Banshee.
As for great women villains, outside of comics I go to Kai Winn from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. She’s complex, intelligent, and utterly convinced she’s in the right while doing the most awful things. In comics, too many to choose from but a particular choice is on my mind thanks for starting to revisit Avengers: Under Siege. Moonstone. An expert manipulator, smart, powerful, and ruthless. It’s a shame she was so underused, before Thunderbolts, of course. (And thank you for the shout out!)
Gosh, are we really that close to Perez stepping back from drawing the interiors? At least your excellent podcast will continue.
Tim,
Thank you for pointing out how mean the charity organizer is to Diana! Her calling out the focus of her own charity event is so hypocritical.
Moonstone is such a great villain. I love that Stern and later writers don’t shy away from a truly evil female villain. She’s especially great in Thunderbolts.
Speaking of “Under Siege”…..
the Sean for AZ Chronicles is really taking off. I think we can milk 5 or 6 seasons out of your misadventures, Sean.
DAG – And here I’ve always believed that I led a boring life. 🙂
Great show, as always. I have to disagree and say I really liked the cover. It’s vintage Perez. Reminds me of one of his older Avengers covers, minus the word balloons. The action inside is great, a serious down and dirty fight between Diana and Silver Swan. Perez really sold the danger of the collapsing ferris wheel. Seeing Steve catch that falling kid, all I could think was “oh man, his back!” Mine hurt just reading the panel.
Favorite female villain? Madelyne Pryor of course! And no, not just because of the outfit! Okay, mostly the outfit.
Based on Superman being my favorite hero and the long-time crush I had on Linda Carter’s Wonder Woman, I was actually interested in seeing the two heroes hook up. Plus, at that point in the comics, John Byrne was writing Lois Lane as a mean lady with Webster’s mom’s hair who was always rude to Clark. I felt Supes could do better. So, mark me down as one of those big stupid idiots. Hey, maybe I’m not smart enough to use the right fork for my salad or read Keats as a toddler, but darn it, I wanted those two crazy kids to take a chance on love. The result? Meh, it turns out he’s better off with Zatanna.
“Webster’s mom’s hair” is one of the five funniest things I’ve ever read.
The cover is great, but George sets such a high bar that it’s not even in my top 100 for him. What a legend.
That cover was like a triple for Perez. For anyone else it would be a home run, but this is the guy who did Crisis 7. At least we got a new female villain out of it. As for favorite female villain, it’s got to be Harley Quinn. both the comic and Margot Robbie versions. Also Brett’s Right. At the time this came out, John Byrne had kind of ruined Lois Lane. He should at least of had a fling with Wonder Woman.
Nate – Harley is a great choice! This might be controversial, but my favorite iteration of her is from the HBO cartoon (voiced by Kelly Cuoco).
Finally, all the short track Nordic bobsledding at the Olympics is over and I can catch up on podcasts.
Good show this month. It is always interesting to hear from someone for whom studying comics is their actual job. I think that I’ve mentioned before that I took a hiatus from buying and reading comics around the time that I graduated from high school. One reason was that our local newsstand closed in my small hometown, but another was the feeling that it was time to “grow up” and focus on more intellectual pursuits. I knew exactly one person in college who was reading comics. It was another five of six years before I picked up comics again while I was in grad school. They were my escape from the academic grind. I burned out on academia when I was in my doctoral program and dropped out early. Maybe, if comics had been part of my field of study I could have stayed the course. Or maybe I would have burned out on comics too.
As far as favorite female villains, I have mentioned The Evil Queen from ABC’s Once Upon a Time and the Baroness from GI Joe. In comics, I lean toward Catwoman, Star Sapphire, and Diamondback. One name that I haven’t seen mentioned is Mystique. I love the idea of the evil shape-changer.
Having read only about two issues of pre-Crisis WW, I had no idea about any previous iterations of The Silver Swan so this one worked for me. Again, my Wonder Wifey and I enjoy the podcast. Thanks for making it!
Thanks, Super Captain!