It’s the eighth excellent episode of WHO’S WHO REVIEW! Shag and Rob take a fresh look at classic entries from Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe, featuring Batgirl, Raven, Mad Hatter, Blackfire, Blackjack, Dr. Tzin-Tzin, Mantis, Red Bee, and more! Plus we cover YOUR feedback!
As promised in the episode, below are links to download XUM’S WHO: XUM YUKINORI’S ADDENDUM TO THE DEFINITIVE DIRECTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE. Be advised, these are very large file sizes (100+MB) – Requires a program that opens CBR files:
- Volume I: https://www.fwpodcasts.com/xy/xumswho/Xums.Who.Vol.01.2024(digital).cbr
- Volume II: https://www.fwpodcasts.com/xy/xumswho/Xums.Who.Vol.02.2024(digital).cbr
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I haven’t listened to this episode yet, but want to pass this along to any hardcore collectors: The recently released Metamorpho #4 has a panel where part of the original Metamorpho Who’s Who entry is displayed on a giant computer screen.
I’ve always had a special place in my heart for the Red Bee ever since I learned of his existence, mainly because he’s a hero from my old home state of Oregon. But honestly, I kind of love everything about him, from that outlandish costume to the fact that he has a pair of pet bees that he deploys like a super power. Nice to know somebody published a collection of his original appearances in Hit Comics – I’ll have to look into that.
And Shag, if you want a second opinion on Blackfire from someone picking those comics off of the racks at the time, I liked her quite a bit: she had a cool look (and yeah, I also thought she was kind of hot), cool powers, solid back story and motivation, and it’s always cool when a formidable female villain is introduced. And while I see Rob’s point about the Teen Titans not really fitting with the outer space milieu, at the time I just ate completely ate up that multi-issue space opera arc – I thought it was epic.
By the way, Shag, Perez’s 50+ issue run on Teen Titans is pretty damn respectable. The Claremont/Byrne run on X-men, which you mentioned by way of comparison, only lasted 36 issues.
I was going to mention Byrne was only on X-Men for three years, but he casts a shadow on that franchise nearly as large as Claremont.
I dont remember what forever evil was but my diary says “I WISH id thought of that
As for Batgirl I just think a lot of people did’nt like her. There’s a reason Jim Gordon not the one that ended up in the wheelchair
much like Punisher I locked myself in my room and was not gonna come out till I came up with a really good Doctor zin ZIN story. All I GOT was hungey.
Thank you, Uncle Rob and Uncle Shag, for another fun episode of what is now the Who’s Who Review Quarterly. At this rate, the third volume of XUM’S WHO will be available by the time you run out of Volume II entries to cover…
Speaking of, thank you for posting the digital links of XUM’S WHO Volume II. Volume III may actually have some additional entries if any on this list end up being a half-page. For example, Dad’s write up for Mazdan is pretty short, so the future criminal may share the page with a goofy sidekick from the past…
I few brief notes on some of the entries you covered, as well on some comments from the feedback.
BATGIRL: Like (and unlike) Dr. Anj-Anj’s dramatic reading of Dr. Tzin-Tzin’s history from his entry, L.A.N.O.S. performed a monosylabic reading of most of the history section of this Batgirl entry in episode 8 of Dad’s DONE-IN-ONE WONDERS PODCAST WONDER SHOW.
I do not understand Batgirl’s “semi-retirement” staus mentioned in this entry either. The CRISIS series later (as in a few months publishing time later) depicted Batgirl as an active crimefighter that seemed so overwhelmed by everything that was happening during the event that she wondered how much of a difference she was really making as a costumed hero. And perhaps that experience, as well as Supergirl’s death, may had led to her considering retirement…
BLACKFIRE: That pose would indeed look good on a Super Powers Collection action figure card. In fact, all of the main character poses of these featured entries would look good on action figure cards.
George Pérez once said in an interview in COMICS INTERVIEW #50 that Blackfire was his “tribute to women in leather”, though in her first story the inker did not ink in all of the black areas of her costume, so she didn’t look like she was wearing leather at all, more like indigo workout tights. This entry inked by Mr. Pérez definitely corrects that…
HOUNGAN: George Pérez really put all of his effort in an entry for a character that, to use Uncle Shag’s comment about Starfire, never really did anything for him. Astounding!
From a George Pérez interview in COMICS INTERVIEW #50, page 43: “Houngan never turned me on, one way of the other. The idea of electronic voodoo I’ve just never thought was all that great.”
THEA: My dad enjoyed the New Teen Titans series until around the time the Titans intersected with CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, because he felt the storylines were becoming more drawn out then before, seemingly for the purpose of creating drama for drama’s sake. He planned to pick up the series again when he heard about George Pérez returning to the book (in THE NEW TITANS #50), but he started a few issues earlier because he heard there was a story bringing back the Children of the Sun as well as Chris King and Vicki Grant from DIAL ‘H’ FOR HERO. Dad loved that iteration of DIAL ‘H’ and was also intrigued by Thea’s “Children of the Sun” plot thread at the end of Lilith origin story. Dad told me he was very disappointed with how the story depicted both concepts — the Children of the Sun especially because post-Crisis they were no longer the sons and daughters of Thea…
RAVEN: I read in the same George Pérez interview in COMIC’S INTERVIEW #50 (page 56) that Raven’s changing face (noted in-story in THE NEW TEEN TITANS Baxter series #1, as mentioned by Uncle Rob) was originally due to Mr. Pérez’s evolving art style. Said Mr Pérez: “When we received a letter from someone saying, ‘Hey, you know, I’ve noticed that [Raven’s] face has been changing. You’re making her look almost demonic. Was that deliberate?’ It wasn’t, then, but it became that way from that point on! (Laughter.) That’s when we decided to use that scene inside TITANS #1, based on that one letter. It started as something I was doing because I was adapting my [art] style. then I suddenly decided to use [it as] a story element. The face was changed, but it wasn’t because George Pérez’s style was changing, it was because it was a deliberate change. So it was an accidental deliberate change.”
BLACKJAK: Blackjak’s ommission was first noted in the letter column of WHO’S WHO issue 13, with editor Len Wein saying that was “an omission they regret.” It was suggested a little later that he would be featured in the WHO’S WHO YEARBOOK (which I presume was an double-sized Annual featuring new and forgotten character entries), which would later become the WHO’S WHO UPDATE mini-series, but then he surprisingly showed up in the “Plus” section of WHO’S WHO #26. That issue’s letter column said that Blackjak was added because readers “demanded him”, as opposed to entires for Angel and the Ape and Neutron, who “were accidentally left out.”
What’s interesting is that this “Plus” entry actually hid Blackjak’s listing from whoever was removing the entries of the other ATARI FORCE characters from the master list for the WHO’S WHO OMNIBUS due to an expired license…
RIMA: The story of how Rima joined the Super Friends may be revealed in another XUM’S WHO-related project I want to do…
Too bad about the KILLER MOTH pitch being rejected by DC. According to Steve Englehart’s website, the third BATMAN: DARK DETECTIVE series was going to bring back Killer Moth reimagined by the late Marshall Rogers. Mr. Rogers pencilled the first issue before he passed, and it includes a teaser image of the new Killer Moth that looks really cool…
Uncle Rob’s story of having to rerecord his VIVA KINEVAL! podcast coverage reminded me of what happened to Dad a number of times working on DONE-IN-ONE WONDERS. One of these incidents led to the partially recorded “lost” episode (“Tales of the Terra-Man”) that was released two years ago. Another incident happened in episode 5, where the microphone connection to the computer resulted in feedback static over the second half of the Reverse Flash lines, which Dad had to record again. Applying Uncle Rob’s example to the show continuity, it is the equivalent of my dad offering to break Reverse Flash out of prison again just long enough to rerecord the show and them send him back — which I am sure Eobard Thawne would not be agreeable to (especially after what Dad did to Thawne’s finger during the initial recording)…
Until next quarter, Gentlemen, I remain,
Pluggy McPlugface
(A.K.A. Isamu)
Isamu, great back matter! Thanks for sharing.
maybe blackjack didnt get an entry cuz there are 50 billion super-types named Blackjack
Yeah—Xum even made an entry for the Blackjack who was an enemy of the golden age Aquaman.
Excellent episode gentlemen, thank you. Always a pleasure.
As for Rima – it looks to me like she was public domain by the time her comic was out. I’d guess the appearances on the Superfriends were easy to pull off because of that. And probably obscure enough that the audience might have thought she was an original character.
Beyond the “we forgot to include her” potential excuse, the only thing I can think of is that she was a public domain character and they didn’t want to include her? Of course that makes zero sense to me as well. Maybe someone else has a better idea.
And Rob – I met Kristen Bell (at Star Wars Celebration) in 2007, just prior to her meeting Dax Sheppard. I may have been (and am still) married to my wife …. But, let’s face it. Despite that, you know what I’m going to say next. It should have been me and not that Mort.
So, another episode of Who’s Who is in the can. I continue to be amazed at how you find new things to talk about of pictures you’ve seen before. I’m having trouble coming up with anything new to say.
I do agree with Rob that anyone whose name graced the title of a strip should have been listed. Especially since the original premise of the series was suppossed to be a history of the DC Universe. So I don’t understand some of the choices they made. Using some characters who only made one or two appearances, and ignoring other characters who had series that ran for years. Pep Morgan and Tales of the Arrowmaker ran almost ten years each, yet neither Pep or Gray Beaver “Arrowmaker” were listed. Jack Woods, their first cover feature, should have been listed for that reason alone. Hopefully Mark Waid will followup his recently announced New History of the DC Universe with a new version of Who’s Who. One can only dream.
Actually, I believe Pep Morgan was the first character to have an in universe crossover in 1940 when the Spectre briefly showed up in his strip.
The Red Bee is actually prominently featured in the Scott Koblis wraparound cover for the aforementioned NHOTDCU No. 1. In the lower right hand corner next to golden age Green Arrow and behind what may be Butch, the Pup. In any case, it features hundreds of characters from DC’s early years, many of them from companies DC aquired later. Including at least two DC didn’t have the rights to previously, if they are who I think they are.
Yes, Rob, I have seen Debra Winger’s costumed appearance on the Letterman Show. And lo and behold, here is another of my earliest crushes, Batgirl herself–especially the Yvonne Craig version.
I just can’t get over thinking that Deimos looks like he’s been raiding Madelyne Pryor’s closet from when she was the Goblin Queen. Rule 63, I guess?
Artistically, Doctor Tzin-Tzin’s entry may be my favorite of the entire series. And nice job w/ letting Dr. Anj celebrate another one of his favorite’s.
Count me as a fan of Houngan and the rest of the New Brotherhood of Evil and only partly because one of the members is a gorilla w/ a bandolier. I like both Mad Hatters and one of my favorite bits from the Adam West show is his super-instant mesmerizer, a pair of hypnotic eyes that pop out of his top hat.
Finally, I saw Rima way back in one of her appearances on the Super Friends cartoon, but when she seemingly disappeared never to be seen again, I thought that maybe I had imagined the character. I didn’t really learn anything about her history until listening to one of your podcasts. It was probably an episode of Rob’s Super Friends show.
Thanks for all the joy that this show brings.
Great episode guys!
Based on the order of joining the network, I’m the Elongated Man?! Awesome! I’ll take being the Ductile Detective and being married to Sue. I get a great marriage and get to be a widow young enough to hit on more heroines. Shout out to Jean Loring and her moon boots!
Hearing about Thea reminds me of the precipitous drop in the quality of the writing in New Teen Titans (Baxter series) from issue 7 onward (once Perez leaves the book). It’s no fault of the art (JLGLPBHN followed by Eduardo Barretto). But man did the book fall off a cliff. Azrael? Danny Chase? Was Poochi not available?
Great episode!
The Legion gerrymandering is absolutely as ridiculous as you think. Ultra Boy should be named “See through lead boy”, because that’s the power he has unique to Superboy. Mon-el would have the even clunkier name of “Use Kryptonian-equivalent superpowers near Kryptonite lad”.
And if Superboy quit and then tried to rejoin while those two were also on the team he’d have to be “See through copper near lead boy”. Ultra-boy’s penetra-vision can’t see through copper, see. And while Mon-el could do that, he only can with technological assistance (the anti-lead-poisoning serum), which means it doesn’t count.
My top 3 going by art
Rima the jungle girl doesn’t count as other ways she would be first place .
3. Black Fire
2. Red bee
1.lighting lass
(Character she lighting lass is the only one of
The three of read it was story staring jimmy Olsen where she and some of female legion girls pretended to treat JIMMY like Archie, so his girlfriend would treat him better it didn’t work out as well as they planned because she slept the entire time. Didn’t see all the
Heroic Stuff Jimmy did. I can’t remember what comic it was.) I also can’t remember he had two legion errors were in the story. I think it was an issue of legion superheroes but I don’t know what issue it was. Is there any legion experts out there? Maybe you can let me know I read it in a DC showcase of legion superheroes I’m pretty sure.
I believe this story was in Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen #76: “Elastic Lad Jimmy and His Legion Romances!”
Thanks Mr . Isamu sir .
I read it in a dc showcase
I think Lana lang was member of the legion as well at one point but I doubt that she was part of legion in the current time line .
I wouldn’t be surprised to find she was, given upcoming issues of Action Comics by Mark Waid!
Batgirl was probably at a low point in popularity at the time of Who’s Who. Batman Family was cancelled and Dick was just becoming Nightwing and with Starfire in New Teen Titans. Don’t think DC had much of an idea what to do with her.
Blackfire? She was the bad girl foe of the Titans and yes Shag She was hot.
I like to think Dr. Tzin-Tzin slightly changed his name and went from fighting Batman to fighting Jonny Quest.
Yay!!! Who’s Who Review is back! What a killer lineup of artists. You may not care much about the character, but the way they are rendered here, wow. Batgirl may not have a dynamic pose, but the artwork is absolutely gorgeous. Does anyone else think the original Mantis looks like Kirby was trying to draw Loki while drunk? Anyone who’s someone would digitally add THE Black Racer to a James Bond skiing scene? Showing him touch all the bad guys as Bond does them in?
Was The Red Bee’s valiant death the greatest thing yo ever happened to him? His brave stand against Baron Blitzkrieg immortalized him. Just a few issues prior to his death Roy Thomas killed off several Quality Comics heroes and no one ever talks about them. The Red Bee is still a legend 40 years later.
Thanks for another entertaining lol at Who’s Who. And a very personal thank you for the very kind words. It was a pleasure to podcast with each of you. Not to mention, that my involvement in the Gordon Douglas episode of Fade Out brought Skullduggery into my life, for which I will be eternally grateful
I believe all those Quality characters have since come back from the dead except the Red Bee. Although the Red Bee was alive in the out of continuity Black Label Peacemaker Tries Harder. He does appear in the Koblis Variant cover for the forthcoming New History, as I mentioned above.
Great episode and yes it was chock-a-block full of entries I love.
Dr Tzin-Tzin – YASSSS!
The truth is my first interaction with him was Who’s Who and I was just blown away by the awesome art. Yes, it looks freakin’ awesome. Sienkiewicz make him look like a complete boss. But the guy is a joke otherwise. If you are intrigued in his Supergirl conflict, I reviewed it here:
https://comicboxcommentary.blogspot.com/2018/11/back-issue-review-adventure-comics-418.html
Often times people ask ‘when did you first discover X’. For some (like Wonder Woman), I can’t pinpoint it. But for some faves I can.
Creeper – Secret Society of Super-Villains #9
Hyathis – Showcase #103
Lightning Lass – I first discovered Ayla as Light Lass but began to really love her when she regained her lightning powers and became a bit more confident. The Vi relationship was hinted at strongly in the Baxter run but cemented/ in the open in 5YL. I really love the way Brigman draws her. That position is a little odd but otherwise lovely. As mentioned, the Legion constitution does restrict duplicate powers (Superman and Supergirl were exempt – as were their powers – because of their role as inspiration.) So yes, Ultra Boy’s ‘penetra-vision’ is what got him into the team. So yes, to keep Ayla around her lightning powers needed to be stripped. What gets me is that there is no build-up or story around it. Dream Girl just says in one panel that she used Naltorian science to change Ayla’s powers … ONE PANEL!! They were simpler times.
Red Bee – first learned of him as a tortured soul in Comic Book Limbo in Morrison’s Animal Man. Those Hit Comics covers are gorgeous. Who thought a super-hero fighting a swordfish on a comic cover would look so awesome!
Thia – yes, JLGL kills it but I think you guys aren’t giving that arc (where the Titans of old are trying to eliminate the Greek gods and reassert themselves) it’s proper due. It is a good read. And, most importantly, it introduced one of those characters that I alone love … KOLE !!!
Lastly, who didn’t have a crush on Debra Winger back in the day. Seriously, on the list of movie characters I would want to date, her lawyer character in the underappreciated Legal Eagles is definitely in the top 3.
I loved that time we had Kole’s Comic Book Commentary!
Remember when Mark Twain was doing flashback tales in the Baxter Legion book, Anj? Dream Girl’s changing of Ayla’s powers would have made for a great expansion.
You’re so right Mart!
Flesh that out!
‘Mark Twain’? Paul Levitz! I think there was a guest lecture on this cruise I’m on that was mentioned on cabin TV as I was typing…
Fun episode as usual guys. Just let the Randomizer randomize! If we get Firestorm and Aquaman in one episode, Highfather demands it!
Batgirl: DC of the mid-80s was REALLY down on the female heroes who were derivative of their popular male heroes. They made Batgirl have confidence issues, then brutalized her, exploited her, and crippled her. They killed Supergirl, then recreated her as Play-Doh that got put in a microwave. It took them a few decades to run Mary Marvel through the wringer. The treatment of Batgirl as we approached Crisis came as quite a shock. Her last great showing with the Batman Family was in the big anniversary issue of Detective Comics #526, which put Jason on the road to becoming Robin. As editor of Detective, Len Wein had replaced Batgirl’s backup strip with Green Arrow just a few issues prior in Tec #521. She then showed up in support roles taking care of her Dad, but that was it. Then came the scene between her and Supergirl in Crisis, where Babs, compared to the character we all knew, comes across as pretty cowardly, honestly. Maybe Len and Marv just didn’t like her?
Blackfire: I liked the Blackfire/Titans in Space storyline myself. I love the cover to Annual #1, where Starfire is triumphantly lifting her evil sister overhead, with Robin in “damsel in distress mode” at her feet below. The Teen Titans animated series (pre-Go!) had some fun with the character. Not as overtly evil, but still out to make her sister’s life a living hell.
Deimos: I only had Machiste from the Remco Warlord line, unfortunately. And Rob’s right, the prices on those things are nuts! On JLU, Deimos was modeled after, and made to sound like Christopher Lee, so I kinda like the guy now, bad fashion choices aside.
Doctor Tzin-Tzin: Full disclosure, as a kid, I didn’t like Sienkiewicz’s artwork. Too avant garde for my tastes. I appreciate it now, however. Doctor Tzin-Tzin is a bat-shit crazy character. There’s a Christmas story where he makes Batman fight a demon bear!
Mad Hatter: What makes things even more confusing about the Hatters, is the second, David Wayne Hatter was ALSO known as Jervis Tetch! In fact, he’s one of the few Batman rogues whose real name is regularly used in his appearances in the TV series. No Selina Kyle, E. Nigma or Oswald Cobblepot, but Jervis Tetch gets name dropped! Modern DC has taken the somewhat sympathetic, but no less troubling portrayal of the original, Lewis Carrol-like Hatter as a Alice-obsessed stalker from BTAS, and made him a very disturbing fetishist, with hints at pedophelia. BARF.
Mantis: I LOVED this guy’s Super Powers figure! I took the entry to heart and made him my #2 Apokoliptian bad guy. That redesign is flat awesome. I don’t think it made many appearances in non-SP comics. I know Art Adams snuck it into Lightray’s loose-leaf Who’s Who entry.
Raven: I was going to bring up Perez’s accidental/on purpose redesign of Raven’s face, but Isamu beat me to it. Perez slowly gave each Titan a more distinctive face, and this was the result. Seems like I have mentioned this before, but I think Raven may be the favorite Titan for cosplayers, due to the animated series.
Red Bee: I remember he got one panel in Robinson’s and Smith’s The Golden Age which basically read “The Red Bee had a dream he died in the war…” referencing his pre-Crisis death. But he did die at the hands of Dynaman in that Elseworlds series, too. So in the DCU he was always brought in just to die! Poor guy.
Thia: That storyline wasn’t the best (it introduced that whiny twit Azrael), but the artwork was by JLGL and was fantabulous.
Blackjak: Anyone else seeing Pedro Pascal here now?
Chris – man, you really hit the nail on the head in how DC was treating its lady characters! Awful, awful, awful. They deserved much better – particularly Babs. I never liked how KILLING JOKE is celebrated and touted as a great Batman story.
With what happened to Batgirl, Supergirl and Huntress (Helena Wayne), you really have to wonder what the writers had on the editors for Power Girl to get away with just being Atlantian!
I really don’t like Killing Joke, mostly because of what they did to Babs, but at least we got Oracle out of it. A character that’s semi-around to this very day.
Another great whirl with the Randomizer…
BATGIRL: I never before noticed that surprint image of the goon behind whacked on the head with a batarang. Yes, Rob, a well-executed pratfall is always a solid laugh; a personal favorite example is anytime someone falls in one of those carnival dunking booths. Whoever invented those deserves a Mark Twain Humor Prize.
DR. TZIN-TZIN: The original Who’s Who run began my lifetime fascination with Batman’s rogues gallery, even before the ’89 movie made me a general Bat-fanatic. So I got a thrill every time a bad guy I knew from WW showed up in the comics during the ’90s…but Tzin-Tzin never did (and I read nearly every Batman story of that decade). I actually think there’s a lot you could do with the character: A modern Fu Manchu with the added twist of secretly being a white guy. (Speaking of which, do you know the true story of William Ellsworth Robinson? He was an early-1900s stage magician who performed in yellowface as Chung-Ling Soo. Look up the story of his death; can’t believe no one has made a movie.)
HOUNGAN: I also think there’s a lot of potential in the concept of a high-tech voodoo guy, but Houngan’s costume is just too silly-looking (even as rendered by Lord George). Maybe he’d work better as a behind-the-scenes villain rather than a field operative.
THE MAD HATTER: Love him, classic Batman foe. (He featured in an awesome Gotham Central story arc about 20 years ago that I need to reread.) The chimpanzee is because he had a chimp sidekick for a while (including when he showed up in Knightfall.) I always tripped over the name “Jervis Tetch”—it’s so unusual, I spent a while trying to figure out if it’s some pun or Lewis Carroll reference I wasn’t picking up on.
MANTIS: One of my favorite comments from the first go-round of the Who’s Who podcast was when Rob complimented Mantis’s new robotic look, saying it allows him “to open pop-top cans with ease.” Also, I disagree that this was the best Super Powers character redesign: Steppenwolf’s was way better, going from a guy who looked like a magical elf in the land of mystic adventures to a hardcore badass with a giant ax of death.
RED BEE: Yes, he’s in the recent Peacemaker Tries Hard series, as Peacemaker’s wacky mentor/boss; here’s hoping he appears in a future season of the TV show. Also, I agree that his death in All-Star Squadron was awesomely dramatic. Finally, he showed up in Robinson’s Starman only once, when he and some other golden age heroes crashed Jack’s annual meeting with David’s ghost. The Bee is characterized as an annoying, insecure smart-ass, redeeming himself when praises Ted Knight as the one of the few heroes who didn’t mock his power set.
The red bee has returned
Now if we can just get some stories with him michael and lady bug going on adventures.
And I think I figured how Micheal the be lived so long. Wasn’t there a group of super smart animals that used the fountain of youth what if Michael the bee was there spy .
Dr. Tzin-Tzin did not get a great revival or a sudden jump to DCU stardom as some of the more obscure heroes and villains did post-Who’s Who / Crisis. Did he even appear in Crisis in the villains issues?
I would’ve though the art would’ve catapulted him into greater usage at least.
Batgirl is very subdued visually in both Who’s Who and very ‘defeated’ in Crisis, perhaps due to her less-than-stellar political career and a return to crimefighting? Or perhaps she knew already about a certain upcoming Joke that was to come with a knock at her door…
Martha Wayne was part of the Kane family before her marriage to Thomas Wayne. This was established sometime in the 90’s when DC was riding the wave of nBatman popularity. They published six or seven Secret Files and Origins devoted to the Batman.
When Kate Kane became Batwoman fifteen years or so later. It was established that Kate Kane was a cousin of both Kathy Kane and Bruce Wayne. Bat-Girl was always identified as Kathy’s niece which would make her probably Bruce’s cousin too (just a little bit more distantly related).D
Sometimes DC wanted to wrap up a bunch of coincidences with a bright red bow of continuity.
Having just read early issues of SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPER-VILLAINS, I can confirm that Mantis was indeed preposterously powerful.
Did I misread the entry, or does it seem to imply that Dr. Tzin-Tzin never appeared again after the Supergirl story? He was in Batman 285, 285 and 290 that came out after the Supergirl story. In 290, Batman dupes Tzin-Tzin into helping defeat “Skull” Dugger, the true villain of the issue. Tzin-Tzin probably is better known that he should be better known than he should be because Neal Adams drew Tzin-Tzin’s second appearance, The House That Haunted Batman. The story was co-written by Len Wein, who also wrote Tzin-Tzin’s clash with Supergirl.
*Sigh* Batgirl *Sigh* Back in the day before VCRs and the internet, all we young nerds had to crush on were our favorite female comics characters. Babs/Barbara was always my main “comic book crush.” Considering that I have more statues, action figures, merchandise of her than any other character other than Batman himself, I guess I still do harbor a little crush on Batgirl. Hmmmm….well, I don’t have a crush on Batman and I do have more stuff of him. Sorry, nerd tangent, there.
I hate how mistreated she was in the mid to late 1980s. The Who’s Who Entry was the first reference to Babs retiring as Batgirl that I remember. Before the Killing Joke, the real damage to her character occurred in Batgirl Special, which came out in 1988. In Detective 491-492, Batgirl was traumatized by a character named Cormorant, but she heroically battled through it…with Batman’s help. He wanted to restore her confidence. How different is that from today’s surly, hateful Batman? Anyway, the Batgirl Special retconned the story so that Barbara never got over the trauma, and she just up and quits being Batgirl at the end of the Batgirl Special. She goes from a brave hero overcoming her fears to a coward. I really hate that Batgirl Special…almost as much as I hate Green Arrow, whom I never forgave for stealing Batgirl’s back-up in Detective. Why should I want to read about some loud-mouth know-it all third-rate Batman rip-off (Arrow Cave? Arrow Car? Really!!!!!) when I can read about *sigh*Batgirl *sigh*
BTW, I did have to look those issue numbers up and didn’t remember them off the top of my head. I’d worry about myself if my nerd memory was that good.
While I am not the biggest Superman fan in the world, I was once known as a Superman apologist, so I feel like I can speak with some authority here.
The Who’s Who entry on Kryptonite was good. It’s a fun entry. I’m glad it exists.
Y’all should not feel any guilt over not giving it more space. You had a lot of characters to talk about and while the Pre-Crisis versions of Kryptonite are interesting and worth talking about in detail on a Superman podcast, digging for Kryptonite on this show shouldn’t even be a one way street.
I’m absolving you of any guilt you (probably don’t even) feel. Everyone that disagrees can take it up with me.
In other news, as someone that has re-listened to the whatever is the entire run of Who’s Who podcasts at least once a year since the show began I love when y’all tell the same stories again in these Review episodes. I’m not joking. As someone that has podcasted a time or two I am well aware of the fact that once you have finished recording/editing the episode everything you said disappears from your brain and you will say the same things again and again. I love hearing the stories and the jokes again and look forward to more in the future.
Okay, had to come back to comment. The Dax Shepard bit made me laugh. Like a lot. Because Rob is not wrong.
I also commend Shag for not going on a 30 minute rant about how he hates Dax for what that man did to Shag’s beloved CHiPs.
Unless Rob just cut that out. Which is fair.
Thanks for a great show, boys. Now Rob is ending podcasts willy nilly, you can go monthly. No need to thank me.
BATGIRL: Shagg, this IS the original Batgirl costume, only the bodysuit is lighter than in the first few appearances and the utility bag (ie a bag) has gone.
BLACKFIRE: How is Blackfire hot with THAT nose?
LIGHTNING LASS: Making Ayla into Light Lass was so much more interesting than having two people with lightning powers, I never liked the idea that she could only be a badass with bolts – it’s especially odd that Paul Levitz was involved, given how adept he was at showing new uses for Legionnaires’ powers – I don’t doubt he could’ve found a way to make her light powers devastating against Mekt in Baxter Legion #6. And PINK lightning? That costume was OK, but the white tights look weird.
RAVEN: When she was purified and we got the white look shown here, DC missed a trick in not naming her the new Dove.
RED BEE Why did artist Rick Hoberg not show Head Bee Michael? Maybe he’ll get proper respect in Xum’s Who.
Of course Michael lived 80 years to welcome the new Red Bee, he had Ian Karkull energy.
And you really should read Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters Shagg, it’s great comics by a great creative team.
BLACKJAK Shagg, there’s no need for additional punctuation in this entry as it says ‘lover’ and not ‘lovers’ – keep your ugly and unnecessary Oxford commas to yourself.
Also, do yourself a favour and read Atari Force.
XUM’S WHO? Excellent Rima piece, Isamu (and Xum).
Rob, who is this Spice-Masher you’d like to see in Xum’s Who?
Ketchup Entertainment has rescued the scrapped Looney Tunes and Coyote vs. Acme movies, so there is hope yet for the Batgirl movie.
Dr. Tzin-Tzin would have been a great villain for Richard Dragon if Denny O’Neil had created him.
I’m not sure about Batgirl. I know you can’t believe everything you see on the internet. But I believe the film was actually destroyed, not just pulled from distribution for legal reasons.
Y’know where you’re talking about Doctor Tzin-Tzin’s art there and you mention how the surprint has the woman’s arms coming up above the main image’s back and head? There is no woman. Those are Tzin-Tzin’s own arms and hands, and you can see his face framed in the space between the color image’s head and raised left hand. The bracers are slightly different between the two but hey, when you have such elegant hands with such long, slim fingers and prominent pointed nails why not have a nice selection of accessories to draw attention to them.
First, let me say I didn’t think it was possible, but I am enjoying the review version of Who’s Who podcast even better then your original. I love the randomness of the entries covered and how, like in this case, the Fates somehow decree a theme to the entries. Dr. Anj must be having lots of fun with this episode!
I have been on a tear with 70s and 80s non-superhero titles…sci-fi, fantasy, jungle adventure, you name it. The first mini-series I read was Rima. Robert Kanigher really showed his flexibility in this series and Nestor Redondo’s art is something to behold. I read somewhere that Rima and specifically her depiction in William Henry Hudson’s 1904 novel, Green Mansions, was as one of the first environmentalists. That really appealed to me and I was so enamored I ordered the book from Amazon.
Thanks again for a fun episode!
Shag, give Daredevil a break for a couple of weeks and read Atari Force.
Impressive podcast most impressive. Ah bat girl this is a pretty good drawing of her. Though yeah it is a bit still with her just standing there. The hip attitude helps it though. Ah Star Fires sister. Better pose. Ah Shagg finds her hot….. shocking lol. I kid.
Next character. Ah the Black Racer… well that happened. Love Jack Kirby’s work, but Oy. Moving on.
Ah I had the remo action figures. This guy guy and War lord . Took the wings off Morgan’s helmet but he fit in fine with my he-man action figures. Not sure about the costume one hand I find it tacky on the other hand I’m slightly turned on by. Him. Moving on.
– [ ] No this guy is no fighter. This pose would get him killed. Would take way too much movement to block anything. So yeah the pose fits a guy who can’t fight. It’s down right Don Knots on Any Griffin or Screech from saved by the bell Mc Dojo kung fu.
– [ ]
– [ ]
– [ ] So yeah it fits the character’s lack of skills. He’s like Jockso the mighty from Xenia. Warrior Princess
Next Hogan cool character, But only Perez could make this work. Oy though cool concept . Next
She’s part of the community so that’s cool. The art is good. That’s all I got. The outfit is ok.
Next.
Y’all right about that hater art, but that’s all I got. Not a fan of either. Next.
Mantis no not the cool one about the mech suited guy in a wheel chair. This… why did Kirby do it? Such a great artist with many great ideas…: and a few Oy ones like these no the idea is ok but that suit. Looks like a drunken stupor in physical form not the greatness of the work. This wasn’t one of those great moments. He does look a lot better in the superpower version and I’m glad got residuals from that
But this thing I don’t remember any yellow and green mantis looks more like Corn cob man than any sort of mantis. Kirby is the king, but this is just a nope. Moving along.
Raven looks cool. Not seeing home girl from the Star Trek the motion picture. More like the woman who played counselor Troy, but with straight hair. Or Cher . Cool costume though. Next.
Oh geez the red bee. It’s the SNL old killer bees joke. His outfit would make Elton John cry. In disbelief. And what is his skill? He throws bees at you. Oh not that. lol. Now I get that idiot line from Amazon attack comic moving on for sanity sake.
I have no response to this character. I guess they existed
Blackjack always liked the Atari force comics.the costume is Oy. But , for nostalgia sake, I’ll let it go.
The additive drawing done by the creator within the community of yawls podcast looks great all right can’t wait till the next episode.
As I was left on tenterhooks I had to check for myself, and apparently Thia (aka Theia) has not appeared in any other media!
(as an aside Theia was in an episode of Xena, and isn’t it weird that Xena and Wonder Woman never appeared together in comic book form? Oh well maybe with all the other tie-in DC is doing it’ll be next after the JLA finishes off Godzilla!)
I hate to admit it, but Warlord probably did the best handling of Atlantis in that era. Though when Power Girl went hunting for her origins there in defiance of the rest of the characters Grell put more clothes on her!
Lucy Lawless voiced Wonder Woman in the animated film “Justice League: The New Frontier”, which is their closest collaboration I could find outside of fan art.