This month Paul and Shawn welcome Andrew Leyland, host of the Overlooked Dark Knight and The Amazing Spider-Man from the Beginning, to the Reunion. We get the return of Man-Bat to the pages of Detective, as well as a “real” super villain as the Penguin takes on Robin! We get a tense bridge stand-off in a Tale of Gotham City, but the big headline for this issue is the 2-part Batman/Batgirl team up – will the Dominoed Daredoll ever be the same again? Stop by and try the grilled corn on the cob and UK chocolates to find out!
This month’s Bat Family History links for Romeo Tanghal:
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/main/features/creator.php?creatorid=530
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_Tanghal
https://www.instagram.com/romeotanghalsr/?hl=en
https://www.comicartfans.com/comic-artists/Romeo_Tanghal.asp?m=commissionex
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Great episode fellas! Always a pleasure to hear Andy on the network!
The Cover: Didn’t you know? That particular, one piece Batgirl costume was the version Barry Allen gifted Babs for Christmas 1979.
The Batman/Batgirl Story: A very strong tale, and I wish Cary Burkett had gotten more chances to write solo Batman stories. I always liked his stuff. The art is top-notch of course.
Man-Bat: I feel like Tanghal (thanks for that great history, Paul) is defintiely apeing Michael Golden’s version of Kirk a bit. Particularly that image you shared from page 7 with that giant rat. If E. Nelson Bridwell had written this tale, he would have somehow connected that giant rat to a previous, giant mutated animal menace story. Maybe his own Super Friends #13.
Robin: I remember being excited that Penguin showed up, but yes, the art is pretty stiff, especially in the same book with the lyrical work of Don Newton!
Sadly, I never had any of the Black Hole models. I didn’t see Black Hole until years later, either on VHS or during the early days of The Disney Channel, when they actually showed older Disney material.
I remember wishing those stamps in the DC ad were REAL stamps! I wonder if anyone was recalling the mid-70s Marvel Value Stamps when they came up with this one?
I’m not sure I ever saw the Black Hole models as a kud, either. But maybe next year! Since the last Black Hole Family Reunion, the company with the kit molds has announced an arrangement to rerelease them. (Up tonow, the joke has been sales wouldn’tbe enoughto pay a Disney lawyer for the time to find a pen and a piece of paper, but it seems to have been a side topic to another Disney property. )
Give it a try, cousin Shawn; they’ll probably cost something like 10 new comics, and you may find yourself wondering what it was that had you so worried.
Are you sure that’s not the same costume Barry gave Iris for Halloween that year? Hmm…
Hey old chums it’s cousin Bucky besides me and Jeremy I bought crazy uncle Zeus not that Zeus the one from the movie no holds barred . And Friday .
Also I uncle Brutus the barber beefcake who’s set up he’s wrestling ring Barbara shop free hair cuts .
And uncle hulk hogan . We no cheese barred nachos . 8 kinds of cheese . And bacon .
Wonderful episode! Andy is just pure joy and I love hearing him talk about Batman (and Spider-Man). Andy is also right about Don Newton being a woefully underrated Batman artist. I feel the same way about Irv Novick.
Hearing you discuss this issue makes the 1986 Batgirl special (with that amazing Mignola cover!) make much more sense. I never knew who Cormorant was or why she feared him.
Great job!
Sean
Impressive podcast most impressive . What no badly done cloths in this issue? I have nothing to point out in fashion wise …. The horror. The horror. Still cool episode as always. I will write in more later. To speak on this comic.
I think the only fashion faux pas was how the Batman costume on the splash page looked like a big onesie. Were they ever in style?
Impressive podcast most impressive. Kind of a cool cover. Good composition and all that. I don’t know, maybe they’re like booties on kids P. J. s or something. Or it’s like how Bruce hides the Bat Man mask under a normal mask when he’s pretending to be someone else. Oooh Bruce coming out of bed with no shirt on … sexy ness.
So scar is playing with his toy solders. Cool I too collect G I Joes and Action Force. Know idea why they couldn’t tell it was a mannequin. And not real Bab’s maybe it was here and the cops working together. Wait is she in her apartment or at Jim’s house dressed as Bat Girl?
Granted for the best. For her many crimes against Fashion. It’s best she stays in the costume. Thus her broken arm is the only injury. And not a he damaged done to others eyes from having to look at the eye soars she normally waits. Look even without someone dressing tacky I found a way to talk about the cloths. Whoow who! The second story is cool too.
Glad she beat what’s his face. Though he does come back for the annual that’s Babs last Bat Girl issue on a regular. Before the Crisis hits. And then Oracle happens. Which was great for her. In the long run . Though her back as Bat Girl is fine. Ah a Bob Haney story that doesn’t go into a weird direction? How is this not shown more? It’s a historical moment.
Nothing else to say about it. OH Shawn does the black and white TBS of Jessica Drew’s stories not count? I know it has two Volumes that starts from the issue ware Spider Woman fits Nick Fury to almost the end. I think the second one goes to that issue ware Morganna LaFay destroyed her body. But not to the Avangers West Coast issue brings her back to life with Tiara’s help.
And Jesica becomes a detective till BMB gives her the Spider powers back. That’s also not in the TBS. Stops were she in spirt form and the Mage guy fly off. Guess the guy was Merlin. I’ll have to go look through my copy. And see.
Next Man Bat. Wait he fought a giant Rat and he wasn’t in Hollywood or Washington? That’s shocking. Normal they stay there. Next story.
Ah Robin nice legs as always. And look the villain that is everyone’s fav the Penguin. I say this sense some crazy folks on line are crying over Penguin being a woman in the Caped Crusade Bat Man show . So has the Penguin been a big thing since the 60s show went off. Sorry to his fans.
I’m just like it’s not Joker , Ras or Two face sooo yah the crying in the street stuff folks are doing…. Sorry I-went on a tangent. Anyway back to reality as I leave my native Planet Clair . Any way the art is fine. The story is fine. Just the bird cage kind of looks like a…. Shape wise like a….. moving right along. Sh Romo Tanghal. He is a. Awesome artist. Though I always think of GI Joe when I hear his name since Larry Hama based Torpedo on him.
Cool drawing y’all got of a sketch he did of Star Fire. Anyway can’t wait to hear the next episode.
Thanks for another dose of diverting detection debate, Paul and Shawn, and how privileged you were to get Andy, do you know how much he’s in demand?
I like this cover, that little TV is so cute. I wonder if Jim Aparo thought the dead space in the cape would be used for blurbs.
So far as the Batman/Batgirl story goes, I do hope that the second that Bruce found out that Babs wasn’t dead he rang back to Wayne Manor to comfort Alfred.
I wouldn’t be surprised were the two chapters, Batman and Batgirl, always intended to be in the same issue, as Superman Family occasionally did full-length issues with stories featuring Jimmy and Lois and Superman et cetera that were all interlinked, and these were massive treats, and very popular. I expect you’ll be talking about these on a podcast sometime soon. I bags #200!
Is this the first time that Barbara having an identikit memory or whatever has come up? I certainly don’t remember her being ambidextrous. Was Cary Burkett trying very hard to give Barbara some natural advantages, something of her own?
As regards whether there was any connection between last and this issue’s story and Babs becoming Oracle, the story was referred to heavily years later in the Barbara Randall/Dave Gibbons Batgirl Special , which began with her admitting she was haunted by Cormorant’s shooting her. And she used computers to track him down.
To answer a question, I can say that UK newspapers only willingly print fake news stories on April Fools’ Day.
As regards my comment in the responses section, the Vimto anagram is ‘vomit’. I can’t believe that Shawn, ‘I read comics backwards to spot typos’, didn’t spot that! The name comes from a shortening of the soft drink’s original name of ‘Vim Tonic’.
Andy mentioned collecting Untold Legend of the Batman, and I can confirm that every issue did appear on UK newsstands.
Mr Leyland is younger (and better looking) than me, so let me say that we did get some Harvey Comics in the UK in the early Seventies – Hot Stuff and Wendy the Good Little Witch and Richie Rich Imports et cetera.
Charles Nicholas was a surprise on the Robin story… or rather ‘Charles Nicholas’ – it was a pseudonym for three artists… according to Wiki, at this point it was likely Charles Wojtkoski, creator of the original Blue Beetle, but it had also been used by Chuck Cuidera of Blackhawk fame and one Jack Kirby. I remember seeing his byline in an Elvira’s House of Bring Back Cain.
What’s up with Jack C Harris describing Pengy as ‘the dreaded Batman’s foul fowl foe’? What’s Robin, chopped chicken? Mind, massive applause for giving us an actual super-villain, and an A-lister at that!
Batman’s cast is more interesting than Superman’s? Oh bog off, which comic was the bigger hit again?
Shawn, I agree that the Man-Bat logo isn’t wonderful, but it would be so easy to fix – all they have to do is use the Batman logo outline with the ‘Man Bat’ letters a tad more shivery and put Kirk’s hairy head in the middle. The slant is just a bad idea.
Ta for another excellent creator focus, Romeo Tanghal is great, I loved that Phantom Stranger and Deadman story you mentioned. Will you be covering that on DC Super-Stars Symposium?
Test
Hello, all! Another fun episode, another issue with ups and downs.
Batman – “Here I Go Again” by Whitesnake
This may be 12 years before we hear the words “I am vengeance!”, but vengeance has been part of Batman since that night in the alley.
Batgirl may have come close to death before this, but not knowing who wanted her dead or why definitely unsettled her.
The layout on pages 9 thru 11 between Gordon talking to Barbara and Batman fighting Scarr’s henchmen was great! Gordon’s comment about Batman being driven by “some terrible secret from his past” – yeah, tell me Gordon doesn’t suspect a certain local billionaire of having a second identity.
I’m trying to figure out why they used the name Cormorant. It’s a coastal bird that feeds on fish and dives underwater. There have been naval ships named the Cormorant, but it’s not exactly a name that should inspire a hitman.
Batgirl – “Burning Heart” by Survivor from Rocky IV
When Batman Family went dollar-sized and later merged with Detective, it seemed like crossovers like this should have been more frequent. They weren’t, but when they did like this one, they were great!
Man, ol’ Cormorant turned into a chicken pretty fast. Criminals really are a cowardly, superstitious lot – especially in the DC universe.
Tales of Gotham City – “Bridge over Troubled Water” by Simon and Garfunkle
Ugh. This story has fifty million tons of soul and 3 Bobs, but no point?
The bridge’s architect died stopping the crooks and saving the bridge, which wasn’t really in danger. Was there a plot to blow up the bridge that I missed?
David saved Linda, but are they back together now??? Yeah, that relationship will last! She’s fickle, and he seems like the type that would use “I saved your life” to win an argument over what to have for dinner.
Man-Bat – “The Fireswamp and the Rodents of Unusual Size” from the Princess Bride soundtrack by Mark Knopfler (I don’t know the soundtrack that well, but I can’t be the only one that the giant subway rat made think of this)
Man-Bat’s back!! And Romeo Tanghal is pencilling??
Becca’s grown up a bit, she’s talking, and … she can hear her father nearby? Maybe rapid aging is also a side effect of having parents that can turn into human bats.
There is a gigantic rat in the Gotham subway tunnels, the authorities are dismissing the claims, and walling off the tunnel? Certainly we’ll find out more about this when M-B shows in up B&B, right? Well, I have my copy of that issue right here — uh huh – ooh — whoa! Okay no giant rat, but a feud in the Bat-Fam.
Robin – “The Bird” by Morris Day and the Time.
“He’s nuts, but he pays well” seems to be a common description of Batman’s enemies.
At least Robin has someone to deal with besides Hudson U. students majoring in pre-lawbreaking and their professors.
Batgirl by Don Newton is soooooooooooooo boss! Artists tended to not go for the “grim avenger of the night” thing when drawing Batgirl, it’s great to see her draped in Newton’s inky shadows,
Re: Tales of Gotham. Not to take anything away from the great Bob Oksner, AT ALL, but–boy does that painter’s pose on the splash page look A LOT like a certain wall-crawler when he took on the Man of Steel. Just saying.
I loved the “DC Stamps” house ad as a kid, and I still do, it’s so corny and old school. But, even as a kid, I thought “Batman and Robin appearing in…Batman” was a little bit of a “DUH” moment.
Great show as always!
Hello, Bat Fam! Again, another great episode. I was going to prepare a big meal, but I think I’ll wait until the last reunion. I guarantee the turkey will be a hit.
I do think that Batgirl onesie has to be the outfit Iris Allen wore before her death (45 year spoilers!) in Flash #275. How did it get riddled with bullets? I dunno, but Barry was a bit unhinged afterwards, wasn’t he? He could have stolen that onesie from evidence and had some shooting practice. This is just a theory, mind you, but we never did see what Barry did between panels.
The main Batman/Batgirl story was probably one of the best tales during this Detective/Bat Fam run, but I did have a couple of issues with the story. Barbara had not been shaken to her core like this and her internal struggle with maintaining the Batgirl persona was reasonable. However, if she had never been shot before until now, the shock of that trauma would be a little more difficult to overcome. Should it have taken longer for her to recover from the trauma? Maybe. I guess Cary Burkett had to show how much resolve Barbara had and can overcome being shot and her own doubts.
The other issue was with General Scarr. If he was such a brilliant strategist, why did he not confiscate Batman’s utility belt when he captured the Dark Knight Detective? One would think if Scarr was that smart, Batman would not have escaped from the trap so quickly. Ahh, the failings of an overinflated ego…
I don’t have much to say about the Tales of Gotham story, other than I did enjoy it. I think I’m so used to the bombastic, blockbuster action movie style of Bob Haney’s stories in the Brave and the Bold that this story wasn’t as memorable as those tales.
The Man-Bat story…oh boy. The story was fun, but where did that rat go? Why was it so gigantic? Yes, it’s crazy to see a man who turns into a human bat by popping a pill or two, but then a giant rat appears to terrorize people on a subway train? No wonder the Ratcatcher turned to crime. Even he thought that was too incredulous. And didn’t Man-Bat have a better logo the staff could use? You know, the one that was on the only two issues of the character’s 1975 series? Ehh, maybe I nitpick too much…
The Robin story was okay, but again, not the strongest story. I think the inclusion of the Penguin helped make the story more interesting. Again, I don’t think this era of Robin stories were all that interesting. The art was serviceable, but lacked much to be dynamic and distinguishable.
For the ads, seeing the Superman/Amazing Spider-Man crossover book makes me want to revisit that book. Two O.J. Simpson ads for Dingo boots and Sport-Bilt cleated shoes? Boy, does time make one look at those ads differently. For the DC stamps, I do think that was a Joe Staton Huntress head shot. Those were some fun stories. I was not a fan of the Nemesis stories. I think Gail Simone made the character more interesting in her Wonder Woman run. I do wonder how many of those stories were new or carried over from the planned DC Explosion from the late seventies. With a little research, I do know that the first OMAC story from the Warlord series was supposed to be in Kamandi 60 and did appear in the second issue of Cancelled Comics Cavalcade. And if you do a Black Hole podcast, I may have a guest you can have on the show.
Again, another great episode. For the next show, I hope I’ll have bought up enough gum so we can finally solve that perilous question that no one asked: What gum is better: Hubba Bubba or Bubblicious?
Hey, Bat Cousins, sorry I’m late (as usual apparently), but I was just casually strolling through a costume store in my gorilla suit when someone punched me in the face.
Pretty good Batman/Batgirl story this month. Andy is 100% right about Don Newton being the least appreciated Batman artist. Newton gets a lot more pages this month, which makes this story all the better. Thank goodness Batgirl was okay. I was afraid when she was shot several times by a machine gun that she fell a full 18 stories. Fortunately, she was shot several times by a machine gun and only fell 3 stories! What a relief! Speaking of her injuries, we got to see one of my favorite Batman tropes: bandages over the costume. Do these people know what bandages do? Has she even seen a doctor yet? Why is she still wearing the costume at home? And I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the Gordon estate seems to have gotten even bigger. The Commissioner has to be pretty mad at Frank Miller for giving him a crappy apartment in the reboot.
Overall, General Scarr is a lame villain, but I do appreciate the scale Gotham City model with little Batman and soldier figures. It’s a nice step up from the villain chess set. Plus, Scarr’s castle building has a lot of big rooms with trap doors and murderous machines. He should totally do a time share with Maxie Zeus. Great work by Batgirl overcoming her fear and giving that security guard the old, “I got my security pass right here!” I wish she had continued the trend with a “why’re you hitting yourself?” with the assassin, and “What’s the capital of Thailand?” with General Scarr.
It will never work out with Linda, and now old man Wainwright is dead. Happy, David?
The Man-Bat story was triggering for me from when I lived in an old house with my buddies in Rosslyn, VA (just outside of Georgetown) and we had a big rat in the house. I swear we were afraid to hit it with a baseball bat because we thought the rat would take it away and beat us with it. We finally got it with a ton of poison, but if I saw a rat the size of a metro car and nobody did anything about it, I’d move to another country.
Brilliant Bat History of Romeo Tanghal, Paul. I’ve never seen what a man named Romeo Tanghal looks like, but I just assume he’s always drawing at a small round table covered by a checkerboard cloth with an extended cigarette, a small basket of bread, and a glass of red wine.
Instead of commenting on an awful Robin story, I’ll just say; Shawn, for someone who doesn’t want to do a Superman Family podcast, you sure do mention doing a Superman Family podcast a lot. We will eventually speak this into existence.
Well, gotta go. Great Aunt Ethel was bringing a big wheel of cheese for the picnic and decided to take the subway. I smell a rat.