Return to Earth-Two, and the adventures of Mr. and Mrs. Superman! Chris and Cindy cover another tale of comics’ first couple from Superman Family #204 (December 1980), where the Thunderbolt calls on the Kents to help save his master Johnny Thunder! Plus, YOUR listener feedback from the first installment!
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Clip credits:
“Mr. and Mrs. Superman” by Terry O’Malley, of Stop Calling Me Frank https://www.facebook.com/rockSCMF
Superman serial (1948) opening theme by Mischa Bakaleinikoff
Adventures of Superman (1952-1958) closing theme by Leon Klatzkin
Superman, Lois Lane, Clark Kent, Superman Family, Justice Society of America, Johnny Thunder, Black Canary, E. Nelson Bridwell, Kurt Schaffenberger, Julius Schwartz, DC Comics
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Great show, Chris and Cindy!
I remember this story very well from my childhood. Mr. And Mrs. Superman were the main reason I was buying Superman Family. Given what little percentage the stories took up in a Dollar comic, that might not have been the wisest financial choice. I remember these stories much better than the Supergirl, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane or Nightwing & Flamebird features.
I expect I’d seen Johnny Thunder in a few JLA/JSA team-ups, but this had to have been my first major introduction to the character. (Aside from the story in the JSA digest where he wrote a letter asking Superman to take his place at a JSA meeting because he had a cold.) So, for me, this is the defining story for Johnny. And helped solidify my sense that he was an idiot.
I also remember his diminishing JSA retcon (in the original sense — a “green retcon” I believe, as I once wrote an online post comparing types of retcons to colours of kryptonite). I certainly recognized ENB was using it to give an in-story explanation for the characters publishing history, but I also appreciated that.
These are fun tales, and you are the perfect hosts to cover them.
I should have mentioned Superman subbed for Johnny in Supes’ one full-fledge JSA adventure in All-Star #36. I guess that’s their real connection!
Is a red kryptonite retcon really random and “anything goes?”. I’m fascinated by the color spectrum of retcons!
From (thanks, Google Groups) Jan. 4, 1996:
A retcon is a noun (to retcon, a verb) which is short for retroactive
continuity. Like Pre-Crisis Kryptonite, it comes in several exciting
flavour and colours.
1. Green Retcon. This was the original retcon. It’s when some previous
unknown element is inserted into a character’s past. “Jen, why it’s been
ages! I haven’t seen you since we broke up in high school!” This old
girlfriend would never have been mentioned before. But she’d probably
become a major plot element for future stories. It doesn’t invalidate
previous issues and sets up new stories. [I really should have said Elektra here instead of picking a name at random.]
2. Jewel Retcon. These retcons come from fragments of the fabled Jewel
Mouuntains of Krypton. These are continuity patches. For example, when
Captain America was found by the Avengers, the comic said he’d been
frozen in an iceberg since 1945. But there were Captain America stories
in 1946 and the 1950’s. So, Roy Thomas and Steve Engleheart wrote some
stories explaining who those Captain Americas were. Once again, this kind
of retcon doesn’t damage continuity. Of course, these stories can be
somewhat clunky.
3. Red Retcon. These retcons passed through meteor clouds and have
unpredictable effects on a character’s past. Red retcons establish that
what we thought and what the characters thought isn’t true. For example,
it was long-held that the Vision was constructed from the original Human
Torch android. But in West Coast Avengers, John Byrne had the heroes
discover that this wasn’t true at all. The Spidey clone stuff could be
considered a red retcon, but I think it’s more retcon-type 5. [Of course, I probably should have used Alan Moore’s Swamp thing here. And the Vision thing got re-retconned.]
4. Gold Retcon. This is the most deadly form of retcon. It takes away a
character’s past. For example, editor Denny O’Neil declared that Batman
was never in the JLA. So, just ignore those pesky issues with Batman in
them. They never happened. Gold retcon was created by the Crisis on
Infinite Earths and Zero Hour.
5. Blue “Bizarro” Retcon. This type could be more deadly than gold.
That is, if anyone could figure out what the heck was going on. Iron Boy.
Spidey Clone. Nuff Said. [As I said in a later repost, I should have gone with Hawkman here. Does any even remember when Tony Stark was replaced with his teenaged self?]
Originally written during my journalism school days at Ryerson Polytechnic University on a school computer. [The handle JOUD ‘94 would be “Journalism for degree graduates – ie: we already had BAs in another subject – starting year of 1994.]
I also guess that Johnny’s explanation for his JSA absences was actually what I had termed a Jewel Retcon.
Fascinating take. I like it! Maybe the Alan Moore Swamp Thing retcon could be considered a White Retcon…only affecting plant life?
I’m mostly struck by the fact that Johnny asked for help from the superhero with an extremely well-documented weakness to magic….
Yeah, Superman’s “weakness” to magic is probably more well-known than his inability to see through lead, despite Lois blabbing it to everyone who reads the Daily Planet….or Daily Star!
Despite having worked with both Doctor fate and the Specter himself, either of whom ought to able to take “the Shaman” out without batting an eye. I could see being merciful and not calling in the Specter (who tends to overdo things) but that doesn’t really explain why he didn’t yell for Fate.
Yeah, given the day, Spectre may have laid waste to Badnehsia just for allowing that guy to control the throne. Fate’s the better call. But was he still half-helmet fate?
It occurred me to during this episode how it was a real missed opportunity that we didn’t get a E-2 Superman/Batman team-up in their final, greying temples/half retired form. They’re both married men! Might have been quite interesting fodder for a story or two. Surely Red Tornado or Green Arrow could have given up their slot in one issue of World’s Finest (which. of course, starred them both until the Silver Age changeover) to make room for this.
I looked at the scans you posted and thought, why does this look a little off? I normally love Schaffenberger’s work. Then I saw the inker: Frank Chiaramonte. SIGH.
Glad to have the show back! Cei-U next April!
Batman got a wife and lost her in one story, so that’s probably why we never got a World’s Finest couples night series. Which is a real shame!
Yeah, Chiaramonte isn’t quite suited to Schaff like many inkers. And we’ll be back before you know it! Next episode is in the can!
Great discussion. This is such a fun series to cover. I remember reading these back in the day. I like the idea that this is loosely part of the same continuity as the George Reeves series. Looking forward to your next one!
That loose connection to the George Reeves series is all in my own head canon, but hey, why not? I have said it many times, but as a kid, I rationalized the daily reruns of the Reeves series with the ongoing Christohper Reeve films by saying George was Earth-Two Supes, and Chris was Earth-One. Whenever I read them teamed up (like in Crisis) I hear those voices.
I’m convinced the best version of Johnny Thunder and the Thunderbolt is actually Lilo and Stitch.
Great episode!
Ha! You may be right. Certainly my family’s favorite.
Hi Chris and Cindy! I’m so glad you’re continuing this series. The Mr. & Mrs. Superman feature was always my favorite part of Superman Family, followed closely by Nightwing & Flamebird. I just recently finished rebuilding an entire set of Superman Family and am looking forward to diving back into it, although if I read them in order it’ll be a while before I get to the Mr. & Mrs. Superman issues. I think one of you mentioned how good E. Nelson Bridwell was at writing retcons that worked so well — Johnny’s history in this story, the Kents attending the Wayne wedding in your previous episode, even the Kid Eternity/Captain Marvel Junior connection. He really, I think, did retcons better than anyone else at DC. (I am a big Roy Thomas fan … but I think we can all agree some of his retcons were needlessly convoluted and/or icky (that Black Canary origin you also mentioned!).
Looking forward to finding out which Mr. & Mrs. Superman tale you cover next!
I think ENB was particularly good at it too. He did a lot of that in the Super Friends title (which Rob and guests covered on For All Mankind), and I always appreciated the DC history nuggets he sprinkled in.
well thank god we know what happen to johny’s belt! Note I dont rembember a belt!
YOu guys might not like “Everybody with the same name is related but 13 year old me loved tried to write Robot man and Robin having family picnic but then I found out the original Robotman was a comedy (gasp!) “I cant put Robin in a comedy! Frank miller might read it!
Maybe the belt should have been the setup for Jakeem to get control of the Thunderbolt?
Dick had so many relatives (Robotman’s pal, Aunt Harriet Cooper) why did Bruce take him in?
BETTer question what did aunt harriet do in the circus?
Waid’s World’s Finest had Mxyptlk and Johnny Thunder’s Thunderbolt from the same dimension. George Perez E2 Superman definitely did look like George Reeves.
I think it may have been previously established in Morrison’s JLA run as well? My continuity knowledge gets foggy in the late 90s.
I do tend to think of E2 Superman as George Reeves, but Perez gave him those Kirk Alyn sweatshirt cuffs on his sleeves too.
Excellent! The second annual installment of the Mr. & Mrs. Superman show! A nice mid-year fix before the next House of Franklinstein! (I kid, I kid…)
Enjoyed the show, though, and enjoyed the story so kindly provided on the gallery page. Yes, it’s a bit silly, but also quite fun. And Lois looked quite fetching in the Jeannie get-up. I’m betting that when they got home and she wanted to change, Supes said, “Oh, no hurry there, Lois…”
Another jab at the year-long gap between episodes? Just consider last year’s episode the pilot, and now you’ll get a series of occasional TV movies, or something like that.
I can imagine Clark did enjoy Lois’ get-up, but hopefully he didn’t go for the whole “Call me master” routine. I don’t think Lois in any universe would put up with that!
I actually discovered this network due to your Starman work. This is excuse to ask for a raise!. My main takeaway from this episode, other than loving Cindy’s accent, is the theme song. For a few minutes I could have sworn it was an old Roy Rogers song. From me, that’s the highest praise possible.
Another vote for more Starman! Maybe one day we’ll figure out a way to crack the code and make that easier to do. Or I’ll just take the time to re-read the series again and get myself motivated! Cindy has an accent? 😉
All credit for the theme song goes to Terry O’Malley (known around here as Ward Hill Terry) who created that wonderful song on the mere mention we were doing this show. Terry is a master of his craft! And I don’t know about him, but if someone compared me to Roy Rogers, I’d take that compliment!
Thanks, Brett!
I’ve listened to some of your shows but I tend
Not to comment . I believe peachy pet did return
At least in name in later JSA run as Johnny mentioned her running a successful ice cream shop so she never became a hero . But Johnny did later adopted an another daughter later in live sadly we never got a comic of Johnny’s two daughters interacting.
With all facsimile’s we need some more of all flash comics can you say the names of the issues where peachy pet first appeared agin and the issue where black carry shows maybe the Fire and Water network can will it to happen.
Thanks for the clarification on Peachy Pet. According to Mike’s Amazing World of Comics, it looks like Peachy Pet appeared in Flash Comics #21-88, All-Star Comics #15, and The Big All-American Comic Book #1 (it was a one-shot). Black Canary appeared in the Golden Age in Flash Comics #86-104 (except for #89), and All-Star #38-57.
Peachy Pet appeared in the Parobeck-drawn Justice Society series and was running a chain of frozen yogurt shops. She then showed up in JSA 78-80, where she had been turned into a djinn, and married Shocko, the Thunderbolt’s son.
I loved Mr. & Mrs Superman, and it was the only reason I bought Superman Family. In addition the Thin Man and the Adventures of Superman, it also reminded me of I Love Lucy.
Thanks Joe. I definitely read those comics (and Shag recently covered the Strazewski/Parobeck series), but my brain went foggy about Peachy Pet. I totally spaced on the djinn story.
There’s defintely an early sitcom vibe to the Mr. & Mrs. Superman feature, with us and various listeners pointing out the I Love Lucy connection, as well as The Dick Van Dyke Show.
I ment the flash Jay Garrick comics besides issue one and some of the golden atom as well .
So many Batman facsimile’s
Typo ment golden age atom
Oh my goodness, you two have unlocked a core comic book memory for me. After hearing you describe it and looking at the images on the site, I was instantly brought back to my early childhood. This must have been one of the few superhero books I had in the pile of Richie Rich and Archie comics my mother bought for me at a yard sale when I was either 4 or 5 years old. I’m pretty sure my copy had the cover, at least for a while, but I definitely remember the interior. The Thunderbolt gave me the creeps thanks to his pointy ears and “demonic” lightning bolts coming from his head. …Although I did like the Lois Lane veiled outfit for reasons I couldn’t quite understand at the time.
I’m so happy to finally understand the story; I may have been too young to read this at the time. I will definitely be on the lookout for this issue the next time I visit a comic shop with an extensive back issue room. I look forward to listening to future episodes and maybe rediscovering other lost treasures from my childhood.
Glad to help unlock those memories Jason! I have had a few experiences like that browsing on the web and taking in videos and podcasts. It’s a strange feeling when those memories come flooding back!
So glad to hear this show again! I like Johnny Thunder and just try to forget that Justice League #219-220 ever happened. This story is fun, although Bridwell went a long way in those last two panels for that joke.
And yes, Chris, I did listen to this with my lovely wife, which is why I probably shouldn’t mention that Lois’ harem outfit reminds me of the Teri Hatcher Lois dressing as a belly dancer on a first season episode of Lois and Clark. She would surely give me a Cindy-like punch in the shoulder.
It’s easy to say #219-220 never happened, because there’s no way any of that survived the Crisis!
Despite Cindy and I already dating during Lois & Clark’s heyday, I too was quite smitten by Terri Hatcher as Lois. Cindy gives me a pass on her….mostly.
“Say, you” guys, sorry I am late to the party. Just caught up and highly enjoyed this episode! “Charming” is just the perfect word for all the stories of Mr & Mrs Superman, including this one. I bought and read Superman Family as it came out, despite some of it being a tough read at times. But always loved this feature and so glad you are back to it. I can’t say I was ever a fan of Johnny Thunder though. Some of his last appearances were in the Black Canary Archives (which is a great book) and he was kind of a loser even then.
Anyway great to hear the two of you together!
I was never really a fan of Johnny either, but I thought the Thunderbolt was cool, and more interesting. I recently read those early Johnny/Black Canary stories for another project, and boy howdy, you’re right. He is outclassed in his own strip!
Hi Chris & Cindy – I showed up in the comments to mention the 1992 JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA series by Strazewski/Parobeck, and the connection with Peachy Pet and the frozen yogurt franchise, but everyone already beat me to it. I’ll just add that Johnny Thunder invested in the Fro-Yo stores before going to Ragnarok, so when the JSA returned, his investment had made him RICH!
Finally, this episode was WONDERFUL! Such a joyful listen and looking forward to more!
Thanks Shag! I somehow spaced on Peachy Pet’s later appearances, and Johnny’s FroYo fortune, despite listening to your coverage of the Strazeski/Parobeck series, and re-reading a good chunk of it along with your releases. Getting old sucks!