Once Upon A Geek – Building the Outback Team: Uncanny X-Men #213-219 plus Annuals (1986-87)

14 responses to “Once Upon A Geek – Building the Outback Team: Uncanny X-Men #213-219 plus Annuals (1986-87)”

1. Oddly, I jumped off X-Men when they moved to the Outback, partly because I needed to save a few bucks and I could read my college roommate’s copies. But I adored the lead up in these issues! This was similar to the Avengers “The Olde Order Changeth” situation, but messy and awkward making it delightful for a team that’s not as, I’ll say, professional as the Avengers. That’s not how the X-Men roll. They’re a team by necessity, united against a world that hates and fears them. By that standard, change *should* be hard, and it was so cool to see. No surprise that Claremont did it again to transition after the Outback era.

   Sadly, I cannot think of Longshot ever getting a bit story or moment while on the X-Men. Long afterwards, Peter David did some interesting things with volume 2 of X-Factor. But at this time, the coolest moment I can think of is him sparring with Ororo in FF/X-Men, showing off his jumping skills. So yeah, that’s not great.

   And the Juggernaut issues are so great! I re-read #218 a ridiculous number of times. I must say, Psylocke really should have driven more trucks into supervillains after this issue!

   Now for the big question, which you totally asked for: Is Psylocke’s costume inspired by Looker’s costume? There are some elements that could support that. Looker’s has a LOT of pink, covering most of her right side, and includes a big jaunty bow on her left hip, with a white half-cape trimmed in powder blue, plus matching boot and glove. There’s that black left sleeve and leotard to break up the color in an asymmetrical style, and she shows off a bare right arm and left leg. This gives her a combination of sleek and flowing elements that are distinctly feminine, which could have influenced Alan’s design for Psylocke’s costume. The puffy sleeves especially evoke Looker’s half-cape.

   But it is worth noting that Alan Davis didn’t design Looker’s costume. Mike W Barr did himself. Davis reminded me of that just a couple of years ago at HeroesCon. That slightly changes the situation from “reusing one of his own designs” to “inspired by his work on other characters.” So with that in mind, both Black Lightning and Katana in the Outsiders have puffy sleeves, and so did Betsy’s Captain Britain costume from the end of that Captain Britain series. (I have the Alan Davis Captain Britain trade as well, but not the Moore-Davis trade. Side note: the Moore-Davis stories were also reprinted in X-Men Archives in 1995, and somehow I only found the last issue #7 on the stands, so that’s another option if you can find them.)

   Lastly, even more than the costume, Davis honestly drew Looker and Psylocke similarly, especially their hair. They have a large mane of hair that circles their heads and long in the back, This is very different from how Jim Aparo drew Looker, which was published before Davis first drew her. But with Betsy’s purple and Lia’s red hair being strong colors, and styled in similar fashions, there’s no doubt to me Davis was going for similar appearances. I fully expect that makes the costumes seem more similar, but I honestly don’t see many parallels besides the pink. That’s overshadowed to me by the fact that, yes, he drew the women very similarly. Not a criticism, just my opinion. I’d say the same is true for his depictions of Brian Braddock and Brion Markov, but hey, their first names are practically the same already!

   Thanks for coming to my Tim Talk. No refunds.

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   1. Thanks for answering the Looker/Psylocke costume conundrum, Tim! These things always have more nuance than we realize.

      Totally agree, 218 is great and I too read it a ton back in the day. And the cover is one of my favorites ever! You’re right, it would’ve fun if Betsy had a recurring motif of running down bad guys with trucks!

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   2. One last thing: why didn’t the Avengers step in to help out during the Mutant Massacre? They are allies of the X-Men, after all. Well, a little thing called Avengers: Under Siege started the SAME MONTH as the Massacre! So it’s fair to say, they were a little distracted. I really didn’t bring this up to plug my podcast, but the overlap between this episode and my show is too crazy to ignore!

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      1. Great point about the Avengers being tied up with the Under Siege story! I also started collecting Avengers with that storyline. That period during the 1980s was crazy! Marvel was not afraid to upend status quos, at least temporarily. X-Men, Spider-Man, Thor, Avengers, Iron Man, Hulk, Cap…they all had some dramatic changes during that time. And some really, really good stories came out of it!

         I think what I had in mind was later, not during the actual massacre, but the aftermath where the Marauders are still out there and the X-Men have all the wounded to take of.

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2. I’ve read the x-babies stuff .
   I’ve enjoyed that a lot I’ve got collection of the x-babies stuff so I’m team x-babies all way .
   Now here’s my secret question:
   Make a team of two x-babies and two avengers babies then send them to alternate dimension
   Who would choose and where would them?

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   1. Great question! I’d probably send babies Longshot and Rogue from the X-men and babies Hercules and Monica Rambeau from the Avengers. Good power mix, personality mix, and experience with inter dimensional travel!

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3. I started this podcast while at Heroes Con and concluded it when I arrived back home. Chris Claremont, Art Adams, and Ann Nocenti were among the guests so listening to this was fitting. The introduction of Longshot, Psylocke, and Dazzler to the team took place during the time when I was totally engrossed with Marvel’s mutants and buying every comic book that started with “X-“. This run really tests my hypothesis that the X-Men need Kurt and Kitty. These stories kept me hooked even though they were over in Excalibur.

   I was a big Doug Ramsey fan, but yeah, the relationship angle with Betsy was a little odd. When I was 15, I identified with Doug’s lack of confidence and sense of inferiority due to his non-flashy power. He was like me—except a 30 year old purple-haired British model was interested in him. And I always thought her hair WAS natural. Oh well, you learn something new in every podcast.

   The additions of Dazzler and Psylocke were fine with me and I prefer this version of Betsy before the body-switch when they dialed up the sexiness past 11. Longshot, though, always puzzled me. I only picked up the final issue of his miniseries so he was completely brand new to me when he made his X-Men debut. He wasn’t really a mutant and just never seemed to fit. And thank you for explaining that Alfie, Butch, and Darla were Ann Nocenti’s characters from Longshot and Daredevil. I have never read those comics so I have spent years wondering why the Little Rascals showed up in an X-Men/New Mutants annual. And speaking of costumes, when Mojo ages up some of the New Mutants and the Brat Pack, Darla’s costume also looks very much like Looker’s outfit. Plus, she goes by the name of Jubilee.

   Finally, you weren’t kidding when you alluded to dangling plotlines that took forever to be resolved during this era. When the Mutant Massacre took place just before these issues, I did not have a driver’s license. When it was revealed (in Uncanny X-Men #350) that it was Gambit who helped lead the Marauders during the Massacre, I had a Bachelor’s degree and was just a few months from a graduate degree.

   Great show, Shag and Jason! This was 3 hours of quality content.

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   1. Glad you enjoyed it, Super Captain! Good call on the resemblance of Darla’s superhero outfit to Looker! They even both wear the blue face paint!

      I too identified with Doug back in the day…his insecurity and wondering if he belonged. I love how Claremont has him save the day not only in NM annual 2, but also annual 1 and issue 50! Showed how everyone can contribute…and a truly creative writer can give every character a chance to shine.

      I like some of the costumes Alan Davis designed for the aged-up New Mutants, especially Cannonball, Mirage, and Magik!

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4. Great discussion!

   I am by no means a Dazzler expert. But she has a history with the New Mutants. Look at New Mutants #29-31. Dazzler has a great story arch showing her with Gladiators. Here is seen developing her powers and fighting an addition to fame and adoration.

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5. Day five, i’ll be here with a comment soon…

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6. Really enjoyed this episode. The Outback era is a perfect example of how Chris Claremont could reinvent the X-Men without losing what made them special, which was some of the best character development that I have ever seen or read, it made me feel like I knew these characters. Storm was my favorite leader of the X-men and I don’t think it’s close, loved the Mohawk too.

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7. Thanks Shag and Jason for a quality listen.

   This was the period when I started falling out of love with the X-Men after having read thsine issue 99 – Storm went punk, put on an unconvincing new personality and began stabbing people. Kill-crazy Wolverine was suddenly a sensitive fan of Japanese flower arranging. Mass murderer Magneto became headmaster. Jason was right that the book was adapting to the times, but I didn’t like it. I packed in finally when they went through the Siege Perilous and met a very convenient teleporter named Gateway, which in the UK was the name of a supermarket. Was the Outback period really that popular, it only lasted a year and a half or something? I honestly couldn’t see that the Marauders were such a big threat that the X-Men would have to go to all the trouble of pretending to be dead.

   The one big positive was the introduction of Jubilee.

   That being said, there was some other good stuff in there, and I loved your enthusiasm. It was hilarious that a two-issue chat became ‘we need to talk about the annuals that preceded them, and a couple of issues, and the two years after, and three mini-series…’ I loved hearing all the opinions and insights. I’d never noticed the similarity between Looker and original flavour Psylocke, but it’s undeniable. And yes, Alan Davis did have a habit of giving heroines leonine hair, combed back so they looked like a middle-aged Princess Margaret.

   As for Psylocke herself, it was really exciting seeing a Marvel UK character promoted to the colour US books – we had no idea just how much of the British stuff would eventually be brought in via Excalibur. I also liked the random butterfly psychic motif (a reference to the phrase ‘butterfly mind’?) but hated the name ‘Psylocke’… was she locking up psyches? Also, it was too much like ‘Cyclops’. And ‘Lockheed’. Mind, it was better than the horrible ‘Betsy’ – not a name you’d find a young Englishwoman using. Given her poshness, she’d be a Beth.

   I didn’t know people were down on Jr Jr’s X-Men art, I thought that with Dan Green inking his work looked the best it ever has, except when it’s happily swamped by the inks of Bob Layton

   I suppose Betsy was tall because she was a model originally. And she was also a secret agent, which explains her handiness in a fight.

   Lads, if you were in the UK you would hear people being called ‘cow’ quite a lot – try a random episode of EastEnders, it’s ’silly cow’ this and ‘daft cow’ that. It’s pretty mild language. There’s even a 1967 film called poor cow starring General Zod himself, Terence Stamp.

   On a similar note, I’ve never heard the expression ‘Shanks’ mare’ but ‘shanks’ pony was something my grandparents and mother used to describe going somewhere in foot. Claremont may have misremembered from his early years in Britain.

   I’m also a big fan of Magma, I love lost civilisations. Given her fun background and very visual power it’s very odd writers don’t use her more.

   I’d never seen those graduation uniforms, they’re impressive in that every one is uniquely hideous. It’s odd that Arthur Adams manages pretty decent art on the rest of the Annual but the reveal panel has ridiculous supposed anatomy… look at those pipe cleaner legs!

   Definitely try the original super-soapy Dazzler series, it was brilliant seeing Alison use her powers in creative ways – it was far more than rollerskating while playing a ghetto blaster. Rogue was actually a pretty big thing for several issues, she loomed large over Alison’s life as something of a bogeyman. And while the art by Frank Springer wasn’t flashy, an irredeemable person would certainly find things to love. Later issues saw a young Paul Chadwick take over.

   Mind, that’s when she donned the dull blue costume and started becoming a regular superheroine. I’m not a big fan of her as a team member, but if that’s the only way we get to see her, great.

   I read the original Longshot mini-series but it didn’t grab me. Looking at it now it looks good value in terms of sheer content per page. That haircut, though! On that annual cover it looks like he’s tossing screwdrivers.

   As regards Alison recognising Juggernaut after seeing him for three seconds in a passing vehicle, in real life there are people called ‘super recognisers’ who work with the police and courts to identify crooks, perhaps that’s Alison second superpower!

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8. One other question just occurred to me. When did Betsy begin referring to her “psychic knife” as “the focused totality of her powers”? That’s another of those classic Claremont-isms.

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9. Superb episode, gentlemen. Having previously discussed such matters with him, Shag will be aware that X-Men in general is my one true love, but this period in particular. Just the mere mention of it fills me with myriad confusing and exciting feelings, such that I become rather unsteady. Nurse! All of the comics discussed (well, apart from #219) are personal favourites. Alan Davis, Silvestri, BWS, Art Adams, Juggernaut, Longshot, Mutant Massacre, the Mojoverse… this era is just solid gold.

   Just a couple of supplementary notes to add:

   – I love pre-ninja Betsy, and #213 is an incredible showcase for her. That issue was reprinted in a UK hardback annual called The Marvel Super-Heroes Omnibus, alongside issues of Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man and Spider-Man. What was notable was that this collection very clunkily and obviously censored Betsy’s feisty but mild British swearing. For example, ‘Arrogant sod! I’d like to shove those words down his bloody throat’ became ‘Arrogant swine’ and ‘ugly throat’. Which always amused me in its bold-type prudishness.

   – How did Dazzler recognise Juggernaut? The dude is nine feet tall and almost as wide. He’s pretty distinctive. Plus he absolutely reeks of Cyttorak.

   – As far as I know, the comic shop depicted in #218 was an homage to a real place, but the name was changed. It wasn’t called Dark Carnival, but the Science Fiction Bookshop, which Claremont visited.

   – Also on the subject of #218, maybe it’s the nostalgia talking, but I do believe this to be the single best action-oriented issue of any comic ever. Just brilliantly paced, excellent character moments woven in, exemplary teamwork, incredible artwork. I absolutely *adore* this issue.

   – A slight correction: It was Larry Trask, not Stephen Lang, who gave Havok his costume.

   – Without getting too far into it, I love the way Claremont folded the Marvel UK characters into the main Marvel Universe. The Captain Britain series is some deeply weird, eccentric stuff, so what better place for it than the X-sphere, which already had its own weirdnesses, but not quite to the same extent. Reading the X-books off the shelves at the time, I was confused by the presence of Betsy, Brian, etc., but I loved their inclusion. And the fact that it made me feel like I’d missed several issues just added to the appeal. It’s notable how much my affection for a particular comic is associated with feeling a bit bewildered – a pattern that developed long before I was a Grant Morrison fan. I have a lot more to say about Captain Britain and how his aristocratic arrogance and bumbling ineptitude make him a perfect national symbol, but that’s a thesis for another day.

   Finally, I must admit, I’ve lost my comics mojo of late. My joy for the medium has fizzled. The one thing that I keep promising myself I’ll do is revisit my first and most abiding love, and read X-Men from Giant-Size to adjectiveless. Maybe related titles, too. This podcast and the excellent discussion therein further stoked that fire in my belly, and I may just have to embark upon this ambitious revitalisation project (which could also, less charitably, be described as an indulgent exercise in pure escapist nostalgia). So thank you!

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