Cindy and Chris team-up with Fire & Water pal Xum Yukinori to cover one of the series’ most famous stories! The League is transported to a parallel world where they meet Green Lantern’s childhood heroes, the Justice Guild of America! But a sinister secret lurks under the Golden Age facade of peace and tranquility!
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Clips from Justice League, “Legends”, music and theme by Lolita Ritmanis
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35 responses to “JLUCast 9: “Legends””
Thank you again for allowing me to join your fun, Cindy and Chris…
On the relisten, I realize that I was incorrect in my explanation of the names of the robots in the Evangelion anime. The two series of robots were called “Evas” and “Angels”, at least in the first series, and it was the “Lions” that I had not seen. At the time of recording, I was no doubt thinking of Voltron, whose Netflix series I have been watching with my son recently; the robots on that show were lions.
Also, DC did not do a single issue of Abbott & Costello… I was mistakenly thinking of DC’s “Laurel and Hardy”, which was cancelled in 1972 after one issue.
I also checked my longboxes, and there was no Junior JSA code used in All-Star Comics v1, issue 57. In fact, issue 52 was the last issue to feature a Junior JSA code.
And my thanks for dropping in that sweet sweet Catman theme…
Thanks for the info Xum, and my pleasure with the sweet Catman music!
Still listening to the episode, but thus far everybody is doing wonderfully covering what is possibly my favorite of the season 1 episodes.
Regarding “Picayune,” there is a publication in New Orleans called the Times-Picayune. This may be a source for the newspaper featured in the episode. As for the name itself, according to Wikipedia, “Established as The Picayune in 1837 by Francis Lumsden and George Wilkins Kendall, the paper’s initial price was one picayune, a Spanish coin equivalent to 6¼¢ (half a bit, or one-sixteenth of a dollar).”
So the newspaper in the episode is a reference to the newspaper being a lower cost. If we take it further, we can probably No Prize it as a forced reference to comics being cheaper in the era which is being depicted in this episode…well, maybe. Maybe I’m just taking it a little far.
OK, so it’s time for me to dive into the second half of this epic podcast. See you on the other side (or other universe).
OK, so I’ve finished the episode. Loved all of this coverage. Such a wonderful episode. I remember when I first watched the episode that I didn’t quite get that the world was a nuclear apocalypse and all Twilight Zone-y at the end. But I was young and stupid (now I’m older and equally stupid).
Cindy’s reactions to the people involved with Justice League vs Fatal Five were hilarious. It’s like Chris reading those names was pushing all the right nerdy buttons.
Xum’s comment about Caucasian vs cocky Asian was downright gut-bustingly hilarious.
Chris and Cindy have accents? Nah. They have a refined grace and elocution that is simply masked by their sense of comfort and familiarity with their audience.
I really have nothing to add that wasn’t already discussed in the show, so I will stop here before this becomes even more of a rambling response. Looking forward to the next episode.
Thank you, Clinton. I believe the Times-Picayune was what the writer/producers had in mind, as the “real life” newspapers found in part two was The Seaboard Times…
Ah, the PIcayune explained! Thanks Clinton! Xum’s “cocky Asian” line legitimately cracked me up, which is not hard to tell. As you can hear, we had a lot of fun recording this one.
Regarding Amazons and accents, George Pérez had first established that the comic book Wonder Woman had an accent in Wonder Woman volume 2 issue 20…
(Which was why I had envisioned Marina Sirtis voicing the post-Crisis Wonder Woman in my head after I had started watching Star Trek, the Next Generation…)
Ooh…good call on Sirtis. I could even see her playing the character in live-action, evoking more of the Perez curly-haired look. Also, leave it to Perez to realize Diana should have a distinctive accent.
I definitely thought this was the JL series taking things up a notch, between the complexity of the story, the number of characters, and the overall nightmarish tone at the end. Sure, it’s a show still aimed mostly at kids, but it’s trying to tip-toe them into heavier themes.
Xum seemed to having a blast with you guys, maybe he felt freer not being burdened by having to play half a dozen characters (all with diff voices) like he does on his show.
Said it before, will say it again—love Angry Cindy!
Agreed on the series upping its a game with this one. This is the showrunners finding their feet, and feels more like one of the later shows, than many of this season’s previous efforts.
We talked to Xum for three solid hours, and I can attest that he never slipped into Terra-Man. Not even once!
I love Angry Cindy too…but I love Non-Angry Cindy just a BIT more.
Off topic but thought I’d mention it anyway : the revamped DC Superhero Girls began airing this weekend. Wonder Woman does have an accent here. Loved to hear your thoughts on this series sometime.
We need to check those out for sure. Everyone here liked the “Super Best Friends Forever” shorts on DC Nation several years back, and now DC Superhero Girls is in the same style with the same creator. I thought the other series was fine as well, but I enjoyed the Batgirl short in this style from Teen Titans Go to the Movies.
Great show. Although it’s a shame that Seaboard City’s other villains — Earth-Fella, the Grey Golem and Weirdo — couldn’t accompany Xum for this one.
In addition to the Twilight Zone episode and the earliest JLA/JSA team-ups, I thought that the Crisis on Earth-Prime story arc between the JLA, JSA and All-Star Squadron might have been an influence. The Crime Syndicate of America travelled to Earth-Prime in 1962 and stole a few Cuban/Russian missiles for their evil plan. This act altered the timeline of Earth-Prime leading to the Cuban Missile Crisis ending in nuclear war. Our heroes visited a post-apocalyptic version of Earth-Prime.
I think you may be right Allen. That’s why I mentioned it in the “Watchtower Files” section. I meant to come back to it in the review itself, but it was one of the notes that must have gotten glossed over.
Awesome podcast, I love listening as someone who grew up with the show I love learning about behind the scenes stuff and the extra details
Here’s a link to the original promo with different designs for the justice guild that more closely resemble the JSA
Thanks Zach! I remember seeing that video awhile back. I assume it’s a fan edit, but it’s a very well done one, either way!
Given how the story ends, I’m glad they didn’t use the “real” JSA…but it still would have been nice to see them!
I want to thank you for pointing out the Neon Genesis Evangelion Easter egg in this episode of Justice League. I was a big fan of that anime series back in the day, so it was fun to learn that someone on the JL creative team must have been a fan too.
Thanks for another great episode.
At the very least, James Tucker was well aware of it! Thanks for listening Brian!
And perhaps Mr. Linton can confirm whether later series after the first one had showcased the “lion” part of the name…
My short answer is that I’m not aware any “lions” in the series.
My long geeky answer is that I’m most familiar with the TV series that came out back in the mid-90s. I just rewatched the series last year, and can say that it only features the Evas and the Angels.
Now, there have been several Evangelion movies, as well as a manga series, that I haven’t seen/read. The first two movies came out shortly after the TV series aired. Then, in mid-00s, they started releasing a new series of movies that reboot the franchise with new characters and a different story. It’s possible that “lions” could play a role in the newer movies or the manga.
As an aside, I have to recommend the original TV series finale as one of the most abstract and ambiguous endings to a story that I’ve ever seen. It gives the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey a run for its money. It was fan outcry over the original ending that spawned the first two Evangelion movies. Basically, they were made to give the story a more comprehensible ending.
My apologies for going overboard with my response. I don’t get to share my love for 80s/90s anime very often.
Thank you, Mr. Linton. I had only seen the first series, and it was in Malaysia, so there were a few scenes that were censored by the Information industry (such as the death of Kaworu… the broadcast essentially held a still frame of the Eva holding Kaworu in its hand for several seconds and then cut to Shinji’s anguish … so it looked like a broadcasting glitch at first)…
Impressive pod cast. Most impressive. I always liked this episode. Had no idea That was the guy to voice Tom Turbine. Wow that was a shock. Every one did a great job in this. Oh the times Picayune is a news paper in New Orleans. I think it’s like a circular that has adds in it and what not. Haven’t read a paper in years. Since now news can be found on the I-phone. etc. But, yeah that was a real paper. The side kick as the main villain was fun. It worked. Though how young was he when they died? All those powers and he never thinks,” hey I can be the hero now!” Why doesn’t he become Cat Man… or Green Guardsman.
Or dated Black Siren. What he had the powers. And it’s Jen Hale. She was awesome in Mass Effect. Jedi Academy. And the Star Wars MMO. For The old Republic as the Trooper. Was cool to hear her in this. Yeaaaah Supes made Bats feel useful. LOL. Yeah Cat Man does do you the Bat Man bit well. Defiantly the 50s Bats. Yeah was sad the world was racist as it was back then. Glad it’s not that way. Any more. Gonna move right along. Was cool to see the JLA kind of meet the JSA.
Also I think Ray’s inter mind. Was what made the Garden’s turn. What good was in him had made him not take down the JLU. And have the Guardians save John. Glad they gave John the comic reading kid. Making him more than just the Military guy. Or Hawk Woman’s boy friend. It gave him a relatable personality to the watchers. That and him having the hanging with the Flash. As he’s having to take Flash being over the top personality. Was kind of funny. While they had better episodes for him. This was defiantly a building block for John.
This show and mosaic the comic. To me at lest helped make him a more likeable character. Till then to me at lest it was more of the Hal and Guy show. This and that helped build him to a more interesting character.
I agree that this series did a LOT for John Stewart. Only this could erase the whole “killing a planet” bit from Cosmic Odyssey. And they even sorta addressed that in the second set of episodes!
In the minds of a whole generation of fans he IS Green Lantern. WB should have really thought of that and at the very least included him in the GL movie, me thinks.
A great episode on a pair of great episodes. These were my favorite at this point, too.
The Times-Picayune discussion has me wondering about Seaboard City. (Seaboard is New Orleans? But nobody has an accent!) Seaboard was the publisher of Martin Goodman’s second run of Atlas Comics. According to interesting articles on-line, he wanted to imitate and compete with Marvel after he left. So… Seaboard => not-Marvel, JGA=>not-National or All-American, either. Or I may be over-thinking it.
While over-thinking; it’s an interesting coincidence that the Avengers’ first trip to Earth Uh… to the world of the not-JLA Squadron Supreme also featured visions of a dying planet, and a big-brained mutant kid, (on the covers of Avengers 85 & 86,) although they use these elements differently.
Hmm, the Seaboard connection hadn’t crossed my mind, but you may be onto something. I bet many of these guys sampled the Seaboard-Atlas line during its brief run. As an offbrand comic company, it may have been a slight wink from them.
I’m so confused on the Squadron Sinster/Supreme, I didn’t know about that angle of their backstory. And weren’t those issues written by…Roy Thomas?!?
I always thought of Tom Turbine as part Atom, and maybe part TNT/Dan the Dyna-Mite. Clashing his fists together just reminds me of their powers. But oh, those squinty eyes are the best!
Ok. Fair warning, this next bit is gonna be long. My favorite line in “Legends” is near the end of part 2, and thinking about it sent me way down the rabbit hole. So strap in, or run for the hills and don’t look back.
Why *did* they create the “Justice Guild” for this episode instead of using the Justice Society? Maybe the commentaries talk about it, but whatever the reason, I think it was a brilliant choice because it allows the JSA to still be in continuity as seen in future JL/JLU stories. Using the parallel world angle is fun, but honestly, it makes including the JSA awkward, whereas sharing a universe removes that obstacle. Plus, there’s the fact that for Legends, the JGA aren’t “real” and disappear at the end. If it had been the JSA, this would have been their only story in JL/JLU, so thank goodness they didn’t do that.
But why aren’t the JGA “real”? Partly because they were created by Ray, but also because they’re from John’s childhood comic books. That’s actually a metaphor for *us* and JL. We can only read and watch their stories, but never interact with the League. No matter how much we love them, the League can never physically be part of our world.
So John is us, when he says my favorite line: “Why should I feel like this? They weren’t even real.” Because they are real to us. Our heroes mean something, and helped shape us to be the people we are today. So sadly, the JGA fades because they can’t physically exist. But yes, I will always say, our heroes are real.
Whew! Enough deepness.
Fantastic coverage of those excellent episodes, C&C and Xum. This was likewise one of my favorites as well. Thank you!
Very nicely put Tim. And yes, these characters do seem real. And when they are portrayed in ways we don’t feel are “right” it is often hard to swallow, and much teeth-gnashing and blogging ensues. Ray being the fanboy he was, recreated his heroes perfectly, to the point where he couldn’t even control them!
Exactly. Thank you, Chris.
I really enjoyed the coverage of the episode.
Does anyone know how Roy Thomas felt about being cast as the “villain” of the piece?
Good question! I should get his personal friend Ryan Daly to ask him! 😉
I heard Xum on two podcasts last week. As much as I enjoy his “Done In One Wondershow,” it was a treat to hear him at his ease just chatting. One must not pull at the threads of this story at all. Nothing holds it together. However, Tim’s comment above about the “reality” is lovely.
Now for my complaint. I am not on board with Hawkgirl. She appears to me to be insensitive and intolerant. When one finds oneself amidst a different culture, or in another dimension, one should respect the traditions of that culture, even if distasteful. You don’t need an Absorbacon to tell you that.
Yes, while we all love and admire “heavily produced Xum”, but it’s equally nice to hear “Xum Unplugged”. 😉
According to Shag (and I’ll have to take his word on it, since I haven’t read much of this), the JL animated Hawkgirl is heavily based on the incarnation from the Hawkworld mini and ongoing series of the late 80s/early 90s. So since you’re not a fan, I guess you can blame Tim Truman and John Ostrander?
I personally think for this story, we need her to be so bluntly irritated by the casual sexism. Her reaction hangs a lantern on it (no pun intended).
The perfect guest for a great episode. I probably would have liked it better if it HAD been the real JSA, but then I want my JSA to be real and not part of some fantasy world.
I kept hoping the REAL JSA would show up at some point. Of course some of them did in JLU, but we never got the whole team, or the acknowledgement of it existing in the DCAU. But you can head canon it in if you want, I suppose!